These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Test Server Feedback

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Space Pinata First Impressions

First post
Author
Emcera
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#81 - 2013-05-19 23:44:08 UTC
As it stands dealing with the loot cloud is completely unfun. If it makes it into Live like this, I'll be completely ignoring data sites as being a net negative on the frustration/profit metric.
Ruze
Next Stage Initiative
#82 - 2013-05-20 03:58:54 UTC
Telrei wrote:
Ruze wrote:


I'm of the mindset that rewarding simultaneous team play is a benefit. But as it stands now, rewards to NOT equal out. I haven't come up with a better way to reward multiple players, while not rewarding multi-boxers, while not leaving a player to feel as if he's missing out.




Very simple way of doing it... increase the difficultly, increase the mobs, increase the loot(NO PINATA)...

If CCP wants us to run these with more people then all they have to do is make it worth running in the first place and not having pinata gimmicks..

If I get a 7/10 escalation or especially a 10/10 running anoms I don't think hmmm I wonder who I can bribe to help me with this to help get the cans or how many cans am I going to miss. I send out a "got a 7/10 or 10/10 who wants to run it" and as long as it isn't 20 odd jumps away or a really crappy one chances are I can get a fleet within a hour or at least an event on our corp calendar..

Flip side is that if i get a 5/10 I know I have a good chance to solo it for reduced loot table.

I completely understand and acknowledge this .. Higher level plex requires more people to run since they can drop 1-2bil+ of loot and are a lot more difficult if not impossible to multi-box. Med level requires a descent ship but I can run it solo for less reward, however I understand this due again to the degree of difficulty vs loot table chances


Difficulty of rats doesn't stop multi-boxing, though. That's the shame of it. In fact, it's not even that much harder. Managing a logi alt and two combat toons in a PVE encounter is pretty simple and easy to do. Mission and complex runners have proven that before. Hell, I've seen one player incursions before.

And of course, we may see rats entering with failed hacks and whatnot in the future on these sites, so multiple hands on deck could be more important than just grabbing the loot with.

If you're driven to threaten others with harm or violence because of what they do in game, you can't separate fantasy from reality. That "griefer/thief" is probably more sane than you are. How screwed up is that?

Killua Zoldyeck
Lucidus Ordo
Pandemic Legion
#83 - 2013-05-20 09:57:05 UTC
Sipphakta en Gravonere wrote:
Telrei wrote:
Why should a solo player lose out on loot????


You will get the same amount as currently, if the devs is to be believed. You just don't get penalized anymore when you take a friend with you.


This is how they should implement it. If I'm alone, i get the same isk I was getting before Odyssey, but If I bring a friend, we will both do the same isk I would've got alone. So neither of us is penalized, but we both gain the same isk we would get doing exploration solo.

Do you have a link or something from a Dev stating this? Because that's something I worry about this new system as I'd like to do exploration with a friend.

If that's confirmed the only two worries left are:
- Loot value (this should be on par with what we have currently per person. At the moment on SiSi loot is worthless and exploration as a profession is dead.
- NPC Spawns. If we are to use exploration ships to explore (Covops), NPC shouldn't spawn because we wouldn't be able to kill them. If we are both in Covert Ops (as we are both explorers, we both probe for sites and we both hack/do the minigame) a single NPC would destroy us.

So the devs should improve the loot (bring it on par of what's currently on Tranquillity, just be careful to maintain the same isk per person if the site is done with two people) and remove NPC spawns completely or give us explorer an option to deactivate them with the minigame (i.e. deal with NPCs without weapons).
Arriaz
TxivYawg
#84 - 2013-05-20 11:23:15 UTC
Its a novel idea: Being able to use a covops frig at a professional site without getting killed by rats. Killed by players? Sure but not rats.

I watched the fanfest videos. I remember CCP whatshisface say that it did not make sense that rats you be hanging around sites that are 1000s of years old. I agree. Finally I can use a ship dedicated to scanning, whether it be scouting/hunting/exploring, and not have to bring a separate vessel to run the site!

But wait! Now rats might spawn? Oh well, CCP has fooled us before!

However the idea of allowing SKILLED players to successfully hack a site AND prevent a spawn, well bring on the suspense! After all said covops pilot will have to watch D scan, enjoy a pointless click fest mini "game" and collect worthless loot all at the same time! Let the good times roll!

Shameless plug: I am selling this exploration character in the character bizarre if anyone is interested.
Hkicsi
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#85 - 2013-05-20 15:39:11 UTC
Just an other aspect.
Last time when I checked the hacking mechanism on SISI, it was the same like normal-space.(loot-explosion)
I tried just one time, but my experiment : the loot was the 1/4-1/5 of the normal.( ancient relics of course...sorry but don't really want to take care about hand weapons, data sheets and other useless stuff )

WH is the one of the hardest challenge of EVE-PVE, and I don't believe people will be happy when their work ( tanking and killing sleepers, or just stay alive between them ) will be mostly fruitless.

If there will be much less ancient relics how much will the price of the t3 ships and subsystems?
This will kill the T3 manufacturing, i think.Sad

Well I'm gonna buy as much subsystem bpc as I can Twisted


Brooks Puuntai
Solar Nexus.
#86 - 2013-05-20 16:37:31 UTC
Hkicsi wrote:
Just an other aspect.
Last time when I checked the hacking mechanism on SISI, it was the same like normal-space.(loot-explosion)
I tried just one time, but my experiment : the loot was the 1/4-1/5 of the normal.( ancient relics of course...sorry but don't really want to take care about hand weapons, data sheets and other useless stuff )

WH is the one of the hardest challenge of EVE-PVE, and I don't believe people will be happy when their work ( tanking and killing sleepers, or just stay alive between them ) will be mostly fruitless.

If there will be much less ancient relics how much will the price of the t3 ships and subsystems?
This will kill the T3 manufacturing, i think.Sad

Well I'm gonna buy as much subsystem bpc as I can Twisted




This change should only apply to known space and not WH. Though I haven't been into a WH yet to test it out, is it?

CCP's Motto: If it isn't broken, break it. If it is broken, ignore it. Improving NPE / Dynamic New Eden

Traiori
Going Critical
#87 - 2013-05-21 19:55:55 UTC
Brooks Puuntai wrote:


This change should only apply to known space and not WH. Though I haven't been into a WH yet to test it out, is it?




All radars etc. are being changed to Pinata systems is my understanding.
Freyya
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#88 - 2013-05-22 00:05:10 UTC
After somewhat extensive testing of the new feature that is the loot pinata i can say this:

Planetary Interaction was changed from a click-a-thron for a reason. Now you're introducing it again in exploration?
Incoming RSI remarks (though less than what PI was originally)

Other than that it's what has been said in the thread already.
Small cans and brackets not on overview
collision models - getting stuck chasing the loot
totally unrelated and useless clickfest with no real purpose other than to keep you there for some time hacking mini-game
unclear mechanics of when to click a can and when not (as in will i lose one if i click another or do i have to wait till that one can i clicked dissapears or something?)
the most annoying camera feature ever invented when trying to click a field of small dots on your screen. Yay for rollercoaster camera.
uhhh, loottables? wtf is this? if i want larger quantities of small arms or documents or whatever i'll go heist NPC haulers ffs. less fuss too!
how the hell is bringing a friend to this going to be more enjoyable than going solo exploration? so i can have someone on standby clicking dscan all the time while i try to click the growing mess of dots? It's called forced gameplay, which doesnt belong in a sandbox...

I loved it when i heard you where going to make exploration more immersive, add spacescapes and new visuals and improve that part of EvE which has been sorely lacking. As it stands now however it still feels like empty space, nothing looks like it was abandoned 100's or 1000's of years ago, there's no real incentive to specialise in exploration (lore wise, great discoveries, making a name for finding peices of puzzle and putting it all together...all that kind of stuff) not really any new stunning visuals (next to some strange looking apparatus which need to get hacked by clicking some before you can click some more) and some more less than underwhelming features of this revamped exploration.

I'm sure you made it modular so it can be improved on at a later date, but i've heard that song before. Sorry...

All in all? Very underwhelming, lacking in the "what's the actual point of hacking mini-game" department, all-in click-o-thon and then some.
I'd much rather have the current combat sites as they seem to give me more of a satisfactory feel than current SiSi mechanics. Again...Sorry....
Johan Toralen
IIIJIIIITIIII
#89 - 2013-05-22 00:59:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Johan Toralen
Freyya wrote:

I'm sure you made it modular so it can be improved on at a later date, but i've heard that song before. Sorry...


That's the scary part. I mean just look at the last expansion Retribution. They haven't changed a thing about the bounty system since then despite it not working as it was intended and advertised.
I'm afraid after Odyssey CCP will just move on to the next half assed expansion and Exploration will be another step child that remains in its poor shape for a long time.

This just in, Jonny Pew's first impressions on youtube. He doesn't seem very thrilled and keep in mind he's a very polite person. The comments speak a clearer language:

Explorer's Log: Odyssey Exploration Relic site test on Singularity server

Explorer's Log: Odyssey Exploration Data site test on Singularity server
Xain deSleena
420 Enterprises.
#90 - 2013-05-28 00:43:16 UTC
I had a go in 0.0 yesterday with a Relic site using an Analyzer II module. My first impressions were wow this is different and fun, however my fun seemed to wane after clicking so many times to only fail at my attempt to hack the container. I would have to say that the amount of left mouse clicks seems to have increased dramatically in this little corner of EVE.

Previously you would only click one time on a can and let your Analyzer mod cycle until either successful or unsuccessful then click a second time to open the container and a third time to loot the container. So three clicks in all per container. Now after clicking a container to Analyze you then have to go through perhaps 50 clicks to try and hack the container. So after a few attempts at this my left-clicking ability was pretty worn out.

I really don't like the sound of my mouse clicks over and over and over again. I thought the whole idea was fun but you could limit the mouse clicking by making the triangular grid smaller.

I was imagining myself clicking to my hearts content while not noticing that local had spiked because the hacking game takes up a lot of my screenspace and being caught in the middle of my click click click game. I am sure a lot of people will die while doing this once it goes live.

When I was successful to hack a container I had no idea about the floating cans that soon disappear. They were rather small and the words that appeared when you hovered over the cans seemed very small. I think I got one can and was surprised to see it move towards my ship as if I had a magic tractor beam installed on my ship.

After all the trouble to hack a container and then find your goods floating off into space only to disappear because you cannot catch them all was a disappointment.

I have had my fun on SISI but will not be chasing cans or clicking aimlessly for hours on end to get a few scrap metals and some T1 salvage.

This explorer will be retired come Odyssey :(

It just seems a lot of hard work for little gain so I did like the hacking part but just too many clicks for my liking and I will not be chasing cans, can't I just pick up the loot like I did before?

Manssell
OmiHyperMultiNationalDrunksConglomerate
#91 - 2013-05-28 01:45:43 UTC
Ruze wrote:

I'm of the mindset that rewarding simultaneous team play is a benefit. But as it stands now, rewards to NOT equal out. I haven't come up with a better way to reward multiple players, while not rewarding multi-boxers, while not leaving a player to feel as if he's missing out.


This is kinda bugging me too about this whole loot spew mechanic, it just feels so damn artificial. Why not reward group play the same way group play is rewarded in every other part of the game, by being more efficient either in time or fire power? I mean that's why people group up doing everything else, because they can do it faster or more effect than a solo player, but a solo player can usually still accomplish the task, just slower. Incursions are a great example of this, group play because of the scale, not the mechanic. If they really wanted to encourage group play why not just design DED and hacking plexs that are done faster and better with two or more people instead of loot spew?

Why is exploration being singled out to have this awful mechanic introduced to encourage group play to the annoyance of solo players? I mean I don't get a targeting range penalty if there are three reds on grid with me and I'm alone, I just may loose since the force is bigger. Mission runners don't get more rats, or less loot if they hit the gate solo, they just take longer to run. Industrials don't get a benefit to invention specs if two people submit a job instead of one.

And frankly right now, as it is on TQ exploration is more efficient to do with two or more people (That most people know this and just don't already group up I think says something about the misguidedness of CCP's goals here). One can scan, the others clear rats and hack sites. The solo guy has to go back and get a different ship, refit or multibox, and multiboxing is perfectly acceptable to CCP in every other part of the game so why care here? If someone can loose a ship to a multiboxer jumping his three alts into a fight then why the bloody ell can they not run two accounts to make the isk to replace the ship they lost to the multiboxer CCP likes?