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Dev Blog: Reinventing the Radial Menu for Odyssey

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Dirk Space
Solar Dragons
#41 - 2013-05-21 16:48:22 UTC
How do you turn off the radial menu?

I stopped playing for a year when I was forced to use the integrated inventory UI, which still causes me headaches, but came back because I missed the social side.

I, reluctantly, have to use the integrated inventory UI, I do not want to be forced to use a system that is not what is best for me but developers think is.

Please make sure that this is optional.

Also, please revert back to the old inventory UI.
CCP karkur
C C P
C C P Alliance
#42 - 2013-05-21 16:51:06 UTC
Dirk Space wrote:
How do you turn off the radial menu?

I stopped playing for a year when I was forced to use the integrated inventory UI, which still causes me headaches, but came back because I missed the social side.

I, reluctantly, have to use the integrated inventory UI, I do not want to be forced to use a system that is not what is best for me but developers think is.

Please make sure that this is optional.

Also, please revert back to the old inventory UI.

It's not going to be "optional", but will be able to map it to a different mouse button, and change the delay so you can kind of disable it yourself... but I hope you do give it a chance for at least 1 day Smile

CCP karkur | Programmer | Team Five 0 | @CCP_karkur

Yankunytjatjara
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#43 - 2013-05-21 16:55:05 UTC
Is there an option to deactivate the radial menu completely?
If not, could you add it?
It gets in the way of my user experience for example, when trying to double click in space close to something big, to go the direction I want that happens to be hidden by said big thing, and opens up.

My solo pvp video: Yankunytjude... That attitude! Solo/small gang proposal: Ship Velocity Vectors

Yankunytjatjara
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#44 - 2013-05-21 16:56:08 UTC
CCP karkur wrote:
It's not going to be "optional", but will be able to map it to a different mouse button, and change the delay so you can kind of disable it yourself... but I hope you do give it a chance for at least 1 day Smile

Please do make it optional, it's just an additional checkbox in the settings and a check in the code, and you'll please many a bittervet!

My solo pvp video: Yankunytjude... That attitude! Solo/small gang proposal: Ship Velocity Vectors

Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#45 - 2013-05-21 17:01:35 UTC
Yankunytjatjara wrote:
CCP karkur wrote:
It's not going to be "optional", but will be able to map it to a different mouse button, and change the delay so you can kind of disable it yourself... but I hope you do give it a chance for at least 1 day Smile

Please do make it optional, it's just an additional checkbox in the settings and a check in the code, and you'll please many a bittervet!

Ahhh, if only life was actually this simplistic.

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Olaf4862
Dragoon Industries Limited
#46 - 2013-05-21 17:04:01 UTC
It seems like the big complaint is not the menu itself but how fast it appears. I think having the option to adjust the delay may not be good as it just adds a layer of complexity most players will not use or just create more confusion over the feature.
Instead just make it a fixed time. I bet 1.5 secs would feel about right as most players can click on something quickly but that would be a long enough delay to make it feel like its booting up the radial menu vrs just selecting something in space with a left click.

Also id say radial menu everything. In station even more so as item management and ship stuff is a pain enough as is with the right click menu id love a quick click radial menu to save time in station.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#47 - 2013-05-21 17:06:56 UTC
Shiuri wrote:
CCP karkur wrote:
They are... at this very moment I'm changing it so you can map it to any of the mouse buttons and also change the delay Big smile

This is good because the more I try to use it, the less I want to use it. The layout of the buttons is sub-optimal at best. The Primary Action button is in the top-most position and it is generally the button you least want to hit in a stressful situation, the navigation buttons are thrown all over the place... I've said this elsewhere but I would suggest moving the Primary Action button somewhere else and having the target or approach/align button at the top, with all the navigation buttons next to each other like the current radial menu.

The top most button is the one most often used on that particular type of object.

The nav buttons are at the 4 corners of the wheel. Putting them right next to each other as you suggest is an incredibly bad idea.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#48 - 2013-05-21 17:08:40 UTC
CCP karkur wrote:
It's not going to be "optional", but will be able to map it to a different mouse button, and change the delay so you can kind of disable it yourself... but I hope you do give it a chance for at least 1 day Smile


What we really need is mouses with more buttons! Mine has 5. Perhaps we could remap "pan the camera" to a different mouse button?

It would also be nice if brackets "near" the mouse cursor would be immune to shuffling for a short while, similar to the way the overview will not shift items around while the mouse is within its borders with the Ctrl key held down.
Hevlikn Ilunar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#49 - 2013-05-21 17:19:47 UTC
Having been doing large amounts of testing with the current Odyssey patch on Sisi I have a few comments, first however, i shall put things into perspective.

I currently run eve at it's lowest graphics settings, with all options but "effects" disabled, and with the current build on TQ i get a nice constant 20fps, even at the peak of a ~200 man battle. This works well for me, and has for the last 2 years.

As it stands, the features implemented with odyssey break my little world of happy compromises, making me want to rip my own eyes out rather than suffer the lag further. I notice, of all the things, the radial menu is the worst. I have absolute confidence that CCP will do further optimisation, however radial menus are not, and never will be, practical in a high demand situation such as a fleet battle, or a high pressure situation, such as the Alliance tournament.

Goodness knows what'll happen if you make the titan jump/bridge menu a radial.




Chokichi Ozuwara
Perkone
Caldari State
#50 - 2013-05-21 17:21:42 UTC
CCP karkur wrote:
but I hope you do give it a chance for at least 1 day Smile

It's really, really bad UI tho.

Tears will be shed and pants will need to be changed all round.

Warde Guildencrantz
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#51 - 2013-05-21 17:23:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Warde Guildencrantz
Chokichi Ozuwara wrote:
CCP karkur wrote:
but I hope you do give it a chance for at least 1 day Smile

It's really, really bad UI tho.


the whole UI is terrible now because people can't double click in space near an object...that train of thought doesn't make much sense

however CCP Karkur, this menu really shouldn't interfere with concentration or quickness of pvp reflexes and manual piloting of the ship

TunDraGon ~ Low sec piracy since 2003 ~ Youtube ~ Join Us

Darvaleth Sigma
Imperial Security Hegemony
#52 - 2013-05-21 17:27:30 UTC
Sorry if it's been answered already (tl;dr), but will the old-fashioned right-click menus still have all the same options as now? Or will the ones on the radial menu be forcibly divorced from the right-click menu we all know and love, plunging us into the abysmal depths of despair and destitute mental poverty?

I'm not saying the radial menu won't be a good thing (not at all), but for people who want to keep it as it is (and there will be a lot of them), will CCP support this?

Give a man a match and you warm him for a day.

Set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life!

Merouk Baas
#53 - 2013-05-21 17:34:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Merouk Baas
I'll tell you what, a big part of Odyssey for me will be this: If you make this radial menu mandatory and take away my ability to turn it off I will ******* cancel my subscription on the spot.

EDIT: I see Karkur's reply above. **** you.
CCP karkur
C C P
C C P Alliance
#54 - 2013-05-21 17:38:21 UTC
Darvaleth Sigma wrote:
Sorry if it's been answered already (tl;dr), but will the old-fashioned right-click menus still have all the same options as now? Or will the ones on the radial menu be forcibly divorced from the right-click menu we all know and love, plunging us into the abysmal depths of despair and destitute mental poverty?

I'm not saying the radial menu won't be a good thing (not at all), but for people who want to keep it as it is (and there will be a lot of them), will CCP support this?

we are not touching the right click menu Big smile

CCP karkur | Programmer | Team Five 0 | @CCP_karkur

Barr Kola
Byers Road
#55 - 2013-05-21 17:38:49 UTC
i tried the rad. ui, and hated it, felt very slow and awkward to use, and as for giving mouse buttons, what about us mortals that just have a standard mouse, I wouldnt call the wheel on it a button, and why is this not being made optional? Feels like working in trecale
Gogela
Epic Ganking Time
CODE.
#56 - 2013-05-21 17:38:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Gogela
Ugh so many complaints! Not from me though... I love it. I'd love to have radial menus wherever possible! Maybe you could retain certain right click menus as an option... but for instance when I'm looking in corp or fleet chat and someone pops a cyno I'd much rather be able to click on the cyno char and have "jump to" as an option, instead of hitting R-click and sifting trough the zillion interaction options. "Remove character from corp?" That's not an option I would choose very often... "Jump to member?" Use it all the time. Surely the devs can sift through the most often used options and put them in a radial menu. There's a ton of places that could be applied and save us all valuable seconds in hot situations (like jumping).

+9001 for radial menus.

Signatures should be used responsibly...

blazegryph
Corpy Hooves
#57 - 2013-05-21 17:46:42 UTC
CCP karkur wrote:
Darvaleth Sigma wrote:
Sorry if it's been answered already (tl;dr), but will the old-fashioned right-click menus still have all the same options as now? Or will the ones on the radial menu be forcibly divorced from the right-click menu we all know and love, plunging us into the abysmal depths of despair and destitute mental poverty?

I'm not saying the radial menu won't be a good thing (not at all), but for people who want to keep it as it is (and there will be a lot of them), will CCP support this?

we are not touching the right click menu Big smile



Then am happy .. was fearing this cr*p of radial menus was going to replace old good rightclick menuses. And i LOVE my old-fashioned rightclick menuses.
Shiuri
#58 - 2013-05-21 17:47:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Shiuri
Ranger 1 wrote:
The top most button is the one most often used on that particular type of object.

How often do you "View in Planet Mode" when you're out in hostile space? Because when I highlight a planet in my overview the last thing I want to do is view the ************ in Planet Mode.

Ranger 1 wrote:
The nav buttons are at the 4 corners of the wheel. Putting them right next to each other as you suggest is an incredibly bad idea.

The current radial menu has them next to each other and it's a much better scheme than the new scattered format.
Darnok Iksnibiks
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#59 - 2013-05-21 17:50:41 UTC
Does the radial menu sense context on what I want to click in space? Or, I need to hit and hover L-click exactly on icon I want to interact with? Biggest pain with old/current menu was to hit moving objects... Particularly frigs/inties... Or any item in space from MWD frig perspective.

Additionally, how many sub-menus on 3 o'clock "+" button I need to dig, til I can warp to moon/POCO at 100km, when pointing on planet or empty space? By r-click menu its like : r click --> planets --> moons --> warp at --> 100km when pointing anywhere in space. When clicking on planet itself, it's one step less, but still few to many.

With regards
C DeLeon
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#60 - 2013-05-21 17:54:17 UTC  |  Edited by: C DeLeon
I'm part of the minority who already used the radial menu (because I'm lazy and 1 click is better then 2 for the same result) so I'm happy for this. Especially that we can use it on the overview.

It would be great if we would be able to use a similar radial menu to set up directional scanner range and angle with mouse movement.

(and fix inventionAttention)