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[Odyssey] Ship Resistance Bonuses

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Ocih
Space Mermaids
#881 - 2013-05-21 20:44:31 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Resistance bonuses will always be better as they will help you survive high alpha, where no matter how high your active rep bonus is, if you cannot take the alpha you are dead.


44 pages later and the crux of the problem came up on page one.

Truth is, 5% won't make any difference because they will alpha you down anyway. The only difference will be did a gun or a drone get the last shot in.
John 1135
#882 - 2013-05-21 20:52:21 UTC
To mare wrote:
Major Thrasher wrote:
Can't help but notice everything is getting dps increase and little to negative tanking to compensate.

anyone else sensing a ISK sink to try stabilize the eve economy, and reduce inflation ?

you have no idea of what is a isk sink.
plus tank got much much bigger buffs in the past than what gank its getting now

The tin-foil hattery is weak in these ones. Navy is the new black.

Ships bought with LP+ISK really are an ISK sink.

Fin.
Hagika
Standard Corp 123
#883 - 2013-05-21 22:39:11 UTC
Shade Alidiana wrote:
Can't say I like this, my navy scorp fit might suffer a bit. This separates pve and pvp ships even further, considering rokh and abaddon's already not the most powerful defence/offence when it comes to long-term solo fights, but there's always a load of other ships to choose from... And it probably will make drake not that much like a BS. It might need some love then, though (IMO).



Its ok though... the Alpha fleet champ Maelstrom will go untouched..Devs probably hated the fact the Abaddon and Rokh lasted longer than they wanted it too against the Mael
Mathias Orsen
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#884 - 2013-05-21 22:46:24 UTC
This one really burns me. Appearently, in CCP's eyes, if they ignore the negative feedback then there might as well not be any. Like it or not, right or wrong, if the change is made, people will learn to live with it.

My proposition is this, if a resistance bonus is considered overpowered it should be removed completely and replaced with a bonus that is not overpowered.

Give the gila and rattlesnake a missile damage bonus.
Give the Abaddon an optimal range or tracking bonus.
Give the Rohk a Damage bonus.
Give the maller and prophecy a weapon damage bonus.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#885 - 2013-05-22 02:53:41 UTC
Cearain wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:

This affects 44 ships total.

Shield:
Ibis, Taipan, Merlin, Worm, Harpy, Cambion, Moa, Gila, Eagle, Onyx, Broadsword, Drake, Ferox, Nighthawk, Vulture, Tengu, Loki, Skiff, Mackinaw, Hulk, Rokh, Scorpion Navy Issue, Rattlesnake, Chimera, Wyvern.

Armor:
Impairor, Punisher, Vengeance, Malice, Malediction, Maller, Sacrilege, Mimir, Vangel, Devoter, Phobos, Prophecy, Absolution, Damnation, Loki, Legion, Proteus, Abaddon, Archon, Aeon.

While the majority of ships on this list rank among the more powerful in their classes, some (like the Eagle, Nighthawk and Vulture for instance) are already suffering. Those ships have problems that we believe to be separate from their resistance bonuses, and we are working hard to resolve those problems in the near future. Having the resistance bonus in a more balanced place will make our path to improving those ships much clearer.




I don't think most of the ships on this list are overpowered therefore I do not think nerfing them across the board is a good idea. If the eagle nighthawk and vulture are underpowered then leave the resists at 5%.

The problem with buffing them in other ways is it reduces the variety. You will likely buff them by giving them the same bonuses you gave other ships like turrent bonuses reducing the variety. Leave the 5% resist bonus on ships that are not overpowered.



An example of this would be the merlin. It got made to be more similar to the incursus with the turret bonus as the incursus. Currently a merlin is just worse than an incursus. Now the imbalances will be widened.

Worm is just worse than the dram or daredevil now the imbalance is just widened.

Punisher is just worse than just about all the major frigates now that imbalance is widened.

Harpy is worse than the ishkur, hawk wolf and jag and now that imbalance is widened.

Moa is weaker than rupture, vexor and thorax and now that imbalance is widened.

Do I even need to talk about the eagle??

Maybe just nerf the few ships that appear overpowered like the vengeance rokh abaddon archon and aeon?

The other ships are not overpowered and are often already outlcassed.



Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Buhhdust Princess
Mind Games.
Suddenly Spaceships.
#886 - 2013-05-22 09:29:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Buhhdust Princess
Another day, another post ignored by CCP.

If you aren't ignoring this, just delete this thread, and pretend it NEVER happened, EVER.

Worst idea since blue cheese, and frankly that's disgusting.

All seriousness though, a LOT of people are saying this is a bad idea CCP. Now, I appreciate you don't want to look like the community is over ruling everything you say, and want to appear in control etc, but c'mon. This is probably one of the most insignificant, ******** nerfs you've ever thought of.

Can I just ask who actually first mentioned this? If it was Fozzie/Rise, you guys must've been fairly wrecked when you suggested it. If it was some dev that's never actually played EVE properly before, kill them. Seriously.
CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#887 - 2013-05-22 10:25:47 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Fozzie
I've never stopped reading this thread, I have it open every day to keep an eye on new posts. I am very interested in what people have to say, but that's not the same thing as designing by straw poll.

I'm also primarily looking at arguments made, not frequency of posting. So volume doesn't get you some kind of advantage Buhhdust. The honest truth is that if we had seen a convincing argument for why this change is a bad idea we would have been open to adjustments as always, but at the end of the day we need to make the best decisions we can for EVE's balance and sometimes that means disagreeing with a subset of passionate players.

Also this idea originated with me, so if you want to give someone death threats I'm your huckleberry.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie
Mathias Orsen
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#888 - 2013-05-22 10:46:12 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
I've never stopped reading this thread, I have it open every day to keep an eye on new posts. I am very interested in what people have to say, but that's not the same thing as designing by straw poll.

I'm also primarily looking at arguments made, not frequency of posting. So volume doesn't get you some kind of advantage Buhhdust. The honest truth is that if we had seen a convincing argument for why this change is a bad idea we would have been open to adjustments as always, but at the end of the day we need to make the best decisions we can for EVE's balance and sometimes that means disagreeing with a subset of passionate players.

Also this idea originated with me, so if you want to give someone death threats I'm your huckleberry.



It's your idea. You are already biased toward the idea. I would be like giving someone a convincing argument to why they shouldn't burn kittens. Good idea or bad, it's not gonna break the game. People aren't gonna quit EVE over it. People aren't gonna stop flying Moas. It's something to deal with.
Seth Asthereun
Blank-Space
Northern Coalition.
#889 - 2013-05-22 10:46:39 UTC
You didn't answer the most important concern. what will happen with ships that will get unbalanced but have their "class" already gone under the balance hammer?
CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#890 - 2013-05-22 10:48:41 UTC
Seth Asthereun wrote:
You didn't answer the most important concern. what will happen with ships that will get unbalanced but have their "class" already gone under the balance hammer?



We don't stop working on a ship after we've balanced it once. We'll keep making changes as needed to any and every ship.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie
Jonas Sukarala
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#891 - 2013-05-22 10:54:45 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Seth Asthereun wrote:
You didn't answer the most important concern. what will happen with ships that will get unbalanced but have their "class" already gone under the balance hammer?



We don't stop working on a ship after we've balanced it once. We'll keep making changes as needed to any and every ship.


Is the drake under consideration for a nerf yet? :P
Also you will have to fix the tempest if you release it as it is

'Tech3 ships need to be put down, like a rabid dog drooling everywhere in the house, they are out of line' CCP Ytterbium Nerf missile range into place where is the TD missile change?  ..projectiles should use capacitor. ABC's should be T2 HABC and nerf web strength its still too high

Doddy
Excidium.
#892 - 2013-05-22 11:20:01 UTC
Zloco Crendraven wrote:
Marlona Sky wrote:
Zloco Crendraven wrote:
5% resist bonus ships are great anti blob ships. It is one of the few things that gives u any chance against a blob.
The problem is that the blob can bring that 5% resist ship too, right?
Yes, but the real problem is the accessibility of those ships.
T1 hulls are easy accessible to everyone and having blobs fly with T1 5% resist ships is the real problem.

The conclusion is to leave 5% resist bonuses to T2, T3 hulls and capitals and remove them from T1 hulls.
Why T2, T3 and capitals? Well u diminish the blob by alot if u decide to go out with T2, T3 or capital ships.

Resist bonuses need to stay in the game. That bonus is great to show out some skill and compete with blobs.

Right, because you know the blob never uses those 5% resist ships either... Roll


Read again pls!


You do realise that the "blobbers" fly archon fleets, tengu fleets, loki fleets, zealot fleets, navy apoc fleets, maesltrom fleets, titan fleets and tornado fleets, not one of which is a t1 ship with a resist bonus. The more sp a player has the more likely he is to be in a blob.

Anyway in what way does using an overpowered bonus show "skill"?
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#893 - 2013-05-22 11:20:37 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
I've never stopped reading this thread, I have it open every day to keep an eye on new posts. I am very interested in what people have to say, but that's not the same thing as designing by straw poll.

I'm also primarily looking at arguments made, not frequency of posting. So volume doesn't get you some kind of advantage Buhhdust. The honest truth is that if we had seen a convincing argument for why this change is a bad idea we would have been open to adjustments as always, but at the end of the day we need to make the best decisions we can for EVE's balance and sometimes that means disagreeing with a subset of passionate players.

Also this idea originated with me, so if you want to give someone death threats I'm your huckleberry.


You're seriously nerfing my eagle and ferox. Why would you do that? They're already awful. Could you perhaps not do the change on ships that are currently terrible, then do it when you get around to making them good?
Hannott Thanos
Squadron 15
#894 - 2013-05-22 11:25:08 UTC
TrouserDeagle wrote:

You're seriously nerfing my eagle and ferox. Why would you do that? They're already awful. Could you perhaps not do the change on ships that are currently terrible, then do it when you get around to making them good?

So you are saying that my 1500m/s, 855 DPS, 64k EHP post Odyssey Ferox is bad?

Notsureifseriousorbad.jpd

while (CurrentSelectedTarget.Status == ShipStatus.Alive) {

     _myShip.FireAllGuns(CurrentSelectedTarget);

}
Jureth22
State War Academy
Caldari State
#895 - 2013-05-22 11:31:42 UTC
no.keep the 5%
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#896 - 2013-05-22 11:43:31 UTC
Hannott Thanos wrote:
TrouserDeagle wrote:

You're seriously nerfing my eagle and ferox. Why would you do that? They're already awful. Could you perhaps not do the change on ships that are currently terrible, then do it when you get around to making them good?

So you are saying that my 1500m/s, 855 DPS, 64k EHP post Odyssey Ferox is bad?

Notsureifseriousorbad.jpd


links and thermodynamics are good, not your ferox, also lol @ blasters on caldari
Hannott Thanos
Squadron 15
#897 - 2013-05-22 11:48:31 UTC
TrouserDeagle wrote:
Hannott Thanos wrote:
TrouserDeagle wrote:

You're seriously nerfing my eagle and ferox. Why would you do that? They're already awful. Could you perhaps not do the change on ships that are currently terrible, then do it when you get around to making them good?

So you are saying that my 1500m/s, 855 DPS, 64k EHP post Odyssey Ferox is bad?

Notsureifseriousorbad.jpd


links and thermodynamics are good, not your ferox, also lol @ blasters on caldari

No links. Solo, no implants, just skill.

while (CurrentSelectedTarget.Status == ShipStatus.Alive) {

     _myShip.FireAllGuns(CurrentSelectedTarget);

}
Seth Asthereun
Blank-Space
Northern Coalition.
#898 - 2013-05-22 12:08:42 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Seth Asthereun wrote:
You didn't answer the most important concern. what will happen with ships that will get unbalanced but have their "class" already gone under the balance hammer?



We don't stop working on a ship after we've balanced it once. We'll keep making changes as needed to any and every ship.


That's partially true. And even if that was true why mess up with ships that were supposed to be balanced (in none of the previous balance iterations was mentioned a shield resist bonus nerf), releasing them in this state and only after balance them again.
That is not an efficient to work: not from a player side that has to deal with an ongoing change on the same ships, neither for ccp that has to do the same homework 2 times.

Sorry again for my english
TinkerHell
Nocturnal Romance
Cynosural Field Theory.
#899 - 2013-05-22 12:09:58 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Seth Asthereun wrote:
You didn't answer the most important concern. what will happen with ships that will get unbalanced but have their "class" already gone under the balance hammer?



We don't stop working on a ship after we've balanced it once. We'll keep making changes as needed to any and every ship.



You are going to fix the AT ships you are nerfing with this resist nerf? I don't care that they don't get buffed, you have more important stuff to balance, by why nerf them? Leave them alone.
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#900 - 2013-05-22 12:19:00 UTC
If our feedback matters at all... Why don't you explain why this nerf to 44 different ships is needed? Ship by ship. Honestly, if you proposed this nerf to a handful of ships (e.g. The Abaddon, Archon, and Prophecy), you'd see about 80% less rage. It's the broad and apparently lazy manner of this nerf that causes the rage. Why do hictors need a nerf right now?

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.