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Intergalactic Summit

 
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PIE: Resurgence and Peace
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Samira Kernher
Cail Avetatu
#21 - 2013-05-20 22:17:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Samira Kernher
Katarina Musana wrote:
The "current" war, as you like to call it, may well be on the Republic's hands. I see no need to argue that point when there's a bigger issue.

The Reclaiming is purely an Amarrian construct. Being at war and enacting a Reclaiming do not go hand-in-hand. The "current Reclaiming" is on the Empire's hands, not ours. And as long as the Empire continues with its proclamations and attempts at Reclaiming us, there will be no opportunity for peace. So, the continuance of war between us is, actually, on the Empire's hands.

Ball's in your court, dear.


You, I, and most people alive today were born in an era of peace between the Empire and the Republic. Our nations still have trading stations in each others space. For over a century there was no Reclaiming, as I have said several times now, except for missionary work and limited slave taking where permitted by CONCORD treaties (treaties that had been ratified by the Republic's leadership, by the way).

The proclamation and attempting happened after you broke decades of peace and started a war.

The Empire sought peace. Shakor's Republic sought war.
Seneca Aurun
Doomheim
#22 - 2013-05-20 23:11:28 UTC
Katarina Musana wrote:

The "current" war, as you like to call it, may well be on the Republic's hands. I see no need to argue that point when there's a bigger issue.

The Reclaiming is purely an Amarrian construct. Being at war and enacting a Reclaiming do not go hand-in-hand. The "current Reclaiming" is on the Empire's hands, not ours. And as long as the Empire continues with its proclamations and attempts at Reclaiming us, there will be no opportunity for peace. So, the continuance of war between us is, actually, on the Empire's hands.

Ball's in your court, dear.


The Battle of Colelie puts lie to your words. It is rather clear that peace with the Republic is impossible, even for it's own allies, on any other terms than complete submission any time the Republic chooses to make demands in the name of Tribal 'honor' .
Cipher7
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#23 - 2013-05-20 23:41:33 UTC
Katran Luftschreck wrote:
Anabella Rella wrote:
So long as you chauvinistic imperials insist that you are some sort of master race to which the rest of humanity must bow to and service....


First off, the modern definition of Amarrian is anyone who believes in and practices the Amarr Faith. The Khanid, Ni-Kunni, Ammatar... all Amarrians. If a Civire or Jin-Mei converts to our Faith then we consider them a brother or sister standing beside us before God. The idea of "Race" as you define it is completely irrelevant. I know this is going to sail right over your thick head, but we Amarrians are not a "race" - We are an idea.

If you are looking for someone obsessed with the idea of a "master race" you need only look in the mirror. Bloodline this, tribe that, bow to our wishes or we'll blow you up (and that's how you treat your supposed allies). You don't care about culture, beliefs, or what is in a person's soul - you only care about some obscure notion of genetic kinships and you base your entire society around it. You're inner desires are no secret to anyone: The repression, conquest, and eventual extermination of all any human being who doesn't have enough Matari-brand DNA to be considered "worthy."


You can join a tribe dumbass.

It's a voluntary association.
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
#24 - 2013-05-20 23:47:47 UTC
Cipher7 wrote:
You can join a tribe dumbass.

It's a voluntary association.


So is mine.

Consider yourself ignored. You're making me lose IQ points through osmosis.

http://youtu.be/t0q2F8NsYQ0
Cipher7
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#25 - 2013-05-21 00:30:45 UTC

Yeah I'm sure slavery is a voluntary association.
Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#26 - 2013-05-21 00:34:21 UTC
Cipher7 wrote:

Yeah I'm sure slavery is a voluntary association.

It is for some; for example, the entire Amarr religion.

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn
Cipher7
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#27 - 2013-05-21 00:39:49 UTC
Lyris Nairn wrote:
Cipher7 wrote:

Yeah I'm sure slavery is a voluntary association.

It is for some; for example, the entire Amarr religion.


Derp?
Kithrus
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#28 - 2013-05-21 01:00:12 UTC
Cipher7 wrote:
Lyris Nairn wrote:
Cipher7 wrote:

Yeah I'm sure slavery is a voluntary association.

It is for some; for example, the entire Amarr religion.


Derp?


You can volunteer, we take volunteers. Totally saves on the paperwork.

Joking aside my best friend from my first days piloting joined me in Clergy and later in DFE. She is a well respected with us though she hasn't been flying lately and been focusing on her education to upgrade her talents.

You really should see Amarrian scholarship programs.

Darkness is more then absence of light, it is ignorance and corruption. I will be the Bulwark from such things that you may live in the light. Pray so my arms do not grow weary and my footing remain sure.

If you are brave, join me in the dark.
Katarina Musana
Clan Leshya Offworld Venture Enterprise
#29 - 2013-05-21 01:30:51 UTC
Samira Kernher wrote:
Katarina Musana wrote:
The "current" war, as you like to call it, may well be on the Republic's hands. I see no need to argue that point when there's a bigger issue.

The Reclaiming is purely an Amarrian construct. Being at war and enacting a Reclaiming do not go hand-in-hand. The "current Reclaiming" is on the Empire's hands, not ours. And as long as the Empire continues with its proclamations and attempts at Reclaiming us, there will be no opportunity for peace. So, the continuance of war between us is, actually, on the Empire's hands.

Ball's in your court, dear.


You, I, and most people alive today were born in an era of peace between the Empire and the Republic. Our nations still have trading stations in each others space. For over a century there was no Reclaiming, as I have said several times now, except for missionary work and limited slave taking where permitted by CONCORD treaties (treaties that had been ratified by the Republic's leadership, by the way).

The proclamation and attempting happened after you broke decades of peace and started a war.

The Empire sought peace. Shakor's Republic sought war.


Yeah, peace, aside from the repeated slave raids against us. Of course, your lovely government claims they weren't official and that they're working to eliminate illegal slavers to keep Concord off their back.

And war or not, regardless of who started it, any decision to attempt a Reclaiming against the Minmatar is on the Empire's hands, not ours. War does not equate to Reclaiming.

Seneca Aurun wrote:
The Battle of Colelie puts lie to your words. It is rather clear that peace with the Republic is impossible, even for it's own allies, on any other terms than complete submission any time the Republic chooses to make demands in the name of Tribal 'honor' .


No, it really doesn't. First, there had been continued attempts at negotiation with the Federation, all of which failed. Second, no statement has been made by the Tribal Council as to the exact reasons for the battle at Colelie, so any speculation as to the reason it occurred and whether or not there really was justification is just that, speculation.

Katran Luftschreck wrote:
Consider yourself ignored. You're making me lose IQ points through osmosis.


Hon, you'd have to have some IQ points in order to lose them.
Seneca Aurun
Doomheim
#30 - 2013-05-21 02:01:20 UTC
Katarina Musana wrote:

No, it really doesn't. First, there had been continued attempts at negotiation with the Federation, all of which failed.


And certainly violence is the appropriate response to a dispute with an ally.

Quote:
Second, no statement has been made by the Tribal Council as to the exact reasons for the battle at Colelie, so any speculation as to the reason it occurred and whether or not there really was justification is just that, speculation.


The Republic stated the intentions of it's incursion into Federation space quite clearly. Assuming some other hidden justification is pure speculation on your part.
Katarina Musana
Clan Leshya Offworld Venture Enterprise
#31 - 2013-05-21 02:11:51 UTC
Seneca Aurun wrote:
Katarina Musana wrote:

No, it really doesn't. First, there had been continued attempts at negotiation with the Federation, all of which failed.


And certainly violence is the appropriate response to a dispute with an ally.

Quote:
Second, no statement has been made by the Tribal Council as to the exact reasons for the battle at Colelie, so any speculation as to the reason it occurred and whether or not there really was justification is just that, speculation.


The Republic stated the intentions of it's incursion into Federation space quite clearly. Assuming some other hidden justification is pure speculation on your part.



Would you care to show me where they made this statement? I have not seen any official statement from the Tribal Council or Shakor on the matter.
Laria Raven
The Scope
#32 - 2013-05-21 16:11:10 UTC
It's a bit odd really. How did we get into such a mess?

The game is to make lots of noise about peace while continuing to fight. Whoever makes the most convincing peace noises while doing nothing to bring that peace to fruition wins.

Here is the truth: We all believe there are some things more important than peace.

Freedom. Identity. Equality. Money. Sanctity. Purity. Success. Happiness.

Pick as many as you like, stir together, produce your ideology.

Here's the thing: We're right. There are things more important than peace.

This is hypocrisy. Fight for the things you believe in. Fight for your goals. Because a war for goals, whatever they are, is better than a miserable, stagnant, unfair, unholy... whatever... peace.

Fallen from grace. And as night comes, may flights of Angels visit your sleep... shoot your ships and steal all of your stuff.
Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#33 - 2013-05-21 19:17:18 UTC
Considering the impressive amount of occurrences of the word "race" in this "discussion" - even "race traitor" - this "discussion" is starting to flirt with ridicule and absurdity.

Races apply for dogs.
Sepherim
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#34 - 2013-05-22 14:35:07 UTC
Katarina Musana wrote:
Yeah, peace, aside from the repeated slave raids against us. Of course, your lovely government claims they weren't official and that they're working to eliminate illegal slavers to keep Concord off their back.


Do you have any proof of this claim? Because those are ilegal activities and should be reported to the authorities so they can be handled. But then, if you have no proof...

Quote:
And war or not, regardless of who started it, any decision to attempt a Reclaiming against the Minmatar is on the Empire's hands, not ours. War does not equate to Reclaiming.


It is true, war doesn't equate to Reclaiming. Amarrian wars against external hostiles usually do. And don't believe that because we name it Reclaiming we can forget that you started it.

Quote:
No, it really doesn't. First, there had been continued attempts at negotiation with the Federation, all of which failed. Second, no statement has been made by the Tribal Council as to the exact reasons for the battle at Colelie, so any speculation as to the reason it occurred and whether or not there really was justification is just that, speculation.


I see, so the failure in diplomacy justifies military action, instead of further diplomacy?

I don't completely disagree with this statement, don't take me wrong, I just want to make it clear.

Sepherim Catillah Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris Liuteneant Ex-Imperial Navy Imperator Commander
Seneca Aurun
Doomheim
#35 - 2013-05-22 15:05:44 UTC
Katarina Musana wrote:

Would you care to show me where they made this statement? I have not seen any official statement from the Tribal Council or Shakor on the matter.



According to the reports Admiral Leralduin Olf demanded free passage through Federation territory to seize the accused shooter in the Caille incident.

Due presumably to the failure of the Federation to submit unconditionally to the Republics demands.

Apologies, I meant due to the 'breakdown in negotiations' between the Republic and the Federation.
Anabella Rella
Gradient
Electus Matari
#36 - 2013-05-22 15:11:15 UTC
Lyn Farel wrote:
Considering the impressive amount of occurrences of the word "race" in this "discussion" - even "race traitor" - this "discussion" is starting to flirt with ridicule and absurdity.

Races apply for dogs.



Races also apply to humans. Or, are you going to try to say that we're all absolutely physically identical with no distinctive anatomical and/or physiological characteristics? Please... Roll

So what's your point anyway, Farel? Do you have one or do you just enjoy climbing down from your mountain of wisdom every so often to grace us mortals with your presence? If the former, please state your case rather than pontificating. If the latter, well, please just keep your thoughts to yourself.

When the world is running down, you make the best of what's still around.
Adreena Madeveda
Sebiestor Tribe
#37 - 2013-05-22 17:23:16 UTC
Anabella Rella wrote:
Lyn Farel wrote:
Considering the impressive amount of occurrences of the word "race" in this "discussion" - even "race traitor" - this "discussion" is starting to flirt with ridicule and absurdity.

Races apply for dogs.



Races also apply to humans. Or, are you going to try to say that we're all absolutely physically identical with no distinctive anatomical and/or physiological characteristics? Please... Roll

So what's your point anyway, Farel? Do you have one or do you just enjoy climbing down from your mountain of wisdom every so often to grace us mortals with your presence? If the former, please state your case rather than pontificating. If the latter, well, please just keep your thoughts to yourself.



Oddly enough, I find myself agreeing with Lyn...
There is one human race.
The genetic and morphological variations from one ethnicity to another exists, but are not enough, on a biological standpoint, to talk about "human races".

...................\o\ /o/...................
Cipher7
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#38 - 2013-05-22 17:25:39 UTC
Everybody says "peace peace peace"

ie "We want peace but we want to continue slaving"
ie "We want peace but we want ownership of Caldari Prime"

Nobody wants peace, they want cessation of conflict on /their/ terms.

And they make up grandiose flowery ideologies with all the associated theatrics.

Human rights of this. God's thing of that.

So self important. So full of schit.

Man is biological creature like 2-legged wolf.

Sometimes they want violence, to hunt prey, to establish territory, to establish leadership.

Sometimes they want peace, to rest, to eat, to lick their wounds.

Mankind also has huge brain, to create complex social structure.

Empire is dictatorship by small group.

Democracy is dictatorship by small group under the pretext of choosing between "our guy A" vs "our guy B"

Slavery 1.0 = "Do what I say or I will hurt you"
Slavery 2.0 = "I'll pay you 7 isk an hour to do what I say or you will starve and be homeless"
Slavery 3.0 = "You worked your whole life, invested in stocks, bonds, munis. Now they're all worthless. Oh by the way, all the taxes you paid for social safety nets? That money's gone too. Bon Appetit."

The only REAL thing people have of value is their families, their tribes, each other.

Our own land to farm. Our own factories to produce.

Peace is a lie.
Cipher7
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#39 - 2013-05-22 17:33:00 UTC
Adreena Madeveda wrote:
Anabella Rella wrote:
Lyn Farel wrote:
Considering the impressive amount of occurrences of the word "race" in this "discussion" - even "race traitor" - this "discussion" is starting to flirt with ridicule and absurdity.

Races apply for dogs.



Races also apply to humans. Or, are you going to try to say that we're all absolutely physically identical with no distinctive anatomical and/or physiological characteristics? Please... Roll

So what's your point anyway, Farel? Do you have one or do you just enjoy climbing down from your mountain of wisdom every so often to grace us mortals with your presence? If the former, please state your case rather than pontificating. If the latter, well, please just keep your thoughts to yourself.



Oddly enough, I find myself agreeing with Lyn...
There is one human race.
The genetic and morphological variations from one ethnicity to another exists, but are not enough, on a biological standpoint, to talk about "human races".


It's a semantic, it's like saying "there's no nation, it's all imaginary borders."

Yes theoretically that's true.

Theoretically there's no races either.

In practice there are races, but they are more to do with cultural traits than biological markers.

People get adopted into clans all the time, are they biologically of our race? No, but for all intents and purposes they become one of us, they are Matari.

Call it a culture if you want instead of race. Race is just easier to type.
Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#40 - 2013-05-22 17:38:43 UTC
"Cipher 7," I think you could do with some introductory-level coursework in the humanities and economics.

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn