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Dev Blog: Reinventing the Radial Menu for Odyssey

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Shiuri
#21 - 2013-05-21 15:29:32 UTC
CCP karkur wrote:
They are... at this very moment I'm changing it so you can map it to any of the mouse buttons and also change the delay Big smile

This is good because the more I try to use it, the less I want to use it. The layout of the buttons is sub-optimal at best. The Primary Action button is in the top-most position and it is generally the button you least want to hit in a stressful situation, the navigation buttons are thrown all over the place... I've said this elsewhere but I would suggest moving the Primary Action button somewhere else and having the target or approach/align button at the top, with all the navigation buttons next to each other like the current radial menu.
Quintessen
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#22 - 2013-05-21 15:31:42 UTC
Since I can't test it right now, can someone please let me know how certain things work?

Is it still click-and-hold to bring it up?

How do the dynamic distances work for orbit, keep at distance, warp to etc? Do you continue holding and drag them in that direction? Do you let go on the button and then move the right distance and drag again?

One question, I use the left click button all the time to select things? How is that underutilized? I would much rather see this as a full right click replacement rather than a left-click addition.
Smoking Blunts
ZC Omega
#23 - 2013-05-21 15:32:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Smoking Blunts
when I click the scanner button, I want the scanner. not sub menus from the scanner that I have to click to get the scanner open. major annoyance imo

rest of them are ok, slow and laggy and seam to cause the mouse to do random things. I will avoid them like the plage thanks for the effort though

OMG when can i get a pic here
ChromeStriker
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#24 - 2013-05-21 15:33:15 UTC  |  Edited by: ChromeStriker
Darth Sidious wrote:
Your lack of graphs is disturbing...

No Worries
Rengerel en Distel
#25 - 2013-05-21 15:35:24 UTC
Smoking Blunts wrote:
when I click the scanner button, I want the scanner. not sub menus from the scanner that I have to click to get the scanner open. major annoyance imo

rest of them are ok, slow and laggy and seam to cause the mouse to do random things. I will avoid them like the plage thanks for the effort though


The scanner radial menu is a different one, if i recall correctly. That one you still have to click the buttons.

With the increase in shiptoasting, the Report timer needs to be shortened.
Utremi Fasolasi
La Dolce Vita
#26 - 2013-05-21 15:35:58 UTC
In the ship hangar, a radial menu option to go right to the Ship Fitting would be cool.
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#27 - 2013-05-21 15:36:59 UTC
It might be interesting to have the radial menu triggered by keypad-5, with the options mapped to the remaining number buttons. That would make a new world of shortcuts that are inbetween single-purpose Ctrl+Key shortcuts and clicking the mouse for everything.

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Luc Chastot
#28 - 2013-05-21 15:40:18 UTC
I used it and liked it. Now that we have a radial menu for the left mouse click, why not make one for the right? It should be easy to distribute all the options of the right click menu in two distinct radial menus.

Make it idiot-proof and someone will make a better idiot.

Smoking Blunts
ZC Omega
#29 - 2013-05-21 15:41:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Smoking Blunts
Rengerel en Distel wrote:
Smoking Blunts wrote:
when I click the scanner button, I want the scanner. not sub menus from the scanner that I have to click to get the scanner open. major annoyance imo

rest of them are ok, slow and laggy and seam to cause the mouse to do random things. I will avoid them like the plage thanks for the effort though


The scanner radial menu is a different one, if i recall correctly. That one you still have to click the buttons.



you click the button then have to click the sub menu. but that sub menu is the one listed at the top of the scanner window. In my case its the same one as I want open and open and close frequestly, just now I have more buttons to press to get the same thing
its annoying as hell if you just want the last page of the scanner opened again.

many of ccp's current changes are adding more steps into processes and calling it 'making things simpler' when all they are doing is adding more steps. its pretty dumb over all imo

OMG when can i get a pic here
Dersen Lowery
The Scope
#30 - 2013-05-21 15:41:44 UTC
Rengerel en Distel wrote:
The scanner radial menu is a different one, if i recall correctly. That one you still have to click the buttons.


It wouldn't surprise me if that's in the hopper for a point release. Consistent interface is best interface.

Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.

I voted in CSM X!
TheLostPenguin
Surreal Departure
#31 - 2013-05-21 15:47:02 UTC
Sounds interesting, as it stands the radial menu is something I only ever access by mistake, usually in the 'attempting to move camera' scenario, much prefer to use rclick/selected item window for actions as it stands, but willing to see if this leads to it being something I find actually useful.

Just, please please please don't do anything silly like messing with the rclick menus "because you've got this awesome new way to do things", and leave the duplicated functionality there, at the very least it'll take some time to get used to using this and I'm sure plenty will prefer to use rclick menu still at least some of the time, lasy occasion things were changed around in the rclick menu was a pita, with options no longer in the places they'd been forever.
(And yes I know there's no mention of making any such change in the blog, but it's the sort of silly thing that I can see all too likely to occur Sad)
Max Kolonko
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#32 - 2013-05-21 15:49:28 UTC
One huge problem - when holding middle mouse button (my voice activation key) and clicking LMP radial menu opens without delay or even holding mouse button, just clicking on things

I had not set MMP to "radial menu" shortcut (i have none defined) so this should not happen

Read and support: Don't mess with OUR WH's What is Your stance on WH stuff?
Lyta Jhonson
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#33 - 2013-05-21 15:49:31 UTC
As I get it radial menu was redesigned from the scratch but from user point of view it does not differs much from old one. In the sisi feedback thread it was confirmed that current radial menu isn't used much by players. So why do you think new one will be used more? And what is the point in duplicating functions between context and radial menus? Argument about muscule memory does not seem valid as context menu also benefits from it and thinking that context menus are too bloated now should lead to desire to remove unnecesary options from them instead of creating new and alternative radial menu.
CCP karkur
C C P
C C P Alliance
#34 - 2013-05-21 15:53:50 UTC
Max Kolonko wrote:
One huge problem - when holding middle mouse button (my voice activation key) and clicking LMP radial menu opens without delay or even holding mouse button, just clicking on things

I had not set MMP to "radial menu" shortcut (i have none defined) so this should not happen
I think you are talking about a bug that has not been fixed on Sisi (where you used the radial menu shortcut once and it kept acting like it was still down)

CCP karkur | Programmer | Team Five 0 | @CCP_karkur
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#35 - 2013-05-21 15:58:29 UTC
CCP Sharq wrote:
Markus Reese wrote:
Eve had a radial menu?


HAS... Click and hold left mouse button on a bracket in the world-space, radial menu appears.




..... What?

I first made an account in 2005 and i didn't know about this /o\

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#36 - 2013-05-21 16:01:23 UTC
And now for my "haven't even tried it but I don't like it" whine:

In UI design, any modified action must be a sensible extension of the action being modified. Thus the outcome of pressing Shift+A must be something similar to pressing A (in most cases, you get a capital A instead of a lowercase a). The context is important though, since pressing "a" while in a text entry field will result in an "a" appearing in the text entry field, while pressing "a" in a numeric entry field will result in a rude noise from the computer.

The way the radial menu works currently is that you click and hold in space. I don't like this because the reason I'm clicking in space in the first place is to move the camera. Whether the new radial menu resolves the issue of "click just a little bit too long and you end up approaching someone and dropping your gate cloak instead of looking around you to see who is about to shoot you" or not I don't know.

Ideally there would be some kind of pre-action feedback that indicates to the player that clicking here will bring up the radial menu. This would be the case for brackets in space, for example: when the mouse cursor enters the "region" of a bracket in space the bracket will get a faint circle around it (similar to the "item is selected" circle but fainter and thicker), so you know that clicking at this point will bring up a radial menu. Changing the mouse cursor also works, but the EVE mouse cursor is pretty tiny compared to the huge screens we use these days. Thus you have two different contexts, which a human can easily handle: one is clicking in space (which allows one to move the camera) or clicking on a thing (which is not space, thus is a different context, and does a different thing).

Of course in an ideal world we'd all be playing using HD Oculus Rifts, so panning the camera around would be achieved by turning your head. And then we'd have 3D kinect style interfaces, so interacting with objects in space would be done by pointing at or touching them.

Day 0 Advice for New Players
blazegryph
Corpy Hooves
#37 - 2013-05-21 16:02:19 UTC
As long my current right-click menu, both in station and inflight is not modified, i'll be happy
Trebor Daehdoow
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#38 - 2013-05-21 16:18:35 UTC
MainDrain wrote:
The ability to select an item via the radial menu using a number key could also be useful for the default actions.

Keys around the S for righties, Keys around the Numpad-5 for lefties.

Private Citizen • CSM in recovery
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#39 - 2013-05-21 16:30:26 UTC
Nested right click menus are the worst thing ever invented in the history of computing, so any ideas to make the current situation better are welcome.

However, I'm an impatient man. I want things now, and not after a delay, especially these kind of control options- so a modifier key I could press before clicking an object in space to bring up this radial menu would be nice. The delay is the reason I haven't even seen the current radial menu in years. Waiting to get to issue commands is uncool, gief bacon nao!

Secondly I currently use keyboard shortcuts for controlling the ship (select from overview, Q/A/D etc). Instead of replicating these in the radial menu, I would love to see the other, less used options in the radial menu.

All in all, I'd be very very happy if I could use only this radial menu and normal shortcuts and never suffer a nested r-click menu in my EVE again.

And pretty please- could you add a simple keyboard shortcut for "Launch drones"? Just like the navigation commands, I could press for example "T", then click on a drone group and wooosh, there they go in space. I know the drone UI revamp has been put on backburner possibly forever, but this simple improvement would make many people happy.





.
Kaildoth
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#40 - 2013-05-21 16:43:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Kaildoth
i dont get whats wrong with the old menu, i like it and im used to it, why they want to change everything :( hate those radial fancy menus... oh well, i hope its optional.