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[Odyssey] Navy Battleships

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Hagika
Standard Corp 123
#1081 - 2013-05-20 12:03:25 UTC
Now back to my regularly scheduled program...


CNR change proposal... go back to 7 launchers and 5% ROF.

Lose the velocity bonus and add the explosion radius in place of it.

Keep the other changes intended..


Input folks....
Johnson Oramara
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#1082 - 2013-05-20 12:05:23 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Hagika wrote:
Pattern Clarc wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Neuts are useful, but not at thep price of tank And firepower. Also neutralizing is armageddon role now. You waste your time with any other ship if neutralizing is so important.

That, and the fact that everyones gone passive because of remote reps and *neuts everywhere.*


Because capping out your enemy to prevent them from using MWD,web,point or any other active fittings surely is useless right?

Let me guess, you are a phoon pilot and will like having the option of utility slots? Or having a completely superior ship to the caldari counterpart...
Hmm minnie race :check

Hypocrite :check



Caldaris should try to stay outside neut range with their battleships. That is the focus of their race. Gettign close and personal with caldari is same as sayign to minmatar ships to stand still and tank it like a boss (that iis also one of reasons I say maelstorm is NOT a minmatar ship, and shoudl be changed).


DO not blame us if you want to use raven wrong. Caldari battleships are supposed to stay further away and let the tacklign to smaller ships. So the raven does not have as much use for its neuts as the gallente have for example or even the minmatar.

If the raven had no range bonus, then I would agree that the loss of a utility high was somethign important.

Considering the speed and mass of Caldari ships keeping range is kinda hard, and Caldari ships require 2 pilots against single other ship? Ok... damn us trying to compete with others...
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#1083 - 2013-05-20 12:06:36 UTC
Hagika wrote:


The velocity bonus doesnt add that much to torp range like it does cruise.



Lol

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#1084 - 2013-05-20 12:07:09 UTC
Hagika wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Dude.. jsut WTF? CHECK last 1 year changes. No race recived more nerfs or less buff on the classes that were buffed than minmatar. Stop with this pathetic Naomi style CCP LOVES MINAMTAR ONLY.

7 years ago the forusm were, Minmatar are hard mode, if you wnt to play easy eve go caldari sicne CCP only boosts caldari.


THe current flavor of the monht is gallente, and only the late peopel did not realized it yet.



Really, doesnt look like gallente is the FOTM from my eyes and matar just got a big dread buff, the phoon and fleet phoon are getting make overs and are going to be superior to not only caldari but others as well.

Alpha fleets rule the BS category (maelstrom)

Their real complain is the tempest at the moment.. Hey did I mention they have one of the best T3 cruisers and pretyt much the best ABC? Oh dont forget their HACs are good, along with their cruisers.

When the devs even call them winmatar, then you seriously cant say they are hurting in any way. They have been the gripe of being over powered for the last 2 years.

So dude, just WTF, accept that fact that this is true. Caldari have been crap aside from the Drake which was nerfed and the Tengu which also took a weapons nerf.
They have a broken weapon system that is now seeing love after ohhhhh 5 years? and its just 1.. Torps are not even being changed right now. Capital missile systems? Broke as hell, rockets buffed not too long ago.
Medium rails are garbage which affects them too, and we can go into other caldari ships. Eagle? Cerb?
Let me know when you see someone flying an eagle..

Caldari have been the brunt of jokes in eve for years. This is coming from a gallente pilot.

Edit : 7 years ago, the easy mode of caldari was mainly in pve, which is still the only real place they hold their own to others.


Hurricane . Super nerfed. Rifter the only t1 combat frigate not buffed. Stabber. Got so horrible that is bein g re buffed because became unplayable, Tempest fleet issue is not gettign an uplift is HORRIBLE. Maelstrom.. abaddon can do the same BETTER (same alpha , more EHP). TRacking enhancer nerf. Rupture the cruiser that barely changed (1 slot moved, much less than any other race).

Stop being arrogant and Blind. Gallente are the ones on the upswing now. Peopel trainign projectiles now will be whining in 1 year because gallente ships are overpowered and etc etc . Smart peopel already trained Gallente.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Dr Topolex
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#1085 - 2013-05-20 12:14:16 UTC
I think the main reason for all the pandering and hoo haw in this thread is that we all want our roles supported

not to mention eve players tend to place roles on other ships that they dont even fly much less confide in

But the limiting issue here is that there are only 2 ships per race we can fight over

Dont get me wrong, I think it should stay 2 ships, but shouldn't there be some congruence on pvp vs pve roles. Pirate ships will obiviously be pvp. but since we have the choice of 2 faction ships per race, then cant we come together on what is pve and what is pvp?

for instance

Gallente
pve geared - dominix
pvp geared - mega

Caldari

pve geared - raven
pvp geared - scorpion

Amarr

I dont know, because I dont fly them yet

Minmatar

I dont know, same thing

SEE WHAT IM GETTING AT

All this boo hooing needs to stop, not everyone can be catered too.
Situations like these I see devs throwing darts on notes on the wall out of shear frustration.

This shyt is getting out of control, behave yourselves everyone
Johnson Oramara
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#1086 - 2013-05-20 12:25:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Johnson Oramara
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Hagika wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Dude.. jsut WTF? CHECK last 1 year changes. No race recived more nerfs or less buff on the classes that were buffed than minmatar. Stop with this pathetic Naomi style CCP LOVES MINAMTAR ONLY.

7 years ago the forusm were, Minmatar are hard mode, if you wnt to play easy eve go caldari sicne CCP only boosts caldari.


THe current flavor of the monht is gallente, and only the late peopel did not realized it yet.



Really, doesnt look like gallente is the FOTM from my eyes and matar just got a big dread buff, the phoon and fleet phoon are getting make overs and are going to be superior to not only caldari but others as well.

Alpha fleets rule the BS category (maelstrom)

Their real complain is the tempest at the moment.. Hey did I mention they have one of the best T3 cruisers and pretyt much the best ABC? Oh dont forget their HACs are good, along with their cruisers.

When the devs even call them winmatar, then you seriously cant say they are hurting in any way. They have been the gripe of being over powered for the last 2 years.

So dude, just WTF, accept that fact that this is true. Caldari have been crap aside from the Drake which was nerfed and the Tengu which also took a weapons nerf.
They have a broken weapon system that is now seeing love after ohhhhh 5 years? and its just 1.. Torps are not even being changed right now. Capital missile systems? Broke as hell, rockets buffed not too long ago.
Medium rails are garbage which affects them too, and we can go into other caldari ships. Eagle? Cerb?
Let me know when you see someone flying an eagle..

Caldari have been the brunt of jokes in eve for years. This is coming from a gallente pilot.

Edit : 7 years ago, the easy mode of caldari was mainly in pve, which is still the only real place they hold their own to others.


Hurricane . Super nerfed. Rifter the only t1 combat frigate not buffed. Stabber. Got so horrible that is bein g re buffed because became unplayable, Tempest fleet issue is not gettign an uplift is HORRIBLE. Maelstrom.. abaddon can do the same BETTER (same alpha , more EHP). TRacking enhancer nerf. Rupture the cruiser that barely changed (1 slot moved, much less than any other race).

Stop being arrogant and Blind. Gallente are the ones on the upswing now. Peopel trainign projectiles now will be whining in 1 year because gallente ships are overpowered and etc etc . Smart peopel already trained Gallente.

You might want to check the Navy Battlecruiser thread, there's something familiar in there. Although it comes with a price, atleast they even admit how op it is in it's description. Navy Drake however was just turned to giant Navy Caracal to bully the smaller ships while losing to even a regular Drake.

Also atleast check your facts before arguing in here, just without any damage mods you have ~9k alpha with Maelstrom and 4.8k with Abaddon.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#1087 - 2013-05-20 12:25:57 UTC
Johnson Oramara wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Hagika wrote:
Pattern Clarc wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Neuts are useful, but not at thep price of tank And firepower. Also neutralizing is armageddon role now. You waste your time with any other ship if neutralizing is so important.

That, and the fact that everyones gone passive because of remote reps and *neuts everywhere.*


Because capping out your enemy to prevent them from using MWD,web,point or any other active fittings surely is useless right?

Let me guess, you are a phoon pilot and will like having the option of utility slots? Or having a completely superior ship to the caldari counterpart...
Hmm minnie race :check

Hypocrite :check



Caldaris should try to stay outside neut range with their battleships. That is the focus of their race. Gettign close and personal with caldari is same as sayign to minmatar ships to stand still and tank it like a boss (that iis also one of reasons I say maelstorm is NOT a minmatar ship, and shoudl be changed).


DO not blame us if you want to use raven wrong. Caldari battleships are supposed to stay further away and let the tacklign to smaller ships. So the raven does not have as much use for its neuts as the gallente have for example or even the minmatar.

If the raven had no range bonus, then I would agree that the loss of a utility high was somethign important.

Considering the speed and mass of Caldari ships keeping range is kinda hard, and Caldari ships require 2 pilots against single other ship? Ok... damn us trying to compete with others...


DUE Caldari have LESS MASS THAN MINMATAR. The only race with nearly same ammount of mass are gallente. And in several cases caldari are the lighest.

Check new raven final speed! I WISH minatar was still the light ravce. As of now its the HEAVIEST and FATTEST race!

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#1088 - 2013-05-20 12:27:15 UTC
Johnson Oramara wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Hagika wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Dude.. jsut WTF? CHECK last 1 year changes. No race recived more nerfs or less buff on the classes that were buffed than minmatar. Stop with this pathetic Naomi style CCP LOVES MINAMTAR ONLY.

7 years ago the forusm were, Minmatar are hard mode, if you wnt to play easy eve go caldari sicne CCP only boosts caldari.


THe current flavor of the monht is gallente, and only the late peopel did not realized it yet.



Really, doesnt look like gallente is the FOTM from my eyes and matar just got a big dread buff, the phoon and fleet phoon are getting make overs and are going to be superior to not only caldari but others as well.

Alpha fleets rule the BS category (maelstrom)

Their real complain is the tempest at the moment.. Hey did I mention they have one of the best T3 cruisers and pretyt much the best ABC? Oh dont forget their HACs are good, along with their cruisers.

When the devs even call them winmatar, then you seriously cant say they are hurting in any way. They have been the gripe of being over powered for the last 2 years.

So dude, just WTF, accept that fact that this is true. Caldari have been crap aside from the Drake which was nerfed and the Tengu which also took a weapons nerf.
They have a broken weapon system that is now seeing love after ohhhhh 5 years? and its just 1.. Torps are not even being changed right now. Capital missile systems? Broke as hell, rockets buffed not too long ago.
Medium rails are garbage which affects them too, and we can go into other caldari ships. Eagle? Cerb?
Let me know when you see someone flying an eagle..

Caldari have been the brunt of jokes in eve for years. This is coming from a gallente pilot.

Edit : 7 years ago, the easy mode of caldari was mainly in pve, which is still the only real place they hold their own to others.


Hurricane . Super nerfed. Rifter the only t1 combat frigate not buffed. Stabber. Got so horrible that is bein g re buffed because became unplayable, Tempest fleet issue is not gettign an uplift is HORRIBLE. Maelstrom.. abaddon can do the same BETTER (same alpha , more EHP). TRacking enhancer nerf. Rupture the cruiser that barely changed (1 slot moved, much less than any other race).

Stop being arrogant and Blind. Gallente are the ones on the upswing now. Peopel trainign projectiles now will be whining in 1 year because gallente ships are overpowered and etc etc . Smart peopel already trained Gallente.

You might want to check the Navy Battlecruiser thread, there's something familiar in there. Although it comes with a price, atleast they even admit how op it is in it's description. Navy Drake however was just turned to giant Navy Caracal to bully the smaller ships while losing to even a regular Drake.

Also atleast check your facts before arguing in here, just without any damage mods you have ~9k alpha with Maelstrom and 3.8k with Abaddon.


DUDE? SHUT UP ! 1400MM T2 DO SAME ALPHA IN ABADDON AND MAESLTROM! Same DAMAGE PER VOLLEY! And peopel ahve been using them for YEARS instead of Maelstroms. THis post of yoru just shows how LITTLER you know of PVP

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Claire Raynor
NovaGear
#1089 - 2013-05-20 12:30:38 UTC
I'm kinda miffed that the RF Typhoon appears to have gone from an Armour based Cruise Missile platform (PvE) to a Sheild Based AC platform (PvE). I still want to use it for the Armour Cruise role because my other alts use Armour and we spider tank for fun + self reps.

Can anyone share their thoughts on what they might do with their new typhoons for PvE? (I know it might be sub-optimal - but I fly them because they look soooo good). Are you peeps going to use Active Armour reps - Or will you use the Sheilds plus gank? - Active Armour plus arty and using the new Mid for a TC with painters? - Or will you go full Cruise with TP and then a Web for the close range stuff to help the medium drones?! It's kinda exciting to have these options.

I hope everyone else likes their new Battleships - Tempest seems OK TBH - I run them too and used to run them as armour when they should have been Sheild - and I did OK. Now they are supposed to be armour by the looks of it :). I also use my CNR as Armour - and have buckets of utility mids - just so it fits in the fleet for my Caldari dude - there's a proper Sheild CNR to go with the Maelstrom ships for Angel missions - and it's not much better than the Armour one after the lose of the TPs. . . . Great that the CNR will now be able to keep up with the other ships a bit better.

Laters!
Deerin
East Trading Co Ltd
#1090 - 2013-05-20 12:30:46 UTC
Hagika wrote:
Deerin wrote:
Alexander Renoir wrote:
If I fly the new CNR with 7 launcher and one tractor like I have ever done; this new ship would be horrible bad.


Why the hell is a tractor beam a balance argument for a Navy Battleship.

If you are THAT desperate about tractor beam, maybe you should look at the new SNI, which looks like a monster. It has 8 meds and shield resist bonus. You can easily put 3 target painters in that one, put rigors as rigs and apply full damage to almost everything....and still have a good tank to boot.


Utility slot for nuets for pvp or have you just skipped over reading the last hundred posts..


Alex says he needs tractor beams and I say screw tractor beams.....where is pvp or neuts mentioned on that post??

...and enough with whining.

Raven is the vanilla shield missile ship, Phoon is the new vanilla armor missile ship. They are different by nature.
Same goes with CNR and FPhoon.

Shield tankers will use the shield ships while armor tankers will use armor ships.

Neither obsolotes other and both will be used.

The fact: A CNR with 7 launchers and rof bonus and explosion velocity bonus WILL obsolote Golem, the t2 specialized PvE ship.

Here is what tiercide is:
http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/9129

And here is the part that is relevant to this thread:
http://content.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/8742/1/Shiptech_1920.jpg

Don't expect CCP to deviate from this plan by putting CNR over Golem.

What CCP SHOULD do is give CNR CPU. It is ridiculous atm.

What caldarians SHOULD be looking at is how SNI obsolotes CNR. Both are shield missile ships and SNI can fit one more TP to match ravens application bonus, has better shield tank and same dps in smaller volleys, which seems to be advantageous for PvE purposes. It also has utility slots for your tractor beams.

What we matari should be looking is how Fphoon obsolotes Fpest. At least Fpest has its armor alpha niche. But for general use Fphoon seems to be outclassing it. There needs to be some distinction:

For Pest: Get the dmg bonus part to 7.5% per level. I hate to see it outalphaed by maelstorms and abaddons. It is a %10 percent damage increasein total, which is something FPest needs to differentiate from regular pest.

For Phoon: Keep it in its orginal shape 8 4 8. 5/5 turrets/launchers keep new bonuses. Phoon was always about utility. Lets keep its nature on the fleet version.
Johnson Oramara
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#1091 - 2013-05-20 12:44:21 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:

DUDE? SHUT UP ! 1400MM T2 DO SAME ALPHA IN ABADDON AND MAESLTROM! Same DAMAGE PER VOLLEY! And peopel ahve been using them for YEARS instead of Maelstroms. THis post of yoru just shows how LITTLER you know of PVP

Alright my bad, i have not been in the huge fleet fights and i do not want to be either, is that the only pvp in the game? The balances shouldn't be only done around fleets either.

But still, there's no need to yell.
Icarius
The Wings of Maak
#1092 - 2013-05-20 13:08:19 UTC
Deerin wrote:


For Phoon: Keep it in its orginal shape 8 4 8. 5/5 turrets/launchers keep new bonuses. Phoon was always about utility. Lets keep its nature on the fleet version.



I agree

And please, to any forum and eft warriors ... when you post a virtual top pawn machine fit for a typhoon fleet... with more than 1000 dps ... and no point in med ... please go away...
Gimme more Cynos
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1093 - 2013-05-20 13:53:55 UTC
Deerin wrote:

Raven is the vanilla shield missile ship, Phoon is the new vanilla armor missile ship. They are different by nature.
Same goes with CNR and FPhoon.

Shield tankers will use the shield ships while armor tankers will use armor ships.


Wait till odysee, and you will see plenty of shield-tanked TFI's, obliterating any other missile plattform just because of it's pure damage with missiles, drones and a pair of guns..

in other words: your post is just a piece of crap..
Deerin
East Trading Co Ltd
#1094 - 2013-05-20 14:03:55 UTC
Gimme more Cynos wrote:
Deerin wrote:

Raven is the vanilla shield missile ship, Phoon is the new vanilla armor missile ship. They are different by nature.
Same goes with CNR and FPhoon.

Shield tankers will use the shield ships while armor tankers will use armor ships.


Wait till odysee, and you will see plenty of shield-tanked TFI's, obliterating any other missile plattform just because of it's pure damage with missiles, drones and a pair of guns..

in other words: your post is just a piece of crap..


Because on paper EFT DPS is all that matters right? You didn't even read my post and proposed fphoon change did you?
Kane Fenris
NWP
#1095 - 2013-05-20 14:21:12 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:

Stop being arrogant and Blind. Gallente are the ones on the upswing now. Peopel trainign projectiles now will be whining in 1 year because gallente ships are overpowered and etc etc . Smart peopel already trained Gallente.


Thats why i and my friends are training galente stuff for few months now.
your right but ppl wil only start to realize in the years to come....
Hagika
Standard Corp 123
#1096 - 2013-05-20 16:26:52 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Hagika wrote:


The velocity bonus doesnt add that much to torp range like it does cruise.



Lol



Malcanis, can you send that proposal to the Devs direction please and see what they say.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#1097 - 2013-05-20 17:37:50 UTC
Kane Fenris wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:

Stop being arrogant and Blind. Gallente are the ones on the upswing now. Peopel trainign projectiles now will be whining in 1 year because gallente ships are overpowered and etc etc . Smart peopel already trained Gallente.


Thats why i and my friends are training galente stuff for few months now.
your right but ppl wil only start to realize in the years to come....


I trained Gallente before it was cool #spacehipster

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Hagika
Standard Corp 123
#1098 - 2013-05-20 19:04:36 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
Kane Fenris wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:

Stop being arrogant and Blind. Gallente are the ones on the upswing now. Peopel trainign projectiles now will be whining in 1 year because gallente ships are overpowered and etc etc . Smart peopel already trained Gallente.


Thats why i and my friends are training galente stuff for few months now.
your right but ppl wil only start to realize in the years to come....


I trained Gallente before it was cool #spacehipster

-Liang


Yep same.

Did you see my proposed change? and how do you feel about it ?
Ocih
Space Mermaids
#1099 - 2013-05-20 19:05:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Ocih
I learned something long ago in EVE.

Large Blaster Spec 4
Large Railguns Spec 4

Large Artillery Spec 4
Large Autocannon Spec 4

Large beam Spec 4
Large pulse Spec 4

All other Gunnery to 5 or 4.

Yea, you do what you want CCP.

I don't mind.

And I like the Navy Battle Ships. If I could find 1200 other people in EVE willing to PvP in them, I'd do it but something else I learned long ago in EVE. It's all about the Blob.
n00b Paralex
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1100 - 2013-05-20 19:18:44 UTC
So very disappointed with the navy mega. Give it another mid slot damn it. Another mid slot would be multitudes more useful than a utility high slot.