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Intergalactic Summit

 
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So... where is Admiral Yanala?

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Sakura Nihil
Faded Light
#61 - 2013-05-20 21:46:11 UTC
Give her a medal?

For what, not committing genocide? If that's how low the bar is these days, I'd like to mention I didn't have any meat this morning, do I get a medal for keeping some livestock alive?

Glory

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Stitcher
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#62 - 2013-05-20 22:53:20 UTC
For keeping her head and making the best of a bad situation, rather than permitting it to get worse.

I said it earlier, she was in command of a fleet action that turned into a cluster-everything, and she STILL had the presence of mind to offline or eject systems that would have done catastrophic damage had they remained online.

She remained calm in a situation of extreme stress and distraction and yes, we damn well DO give out medals for that. As well we should.

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders
Theobar Cresthill
The Arzad Hamri Fellowship
#63 - 2013-05-20 22:54:13 UTC
Many would like to hear from Yanala. I know I would very much like to hear an address by the Admiral. I do hope one will be scheduled soon.

"The fire in our hearts burns for salvation, redemption, and grace. May the Word of God grant you the courage to save yourself and your people" (The Last Words of Arzad Hamri)
Makoto Priano
Kirkinen-Arataka Transhuman Zenith Consulting Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#64 - 2013-05-20 23:02:02 UTC
"Citizens are calling for a celebration to be held in Yanala's honor and for the admiral to make a public speech before the people and Chief Executive Panel."

Interesting. I wonder how Heth would view that, considering his desire that the doomsday weapon be used as a sort of extortion defense.

Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#65 - 2013-05-21 01:56:44 UTC
Has anybody tried to locate the Admiral? I have friends in Caldari Navy but not high up enough it seems. I could try my SOE contacts (though Sister Alitura is still miffed about me breaking the docking gantries in Arnon but I had my reasons).

I think that Admiral Yanala is in a cage somewhere or dead, and calls for her appearance will bring out the truth.

And once that truth comes out, it's all up to the Caldari people to right the wrongs. I will be ready to stand with them when that time comes, because the end of any tyranny is always a good thing.

Mentas Blaque's days are equally numbered. But he is another problem that will run out of time in due time and the memory of the patriots is long indeed.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Fredfredbug4
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#66 - 2013-05-21 03:20:49 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:


And once that truth comes out, it's all up to the Caldari people to right the wrongs. I will be ready to stand with them when that time comes, because the end of any tyranny is always a good thing.


I hate to admit it, but there are just as many people supporting Heth as there are detesting him. When it's time for Heth to go, it won't be the Caldari People vs the Provist it will be the Caldari People vs the Caldari People. We will see a civil war on a scale that will make the Gallente-Caldari war look like a skirmish.

Watch_ Fred Fred Frederation_ and stop [u]cryptozoologist[/u]! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it!
Fredfredbug4
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#67 - 2013-05-21 03:22:47 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:


And once that truth comes out, it's all up to the Caldari people to right the wrongs. I will be ready to stand with them when that time comes, because the end of any tyranny is always a good thing.


I hate to admit it, but there are just as many people supporting Heth as there are detesting him. When it's time for Heth to go, it won't be the Caldari People vs the Provist it will be the Caldari People vs the Caldari People. We will see a civil war on a scale that will make the Gallente-Caldari war look like a skirmish.

Watch_ Fred Fred Frederation_ and stop [u]cryptozoologist[/u]! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it!
Xindi Kraid
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#68 - 2013-05-21 09:15:42 UTC
Diana Kim wrote:
Stitcher wrote:
Considering the glowing commendation of which her actions are deserving, I find her absence from national media... conspicuous. She hasn't been seen or heard from since the battle. I appreciate the need for professional quiet on these occasions, but this is a big PR coup for the navy that its best and highest-ranked are so level-headed.

Turning off main ship weapons during a fight is not what a combat officer should do. Although turning off systems before crashing on a planet is commendable, but disabling main and decisive weapon several minutes before is concerning, if not disturbing.

Firing main weapon on enemy fleet repeatedly can stand between losing and winning the battle. During Caldari Prime defense I didn't pay attention to the titan and actions of Admiral, concentrating on the targets. However, if the investigation will show that oblivion actually was never fired and didn't destroy any of enemy vessels, then Admiral Yanala is in a really big big trouble. And I doubt we would ever hear from her again.

On this I will actually agree with Kim. A doomsday device is a weapon for utterly destroying enemy capital ships, and it was a target rich environment. It should have been fired at the enemy fleet every chance it got. A side effect of this, is also that if the order to fire on the planet were truly given, the fact that the weapon would have still been reloading would have prevented such an order from being carried out.

I will concede, however, that it does depend on what the situation of the Shiigeru was like when the doomsday was taken offline, as it can't be properly safed and off-lined until the post fire cooldown cycle has completed, so if the shields were beginning to collapse under enemy fire, offlining hazardous modules is a good precautionary measure. As long as shields are holding, though, keep firing.

Che Biko wrote:
Stitcher wrote:
[..] this is a big PR coup for the navy that its best and highest-ranked are so level-headed.
Really? If your best officers being able and wise enough to take action to avoid an extinction-level event on your homeworld is considered as such a big deal, it suggests that a lot of those in the Navy might not be so level-headed. Hardly something you could use for positive PR, in my opinion. I think that if Yanala had acted in any other way, she would have been dishonourably discharged and/or not court martialed.

In that light I also find it a tad early to call her absence from media conspicious.

Except the Gallente have spent the last few weeks accusing that very same admiral of preparing to fire on Caldari prime and on multiple occasions gone on and on about how wonderful it was the Gallente Fleet managed to shoot her down before she could do so. In light of such heinous accusations, the Admiral deserves to be vindicated, and the Navy deserves to be vindicated, and the Gallente need to own up to the fact they were wrong in accusing her of such.


Stitcher wrote:
There should be an inquest, certainly. but you don't court martial somebody unless you're accusing them of breaking military law, which would only come about as a result of an inquest.

Disobeying a direct order IS a court martialable offense, if Heth did indeed give the order than fire rather than just threatening to. At the same time, we are taught we can disobey illegal orders and genocide is such an order, so a court martial would quickly exonerate her, if one did take place. Still, a court martial isn't necessarily mandatory even if it is allowed, and given the circumstances, I don't believe one would have taken place.
Stitcher
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#69 - 2013-05-21 11:00:47 UTC
The last I checked, Executor Heth in fact has no formal military rank. He's not the head of the Navy, he's the CEO of a megacorporation. Legally, he was far outside of his authority in ordering the Navy around in the first place.

Or are we just ignoring the fact that the State is not a dictatorship?

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#70 - 2013-05-21 12:33:37 UTC
Xindi Kraid wrote:

Disobeying a direct order IS a court martialable offense, if Heth did indeed give the order than fire rather than just threatening to. At the same time, we are taught we can disobey illegal orders and genocide is such an order, so a court martial would quickly exonerate her, if one did take place. Still, a court martial isn't necessarily mandatory even if it is allowed, and given the circumstances, I don't believe one would have taken place.


Stitcher wrote:
The last I checked, Executor Heth in fact has no formal military rank. He's not the head of the Navy, he's the CEO of a megacorporation. Legally, he was far outside of his authority in ordering the Navy around in the first place.

Or are we just ignoring the fact that the State is not a dictatorship?


Why do you both assume that orders could be only from our Executor?

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
Morwen Lagann
Tyrathlion Interstellar
#71 - 2013-05-21 13:00:33 UTC
Diana Kim wrote:
Why do you both assume that orders could be only from our Executor?


Because nobody else is that damned touched in the head to think it's a good idea.

Only Heth would rather play a scorched earth game despite the presence of State citizens on the ground, than do what needed to be done to actually protect those lives.

He's losing his grip on the State, and instead of accepting it like an adult, he's throwing a temper tantrum and throwing his toys out of the pram.

Morwen Lagann

CEO, Tyrathlion Interstellar

Coordinator, Arataka Research Consortium

Owner, The Golden Masque
Xindi Kraid
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#72 - 2013-05-21 13:31:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Xindi Kraid
Stitcher wrote:
The last I checked, Executor Heth in fact has no formal military rank. He's not the head of the Navy, he's the CEO of a megacorporation. Legally, he was far outside of his authority in ordering the Navy around in the first place.

Or are we just ignoring the fact that the State is not a dictatorship?

Heth treats it like one, and so do the people following him, and he has enough pull to make things happen for people who disagree with him since he has a group totally loyal to him whose sole job is strong-arming people who don't agree.

Also, considering Sami Okuuda was the one who sent the message on behalf of the Navy (according to him) to Caldari loyalists to assist the attempt to interdict SuVee's relief shipment to Caldari Prime against the wishes of the CEP; I can conclude that there are members of the Navy who DO consider it withing Heth's authority to give such an order.

Diana Kim wrote:

Why do you both assume that orders could be only from our Executor?

He's the only one who has ever threatened to have a doomsday weapon fired at Caldari prime.
Caellach Marellus
Stormcrows
#73 - 2013-05-21 15:45:55 UTC
Stitcher wrote:
The last I checked, Executor Heth in fact has no formal military rank. He's not the head of the Navy, he's the CEO of a megacorporation. Legally, he was far outside of his authority in ordering the Navy around in the first place.

Or are we just ignoring the fact that the State is not a dictatorship?


Why not? Tibus Heth sure is.

When your gut instincts tell you something is wrong, trust them. When your heart tells you something is right, ignore it, check with your brain first. Accept nothing, challenge everything.
Stitcher
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#74 - 2013-05-21 16:03:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Stitcher
Honoured are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

Rest with honour, Visera Yanala. You have served your Heiian.

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders
Caellach Marellus
Stormcrows
#75 - 2013-05-21 16:09:07 UTC
Suppose now it's going to be very hard to find out who gave various fire orders throughout the situation.

Pretty damn convenient for that person, I hope the CEP has answers into how such a cloning failure was possible.

When your gut instincts tell you something is wrong, trust them. When your heart tells you something is right, ignore it, check with your brain first. Accept nothing, challenge everything.
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#76 - 2013-05-21 16:12:41 UTC
TOTAL LIE


So many capsuleers getting podded wholesale every day, year after year, and incidents like this are UNHEARD OF!


C'mon Heth, you are good at being a racist and a tyrant, but you need to go back to school on how to lie. I see right through you. And I'm not the only one.


Judgement is coming.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Stitcher
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#77 - 2013-05-21 16:18:37 UTC
Not unheard-of, just exceedingly rare. Let's not allow our biases to dictate our conclusions.

I will admit, Andreus' theory is now less implausible than it seemed this morning. But it's not proven yet.

Cold Wind must blow - stay calm, keep a level head, work with the facts that you KNOW to be true, not the ones you wish to be true. The CEP are investigating, and I will trust their findings.

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders
Evi Polevhia
Phoenix Naval Operations
Phoenix Naval Systems
#78 - 2013-05-21 16:21:00 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
TOTAL LIESo many capsuleers getting podded wholesale every day, year after year, and incidents like this are UNHEARD OF!


Untrue. It is not a 100% survival rate. I am not certain of the numbers but it is very safe, something like 99.97% survival rate? And that's an industry average. Some companies do better then others. You have to not only consider the Capsule working perfectly, but there's also the data transmission going from gate to gate and beacon to beacon as it is broadcast to the med bay your clones are stored at. Then they have to recieve it flawlessly and then implant the memories into the clone flawlessly. And not all clones are of the same quality. Poteque Pharmaceuticals tends to have better quality then Eifyr & Co. for example. So you can optimize your chances, but it's not a -perfect- process. I've heard speculations that even the Jovians did not perfect this process.

Claims that incidents like this are unheard of is propaganda spread by Clone manufacturers and is not true.
Stitcher
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#79 - 2013-05-21 16:28:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Stitcher
It's better than 99.97%. Since YC105, the only other hot-scan failure I could name off the top of my head would be Jirai Laitenen, and that was... what, nine years ago? We've lost other capsuleers in that time, but I don't know that theirs were cloning failures from pod.

So, no. not unheard-of. But rare. Extremely rare.

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders
Caellach Marellus
Stormcrows
#80 - 2013-05-21 16:28:58 UTC
It's entirely possible the Admiral did fall into the 0.03%. There were so many deaths that day that statistically you'd expect one to fail, she could have drawn the short straw.

However it doesn't change the fact someone benefits from this, fair means or foul.

When your gut instincts tell you something is wrong, trust them. When your heart tells you something is right, ignore it, check with your brain first. Accept nothing, challenge everything.