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Dev Blog: Reinventing the Radial Menu for Odyssey

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indiana bones
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#61 - 2013-05-21 17:57:31 UTC
Can you spam click on targets with it?
Zand Vor
OpSec.
Wrong Hole.
#62 - 2013-05-21 18:03:56 UTC
Trebor Daehdoow wrote:
MainDrain wrote:
The ability to select an item via the radial menu using a number key could also be useful for the default actions.

Keys around the S for righties, Keys around the Numpad-5 for lefties.



Just make it key-mappable like everything else.

Suddenly I have a use again for the 12 buttons on my Naga Epic (since I quit WoW).

Make it so!

Please fix wormhole combat sites: c1 20mil - c2 40 mil - c3 80 mil - c4 160 mil - c5 320 mil - c6 640 mil
CCP karkur
C C P
C C P Alliance
#63 - 2013-05-21 18:04:19 UTC
Darnok Iksnibiks wrote:
Does the radial menu sense context on what I want to click in space? Or, I need to hit and hover L-click exactly on icon I want to interact with? Biggest pain with old/current menu was to hit moving objects... Particularly frigs/inties... Or any item in space from MWD frig perspective.

Additionally, how many sub-menus on 3 o'clock "+" button I need to dig, til I can warp to moon/POCO at 100km, when pointing on planet or empty space? By r-click menu its like : r click --> planets --> moons --> warp at --> 100km when pointing anywhere in space. When clicking on planet itself, it's one step less, but still few to many.

With regards

The picking in space is the same, but you can use the new one in your overview and on targets too.
To warp to a moon at 100 km, click on it, get the radial menu, go to the warp option and drag the mouse out to set the range.

CCP karkur | Programmer | Team Five 0 | @CCP_karkur
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#64 - 2013-05-21 18:06:56 UTC
Shiuri wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
The top most button is the one most often used on that particular type of object.

How often do you "View in Planet Mode" when you're out in hostile space? Because when I highlight a planet in my overview the last thing I want to do is view the ************ in Planet Mode.

Ranger 1 wrote:
The nav buttons are at the 4 corners of the wheel. Putting them right next to each other as you suggest is an incredibly bad idea.

The current radial menu has them next to each other and it's a much better scheme than the new scattered format.

To interact with the planet you will either go into planet view, or be wanting to navigate in relation to it. Since the navigation menus are consistantly in the corners of the wheel (not "scattered all over") this is exactly the placement most people would prefer.

One of the main problems with the current menus that it is too easy to hit the wrong "button" as similar functions are located right next to each other. Similar controls in a radial menu need consistancy in placement, and separation of similar easily confused options.

Any UI designer in the business will be happy to support that assertion.

If you can't get a handle on the logic of the placement of the nav buttons, perhaps you should stick to the right click menu. It's really not that difficult of a concept.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Darvaleth Sigma
Imperial Security Hegemony
#65 - 2013-05-21 18:15:09 UTC
CCP karkur wrote:
Darvaleth Sigma wrote:
Sorry if it's been answered already (tl;dr), but will the old-fashioned right-click menus still have all the same options as now? Or will the ones on the radial menu be forcibly divorced from the right-click menu we all know and love, plunging us into the abysmal depths of despair and destitute mental poverty?

I'm not saying the radial menu won't be a good thing (not at all), but for people who want to keep it as it is (and there will be a lot of them), will CCP support this?

we are not touching the right click menu Big smile


I love you. Have my children.

Give a man a match and you warm him for a day.

Set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life!
Darnok Iksnibiks
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#66 - 2013-05-21 18:21:10 UTC
CCP karkur wrote:
Darnok Iksnibiks wrote:
Does the radial menu sense context on what I want to click in space? Or, I need to hit and hover L-click exactly on icon I want to interact with? Biggest pain with old/current menu was to hit moving objects... Particularly frigs/inties... Or any item in space from MWD frig perspective.

Additionally, how many sub-menus on 3 o'clock "+" button I need to dig, til I can warp to moon/POCO at 100km, when pointing on planet or empty space? By r-click menu its like : r click --> planets --> moons --> warp at --> 100km when pointing anywhere in space. When clicking on planet itself, it's one step less, but still few to many.

With regards

The picking in space is the same, but you can use the new one in your overview and on targets too.
To warp to a moon at 100 km, click on it, get the radial menu, go to the warp option and drag the mouse out to set the range.


Thanks for fast reply!

I understand that menu will pop up with appropriate option to warp at range, should i use it on moon itself.

I asked specifically about clicking in empty space/planets, because I personally don't have moon symbols in space or in my overview (Due to shear number of those. Similarly for asteroid belts). That's why I manage those instances from planet/empty space level. Will it be possible to do so via new menu or I will have to stick with old r-click one?
mynnna
State War Academy
Caldari State
#67 - 2013-05-21 18:24:16 UTC
Dirk Space wrote:
How do you turn off the radial menu?

I stopped playing for a year when I was forced to use the integrated inventory UI, which still causes me headaches, but came back because I missed the social side.

I, reluctantly, have to use the integrated inventory UI, I do not want to be forced to use a system that is not what is best for me but developers think is.

Please make sure that this is optional.

Also, please revert back to the old inventory UI.


I have been busy the entire term (so like, two weeks now!) advocating for an all text UI, just for you and the rest of the "let me disable everything" crowd.

Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal
Hevlikn Ilunar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#68 - 2013-05-21 18:29:53 UTC
mynnna wrote:
Dirk Space wrote:
How do you turn off the radial menu?

I stopped playing for a year when I was forced to use the integrated inventory UI, which still causes me headaches, but came back because I missed the social side.

I, reluctantly, have to use the integrated inventory UI, I do not want to be forced to use a system that is not what is best for me but developers think is.

Please make sure that this is optional.

Also, please revert back to the old inventory UI.


I have been busy the entire term (so like, two weeks now!) advocating for an all text UI, just for you and the rest of the "let me disable everything" crowd.


EVE Online: MUDdier than ever
Gnoshia
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#69 - 2013-05-21 18:37:27 UTC
Just like the old radial menu I won't use this new one not a single time. Not even once.

While it's great that you're looking to do away with right click menus and windows, this new radial menu is utterly useless like the old one.

o7
Shiuri
#70 - 2013-05-21 18:37:29 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
One of the main problems with the current menus that it is too easy to hit the wrong "button" as similar functions are located right next to each other. Similar controls in a radial menu need consistancy in placement, and separation of similar easily confused options.

One of the main problems with the current menus is that it is entirely too easy to click the "wrong" button because buttons that do something entirely different from what you want done are in illogical places, like right next to buttons that do what you want done. This is not changing with the new radial menu. Grouping items that do similar things is natural, scattering them to the four winds is confusing.

Ranger 1 wrote:
If you can't get a handle on the logic of the placement of the nav buttons, perhaps you should stick to the right click menu. It's really not that difficult of a concept.

No ****, right? That's exactly what I said in my OP that you decided to take issue with. How about you just let it go because I'm airing my grievances to CCP in a comments thread. Thanks.
Ines Tegator
Serious Business Inc. Ltd. LLC. etc.
#71 - 2013-05-21 19:14:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Ines Tegator
Does this mean I can double click in space and have my ship actually move like I told it to, without an obnoxiously placed popup menu showing up?

Yay.

I am officially upgrading EVE's UI certification to "Meets Standards Set In 2008." That's a 3 year upgrade. Good job. But don't get lazy :P

Overhaul Dscan!
Sir Livingston
Doomheim
#72 - 2013-05-21 19:15:43 UTC
Well you already know what I think of it.
Don't you, CCP Sharq Blink

Well done

Sci-fi games as played by an earthbound human in the 21st century http://www.youtube.com/JonnyPew
IceDe4d
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#73 - 2013-05-21 19:21:58 UTC
the new menu freezed for about 2-3 seconds every time i opened it dont know if it is fixxed allready but its very nice and if everybody can customize it how they want it it will be epic.
CCP Sharq
C C P
C C P Alliance
#74 - 2013-05-21 19:54:11 UTC
Sir Livingston wrote:
Well you already know what I think of it.
Don't you, CCP Sharq Blink

Well done


Yep! Your review explained the radial menu pretty well. Keep up the good work!

EVE UI Designer | Team Psycho Sisters | @CCP_Sharq
Dersen Lowery
The Scope
#75 - 2013-05-21 20:11:02 UTC
mynnna wrote:
I have been busy the entire term (so like, two weeks now!) advocating for an all text UI, just for you and the rest of the "let me disable everything" crowd.


Give me the ability to customize in-game objects with MUSHcode and I'll be fat and happy in 1998 again.

Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.

I voted in CSM X!
Shiuri
#76 - 2013-05-21 20:12:45 UTC
Something that would make the new radial menu much more palatable, to me at least, would be the option to rotate it 45 degrees clockwise. This puts the navigation buttons at the cardinal points which results in much more natural mouse movements to access the more desirable actions. Dragging out the Warp-To, for instance, would feel "easier".
CCP Sharq
C C P
C C P Alliance
#77 - 2013-05-21 20:12:47 UTC
indiana bones wrote:
Can you spam click on targets with it?


Sort of, but I think using shortcuts (CTRL+Click) does that better

EVE UI Designer | Team Psycho Sisters | @CCP_Sharq
Tequila Breeze
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#78 - 2013-05-21 20:29:49 UTC
What would be really cool with this radial menu system, would be to allow us the players to bind in what ever commands you want into it, Don't like the ones that are there, replace them with your own.

Dirk Space
Solar Dragons
#79 - 2013-05-21 20:38:55 UTC
CCP karkur wrote:
Dirk Space wrote:
How do you turn off the radial menu?

I stopped playing for a year when I was forced to use the integrated inventory UI, which still causes me headaches, but came back because I missed the social side.

I, reluctantly, have to use the integrated inventory UI, I do not want to be forced to use a system that is not what is best for me but developers think is.

Please make sure that this is optional.

Also, please revert back to the old inventory UI.

It's not going to be "optional", but will be able to map it to a different mouse button, and change the delay so you can kind of disable it yourself... but I hope you do give it a chance for at least 1 day Smile


Thank you for your response. I am not advocating a moratorium on development in eve but you need to keep in mind that people started playing this game with the current controls and have succesfully managed to play the game for many years without issue. Playing with the factors that make eve, eve, will cause problems.

I will try it. Like i tried the integrated inventory and persevered. I still go to click on the bottom of the station panel to access corp hangar. How I expect a POS silo to open up in a non-confusing single window so that I can do my POS work without it feeling like a drudge.

I am open-minded enough to give it a go but if I don't like it, if it ruins my eve experience like the integrated inventory did, what then?

mynnna wrote:

I have been busy the entire term (so like, two weeks now!) advocating for an all text UI, just for you and the rest of the "let me disable everything" crowd.


You forgot the sarcasm quotes. Sarcasm doesn't translate very well into text.

A little information on what other forms of UI have been considered, what options are available, how you, me or anyone else would like to interact with eve would have been nice.

This is a big change, it may be a change for the better but why do I feel that I HAVE to conform?

Compelling people to change how they perform any type of action is the surefire way of making sure they wont change willingly.
CCP karkur
C C P
C C P Alliance
#80 - 2013-05-21 20:55:32 UTC
Dirk Space wrote:
I am open-minded enough to give it a go but if I don't like it, if it ruins my eve experience like the integrated inventory did, what then?
Thanks for keeping an open mind Smile

If you don't like it, bind it to one of the extra mouse buttons and set a long delay, and I'm sure it won't be in your way.
You could also just bind it to he left button and have a long delay, and then it shouldn't be in your way, but you could bring it up if you want it (either by using the shortcut to bypass the delay or wait it out).

We should at least not panic right now Smile
Try it out on Sisi if you guys get a chance. I have checked in the mousebutton binding and delay change, but I am not sure when Sisi will be updated, but probably either tomorrow or the next day.

I have never used the radial menu we have on TQ today, but when I was playing on TQ over the weekend, I was really missing my new radial menu when I was jumping through gates and docking and stuff Smile

CCP karkur | Programmer | Team Five 0 | @CCP_karkur