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1 gigajoule per second = 1000 megawatts
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Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2013-05-20 18:55:48 UTC
As far as I can tell, there is a discrepancy in EVE Online in which modules use far more power than they should be able to, given the amount of powergrid they are hooked up to. Can anyone with knowledge of how mechanical ship systems hook up to a ship's capacitor verify if there is a discrepancy here? Is there something I am not understanding?

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#2 - 2013-05-20 19:04:07 UTC
Because of "video games"
Syreniac
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2013-05-20 19:06:12 UTC
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
As far as I can tell, there is a discrepancy in EVE Online in which modules use far more power than they should be able to, given the amount of powergrid they are hooked up to. Can anyone with knowledge of how mechanical ship systems hook up to a ship's capacitor verify if there is a discrepancy here? Is there something I am not understanding?


Powergrid is the level of power required to keep something on, but not really doing anything. Think keeping a tv on standby.

Capacitor is the energy required for something to do something suddenly.
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#4 - 2013-05-20 19:55:36 UTC
Since OP is sooo into maths and stuff, which of my frigates is capable of timetravel based on 1.21 gigawatts? Dont forget to compensate for the mass difference between a rifter and a Delorean.

Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?
Kult Altol
The Safe Space
#5 - 2013-05-20 20:46:56 UTC
Syreniac wrote:
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
As far as I can tell, there is a discrepancy in EVE Online in which modules use far more power than they should be able to, given the amount of powergrid they are hooked up to. Can anyone with knowledge of how mechanical ship systems hook up to a ship's capacitor verify if there is a discrepancy here? Is there something I am not understanding?


Powergrid is the level of power required to keep something on, but not really doing anything. Think keeping a tv on standby.

Capacitor is the energy required for something to do something suddenly.


Pretty much that.

[u]Can't wait untill when Eve online is Freemium.[/u] WiS only 10$, SP booster for one month 15$, DPS Boost 2$, EHP Boost 2$ Real money trading hub! Cosmeitic ship skins 15$ --> If you don't [u]pay **[/u]for a product, you ARE the [u]**product[/u].

J3ssica Alba
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2013-05-20 20:50:08 UTC
A technology so far more advanced than ours would appear to be as magic to our eyes 
This is my signature. There are many others like it, but this one is mine.  Without me, my signature is useless. Without my signature, I am useless
Ken 1138
State War Academy
Caldari State
#7 - 2013-05-20 21:07:44 UTC
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
Since OP is sooo into maths and stuff, which of my frigates is capable of timetravel based on 1.21 gigawatts? Dont forget to compensate for the mass difference between a rifter and a Delorean.



Doc Brown sez: Jigawatt.
Setaceous
Nexus Prima
#8 - 2013-05-20 21:15:46 UTC
A wizard did it.
Grimpak
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2013-05-20 21:22:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Grimpak
Kult Altol wrote:
Syreniac wrote:
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
As far as I can tell, there is a discrepancy in EVE Online in which modules use far more power than they should be able to, given the amount of powergrid they are hooked up to. Can anyone with knowledge of how mechanical ship systems hook up to a ship's capacitor verify if there is a discrepancy here? Is there something I am not understanding?


Powergrid is the level of power required to keep something on, but not really doing anything. Think keeping a tv on standby.

Capacitor is the energy required for something to do something suddenly.


Pretty much that.

in addition I ask you this: how many joules does a capacitor witth, let's say, 2200 nano-Farads pack?

hell, in all honesty, the only thing one should say about how wrong eve is in this bit is, that the capacitors shoudl've been shown in farads and not joules, now that I think about it.

[img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]

[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right
Ryelek d'Entari
Horizon Glare
#10 - 2013-05-20 21:33:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Ryelek d'Entari
Capacitance is measured in farads, which indicates how much energy (joules) a capacitor will store when a given voltage is applied.

The energy stored in a capacitor, however, is in fact measured in joules (or some other unit of energy), so that's correct at least.



Here's the handwavy physics answer for the OP:


  • A ship's power core generates a certain amount of power (megawatts) continuously.
  • The ship's systems (modules) require a certain amount of that power (measured in MW) in order to remain online and functioning, when not used.
  • The ship's power core then dumps its excess energy output (measured in megawatts * seconds = megajoules) to the ship capacitor (think of it like a short term battery)
  • When modules are activated, they consume an extra burst of energy from the capacitor



In this sequence, all the terminology of Eve is in fact correct, though the numbers may not strictly add up. It also makes sense why a capacitor battery increases your capacitor total value.
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#11 - 2013-05-20 21:33:56 UTC
Grimpak wrote:
hell, in all honesty, the only thing one should say about how wrong eve is in this bit is, that the capacitors shoudl've been shown in farads and not joules, now that I think about it.


A Farad is a unit of capacitance. A joule is a unit of energy. A capacitor stores energy, not capacitance. Thus the ship's capacitor shows the correct units: joules of stored energy. The farad-rating of the capacitors in the ship doesn't matter. What would make a difference of course is the watt-rating of those capacitors, since energy storage devices in the real world have the same kind of limitation: due to internal resistance, load impedance, and physical construction of the storage unit, some devices are only suited for moderate wattage over a long period of time (e.g.: alkaline batteries) while others are better suited for large wattage over a short period of time (e.g.: lead-acid car batteries).

Thus the Amarr racial bonus to capacitor usage of laser weapons: their capacitors are designed specifically to handle that kind of load. So it's not so much a case that laser weapons get a bonus to capacitor usage, so much as every other use is less efficient.

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Ryelek d'Entari
Horizon Glare
#12 - 2013-05-20 21:37:17 UTC
On a vaguely related note, the unit of CPU in eve is "tf". I always assumed this stands for teraflops - anyone confirm/deny?
Gealbhan
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#13 - 2013-05-20 21:42:15 UTC
Comparing EvE Online physics to Real Life physics is like comparing a meal at Olive Garden to a McDonald's burger and fries, there is no comparison and to pursue such a conclusion from henceforth would be an exercise in folly. Arrow
Niddengolliah
Limit Everyone Nowhere Kingdom
#14 - 2013-05-20 21:43:43 UTC
Ryelek d'Entari wrote:
On a vaguely related note, the unit of CPU in eve is "tf". I always assumed this stands for teraflops - anyone confirm/deny?



Yep, it does stand for teraflops!
Adunh Slavy
#15 - 2013-05-20 22:51:12 UTC
Reverse the polarity of the WatchmaCallIt and inject it into the DoHickey with an inverted plasma array using the iso-linear control pad. This produces Sci-Fi-Magic Sauce.

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2013-05-21 03:25:21 UTC
Adunh Slavy wrote:
Reverse the polarity of the WatchmaCallIt and inject it into the DoHickey with an inverted plasma array using the iso-linear control pad. This produces Sci-Fi-Magic Sauce.
It's only magic if you don't understand it. But as anyone who paid attention in high school quantum physics would tell you, injecting a Watchamacallit with reversed polarity into a Dohickey with an inverted plasma array will cause the same function as injecting a non-reversed Watchamacallit into a non-inverted plasma array. That is to say, it will align the magnetic Thingamajigs and allow the complete conversion of matter to antimatter within an electromagnetically sealed chamber.

Now if you reverse the polarity of a Watchamacallit and inject it into a STANDARD PLASMA ARRAY, it will lead to a phase shift in the magnetic alignnment of the Thingamajigs, causing partial antimatter conversion with simultaneous gravitronic feedback, and you will generate tiny black holes which can be harnessed with a gravoelectromagnetic field and hurled at your enemy.

It's really just a matter of whether you want to deal EM or explosive damage with a strip of iron. And if you want to deal thermal damage, simply convert the strip of iron to antimatter and combine it with a matter strip inside a Convertamatron chamber and expel the exhaust into a thermographic funnel, which can then be used to hurl hot plasma at your enemy. Or you can just vent plasma from the plasma array. And lets face it, if you want to deal kinetic damage with iron, I'm sure you know how that's done. That's ancient technology.

Cause these days children produce railguns in kindergarten class...seriously...

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Alexa Coates
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2013-05-21 04:24:13 UTC
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
Adunh Slavy wrote:
Reverse the polarity of the WatchmaCallIt and inject it into the DoHickey with an inverted plasma array using the iso-linear control pad. This produces Sci-Fi-Magic Sauce.
It's only magic if you don't understand it. But as anyone who paid attention in high school quantum physics would tell you, injecting a Watchamacallit with reversed polarity into a Dohickey with an inverted plasma array will cause the same function as injecting a non-reversed Watchamacallit into a non-inverted plasma array. That is to say, it will align the magnetic Thingamajigs and allow the complete conversion of matter to antimatter within an electromagnetically sealed chamber.

Now if you reverse the polarity of a Watchamacallit and inject it into a STANDARD PLASMA ARRAY, it will lead to a phase shift in the magnetic alignnment of the Thingamajigs, causing partial antimatter conversion with simultaneous gravitronic feedback, and you will generate tiny black holes which can be harnessed with a gravoelectromagnetic field and hurled at your enemy.

It's really just a matter of whether you want to deal EM or explosive damage with a strip of iron. And if you want to deal thermal damage, simply convert the strip of iron to antimatter and combine it with a matter strip inside a Convertamatron chamber and expel the exhaust into a thermographic funnel, which can then be used to hurl hot plasma at your enemy. Or you can just vent plasma from the plasma array. And lets face it, if you want to deal kinetic damage with iron, I'm sure you know how that's done. That's ancient technology.

Cause these days children produce railguns in kindergarten class...seriously...

did you seriously write a factually correct, sarcastic wall of text?

Because if so i ******* applaud you, that was beautiful.

That's a Templar, an Amarr fighter used by carriers.
SmilingVagrant
Doomheim
#18 - 2013-05-21 05:07:16 UTC
How many Jiggywatts is it though?
Nariya Kentaya
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#19 - 2013-05-21 05:09:53 UTC
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
Adunh Slavy wrote:
Reverse the polarity of the WatchmaCallIt and inject it into the DoHickey with an inverted plasma array using the iso-linear control pad. This produces Sci-Fi-Magic Sauce.
It's only magic if you don't understand it. But as anyone who paid attention in high school quantum physics would tell you, injecting a Watchamacallit with reversed polarity into a Dohickey with an inverted plasma array will cause the same function as injecting a non-reversed Watchamacallit into a non-inverted plasma array. That is to say, it will align the magnetic Thingamajigs and allow the complete conversion of matter to antimatter within an electromagnetically sealed chamber.

Now if you reverse the polarity of a Watchamacallit and inject it into a STANDARD PLASMA ARRAY, it will lead to a phase shift in the magnetic alignnment of the Thingamajigs, causing partial antimatter conversion with simultaneous gravitronic feedback, and you will generate tiny black holes which can be harnessed with a gravoelectromagnetic field and hurled at your enemy.

It's really just a matter of whether you want to deal EM or explosive damage with a strip of iron. And if you want to deal thermal damage, simply convert the strip of iron to antimatter and combine it with a matter strip inside a Convertamatron chamber and expel the exhaust into a thermographic funnel, which can then be used to hurl hot plasma at your enemy. Or you can just vent plasma from the plasma array. And lets face it, if you want to deal kinetic damage with iron, I'm sure you know how that's done. That's ancient technology.

Cause these days children produce railguns in kindergarten class...seriously...

in highschool engineering/electronics class, for midterms, we were put into teams of 3 and each had to build a rudimentary railgun capable of, at minimum, kersploding a pumpkin after flinging a 6oz. "bullet" 10 meters. afterwards, each would be tested firing into ballistics gel, the farthest penetration earning a 100%, 2nd a 90%, 3rd 80%, etc etc.

I came in second place, if only because i accidentally broke mine on the way into class and had to do emergency magic repairs.
Kueyen
Angharradh's Aegis
#20 - 2013-05-21 13:28:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Kueyen
Grimpak wrote:
in addition I ask you this: how many joules does a capacitor witth, let's say, 2200 nano-Farads pack?
Other people have explained that Farad is a unit of capacitance, not capacity, but the answer to your question is: 2.2 µJ per V². Combine that with a safe voltage limit (say, 100V), and you get a storage capacity of 22 mJ.

An example of a top-line commercial ultracapacitor today (2013 CE / YC-21223) has a capacitance of ~90F with a voltage limit of 75V, and can therefore store ~500kJ. It masses 25 kg, for a final density of ~20kJ/kg.

Until all are free...
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