These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Market Discussions

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
Previous page123
 

Does the stock market even exist?
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Adunh Slavy
#41 - 2013-05-10 03:20:26 UTC
Umar Umarhabib wrote:
I think Bonds and Securities would be a viable market, if CCP implement some kind of Real Money Escrow system, that's connected to an In-Game bond system.


I suspect the legal hurdles for that sort of thing are significant.

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt
Umar Umarhabib
Doomheim
#42 - 2013-05-10 04:07:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Umar Umarhabib
Adunh Slavy wrote:
Umar Umarhabib wrote:
I think Bonds and Securities would be a viable market, if CCP implement some kind of Real Money Escrow system, that's connected to an In-Game bond system.


I suspect the legal hurdles for that sort of thing are significant.


I don't think there would be that many legal hurdles, just need a few online contracts where people can click "I Agree".

It's kind of like Blizzard Account Balance.

Except in this case, the Account Balance would be used to secure the Principle of the Bond, and CCP can use it to earn interest, or do other stuff, during the term of the Bond.
Caleb Ayrania
TarNec
Invisible Exchequer
#43 - 2013-05-10 17:09:22 UTC
Real Money collateral is not needed and def would never be supported by ccp in a million years..

Use PLEX, and player 3rd party.. Same function.

the whole point is dying with all this talk of making it "safe".. EVE is not supposed to be safe, and the sandbox is supposed to work without any intervening from ccp.

A stock exchange should NOT have anything remotely like it..

We only need the tools to let the players actually operate something like this, and see how it develops. Asking for feature creeping or ccp oversight and security is a waste of time. It will only make ccp even less interested in the concept, since the hassle would not be worth it..

So stay on functional needs and how PLAYERS can make it work..
Umar Umarhabib
Doomheim
#44 - 2013-05-10 17:57:49 UTC
Caleb Ayrania wrote:
Real Money collateral is not needed and def would never be supported by ccp in a million years..

Use PLEX, and player 3rd party.. Same function.

the whole point is dying with all this talk of making it "safe".. EVE is not supposed to be safe, and the sandbox is supposed to work without any intervening from ccp.

A stock exchange should NOT have anything remotely like it..

We only need the tools to let the players actually operate something like this, and see how it develops. Asking for feature creeping or ccp oversight and security is a waste of time. It will only make ccp even less interested in the concept, since the hassle would not be worth it..

So stay on functional needs and how PLAYERS can make it work..



If the intended goal is for Eve Online to be Anarchy, then I guess you're right.
Adunh Slavy
#45 - 2013-05-10 18:25:44 UTC
Caleb Ayrania wrote:


So stay on functional needs and how PLAYERS can make it work..




Yeah, let people shoot those in default.

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt
Umar Umarhabib
Doomheim
#46 - 2013-05-10 20:30:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Umar Umarhabib
Adunh Slavy wrote:
Caleb Ayrania wrote:


So stay on functional needs and how PLAYERS can make it work..




Yeah, let people shoot those in default.


I guess people are missing the part where I said it's an Optional system, directly in competition with non-escrowed Bonds?

So it's still a free market. It would be like Government Bonds vs. Private Bonds.

Players still have the option and freedom of non-escrowed bonds.
Caleb Ayrania
TarNec
Invisible Exchequer
#47 - 2013-05-10 20:53:45 UTC
Adunh Slavy wrote:
Caleb Ayrania wrote:


So stay on functional needs and how PLAYERS can make it work..




Yeah, let people shoot those in default.


Exactly. We already have plenty of options like that.. Also if we could convince ccp to make a public visible standing feature we could develop proper blacklists and ways to make actual consequences for defaulters.

We do not need any npc / ccp involvement, we just need tools and features to make it possible to do it ourselves.

Plenty of partial success have already been reached, we just need a few tweaks and options to make this work. Then later ccp can do what they usually do take players ideas and successes and improve them into something more official. First we need the wild west and then we can get more civilized later.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#48 - 2013-05-11 01:39:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Caleb Ayrania wrote:
Adunh Slavy wrote:
Caleb Ayrania wrote:


So stay on functional needs and how PLAYERS can make it work..




Yeah, let people shoot those in default.


Exactly. We already have plenty of options like that.. Also if we could convince ccp to make a public visible standing feature we could develop proper blacklists and ways to make actual consequences for defaulters.

We do not need any npc / ccp involvement, we just need tools and features to make it possible to do it ourselves.

Plenty of partial success have already been reached, we just need a few tweaks and options to make this work. Then later ccp can do what they usually do take players ideas and successes and improve them into something more official. First we need the wild west and then we can get more civilized later.



I'd like to remind the market enthusiasts (I consider myself one!) that having CCP invest time and resources into something with unknown and potentially very small grip on the player base is not going to happen.

Furthermore, knowing how CCP development tends to be done, they would need to open the umpteenth can of ancient worms and review code behind markets and shares management.

All of this for a feature that in the various attempts done in the past would cater to just two dozens guys that would actually do something more than just check the new feature out and then forget about it.

Just look at the various exchanges, even the most known (Block's) is basically a barren desert. Not because of lack of shares, but because of lack of players willing to trade (and then take dividends from) those shares.

I have done an exchange myself, with 5 kinds of shares (funds shares but still...). That too attracted 27 (IIRC) people, not more.

In both cases (mine and Block), trust was not really an issue (so, the biggest road block was taken care of), they still gained no traction.

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
Kara Books
Deal with IT.
#49 - 2013-05-11 01:50:56 UTC
I confirm, I, asked my best friends weather they wanted a curupt government or a government that dealt candy, they all chose candy =( sowwwy
Adunh Slavy
#50 - 2013-05-11 01:57:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Adunh Slavy
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:

...


I'd be more concerned with new bug versus old ones. CCP's quality has gone up considerably in the past years however. Also, there is no requirement that whatever financial instrument they create, is connected to shares in anyway.

Exposure is an issue too, and the added burden on the player to deal with some extra web site. Something in the game will have a lot more exposure and be much simpler for players.

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt
Caleb Ayrania
TarNec
Invisible Exchequer
#51 - 2013-05-11 03:22:50 UTC
Geez..

There are people hammering on gates to get into Jita during Burn Jita..

The reason "no one" uses metagame market is because its only known to that mentioned handful..

There have never been an actual MD common group that could and would promote these things..

If there was an ingame aspect that other players would notice, then something like that would develop..

Problem with many of the experiments being conducted now and in the past is they are usually one man bands. Without more participation and scale its not going to attract much attention. No matter how trusted a person is the hit by bus and EVE burn out is among the biggest risks, and most serious potential clients know this..
Vienna Valentine
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#52 - 2013-05-19 21:00:15 UTC
Caleb Ayrania wrote:

Problem with many of the experiments being conducted now and in the past is they are usually one man bands. Without more participation and scale its not going to attract much attention. No matter how trusted a person is the hit by bus and EVE burn out is among the biggest risks, and most serious potential clients know this.


Challenge accepted.
Caleb Ayrania
TarNec
Invisible Exchequer
#53 - 2013-05-20 01:30:41 UTC
Vienna Valentine wrote:
Caleb Ayrania wrote:

Problem with many of the experiments being conducted now and in the past is they are usually one man bands. Without more participation and scale its not going to attract much attention. No matter how trusted a person is the hit by bus and EVE burn out is among the biggest risks, and most serious potential clients know this.


Challenge accepted.


Whats the challenge again?
Previous page123