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Sun Tzu: an almost necessity!
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Ginger Barbarella
#41 - 2013-05-20 01:29:36 UTC
stoicfaux wrote:
Chin MonWang wrote:
Having read many comments on warfare on the forums made me realy wonder: "how many of the pilots did actually REALY take an effort to study the both tactical and strategical riches offered by the writings of Sun Tzu", since real knowledge of the Arts of War would of course for most represent an enormous benefit during their strivings to get to be succesful to some extend in space warfare (high/low/nul sec)

So, I am curious to learn if there are any other pilots that possess a real understanding and knowledge of the Sun Tzu!??

And what would Sun Tzu say about the strategic and tactical value of spending one's time playing war in an internet game about imaginary spaceships?




Sun Tzu was probably a fat neckbeard that lived in his mom's tent...

"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac
Nex apparatu5
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#42 - 2013-05-20 02:04:03 UTC
Machiavelli will serve you better than Sun Tzu when playing eve.
Grog Barrel
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#43 - 2013-05-20 02:05:32 UTC
what does tzu say about ddos?
Nexus Day
Lustrevik Trade and Travel Bureau
#44 - 2013-05-20 02:44:32 UTC
I have read "The Fart of War". I think that is where the fog of war comes from.
Juno Libertas
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#45 - 2013-05-20 03:00:26 UTC
Decrypt my character bio :)
Tom Gerard
Glorious Nation of Kazakhstan
#46 - 2013-05-20 03:04:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Tom Gerard
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OK... THIS WILL /THREAD... but here we go.

If Sun Tzu REALLY looked at EVE, he would come to the conclusion..
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BUY PLEX.
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CRUSH YOUR ENEMIES FINANCIALLY
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BUY PLEX
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THE SPIRIT OF SUN TZU GOES BACK TO BEING DEAD.

Now with 100% less Troll.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#47 - 2013-05-20 03:05:30 UTC
Juno Libertas wrote:
Decrypt my character bio :)


It's not encrypted to begin with

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Tom Gerard
Glorious Nation of Kazakhstan
#48 - 2013-05-20 03:06:50 UTC
Andski wrote:
Juno Libertas wrote:
Decrypt my character bio :)


It's not encrypted to begin with


To be encrypted you need an:

Al Gore Rythim

Now with 100% less Troll.
amGreat
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#49 - 2013-05-20 03:26:55 UTC
sun tzu is like all of 20 pages long, anyone that hasn't read it is a ****.

The art of war excluding the chapter on fire is conflict broken down to its taoist minimal form. It has great alignment onto eve, a game centered on conflict.


"All warfare is based on deception ... Hold out baits to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and crush him." Does that sound like it fits in eve? http://suntzusaid.com/book/1/20 Yeah most lines map into eve.
Chin MonWang
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#50 - 2013-05-20 03:27:45 UTC
thx for all of your interesting contributions. Some comments indeed show real insight and deeper understanding of the core values represented by the writings of Sun Tzu. I will not comment on or argue with any of the individual contributions since that is not the purpose of this thread. However, it would be interesting, I assume, to highlight some thoughts of a more phylosophical and psychological nature, which are real close related to the timeless intrinsic values of the Sun Tzu:

The Art of War, it mainly focusses on CORE HUMAN NATURE(!) Leads to the question: "did nature of mankind realy change in only a couple of thousands of years? Our genes and thus basic instincs did surely not change just overnight?!" So, what does this all tell us about the concepts of both strategical and tactical warfare?

And to those reading the entries made and wondering: "what the h*** are they all talking about? Isn't that Arts of War simply outdated , so old, so how can it possibly have any effect on present day life!? My answer would be: the writings about the laws of gravity, for instance, are also old, they still have an immense impact on daily life.
Super spikinator
Hegemonous Conscripts
#51 - 2013-05-20 03:28:26 UTC
stoicfaux wrote:
Chin MonWang wrote:
Having read many comments on warfare on the forums made me realy wonder: "how many of the pilots did actually REALY take an effort to study the both tactical and strategical riches offered by the writings of Sun Tzu", since real knowledge of the Arts of War would of course for most represent an enormous benefit during their strivings to get to be succesful to some extend in space warfare (high/low/nul sec)

So, I am curious to learn if there are any other pilots that possess a real understanding and knowledge of the Sun Tzu!??

And what would Sun Tzu say about the strategic and tactical value of spending one's time playing war in an internet game about imaginary spaceships?




Probably what is this strange building, how are those pictures moving on the screen, how can I ask you questions in a language that I do not know and why does the air smell like smoke but I cannot see fire.

Probably, if he didn't die from culture shock he would approve. Maybe not of the general chatter. I think he might come around to the idea of "drinking tears" eventually but the idea that a person would openly act as a victim because of an action taken against them in a place of almost zero consequence then talk about it openly on a forum where the people will again openly mock them would be a bit confusing, especially if in all cases there is anonymity.
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#52 - 2013-05-20 03:28:28 UTC
Read Sun Tzu?

Hell, I bet that ninety-nine percent of this forum's posters don't even know how to properly pronounce his name.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
NEONOVUS
Mindstar Technology
Goonswarm Federation
#53 - 2013-05-20 03:28:42 UTC
A blue donut just means you dont have a center to deal with when you kill them. - Neonovus
When you are in nullsec, pack for an extended trip. No one is coming to save you. - Neonovus
EvE Online is a horrible and fun game. Which you are decides if you will succeed. - Neonovus
Get the pod! Get the pod! Get my corpse!-Grideris
A book written before some one invented the gun and from a culture where a man strumming a lute was deemed a threat to 10k people, is not a very valid tactics manual. - Neonovus
If you keep losing ships to the same guy, you might want to stop shooting the DED agent- Neonovus
Nexus Day
Lustrevik Trade and Travel Bureau
#54 - 2013-05-20 04:36:17 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Read Sun Tzu?

Hell, I bet that ninety-nine percent of this forum's posters don't even know how to properly pronounce his name.

Proper pronunciation =/= comprehension.

Pretty sure that many who do know how to pronounce his name correctly, and can even quote passages, would be hopeless in understanding or executing his ideology. Too often knowledge is just another form of ignorance.
Klymer
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#55 - 2013-05-20 04:54:10 UTC
Nothing wrong with reading books on tactics and strategy.

Just remember that your opponent might have read the same ones.
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#56 - 2013-05-20 05:16:42 UTC
i liked the part near the end where it is revealed the antagonist is sun tzu's lost twin who he thought was dead
Amarant'h
Council of Exiles
Brave Collective
#57 - 2013-05-20 05:50:49 UTC
Well.. Bible is an old book too with full of crap, and still its used to make war even nowadays.
Vera Algaert
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#58 - 2013-05-20 06:05:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Vera Algaert
I think reading books on (military) strategy can be a boon to your EVE play as they can make you reevaluate all the views you take for granted from a radically different point of view.

Reading them as a manual, however, will often lead to disaster as they tend to rely on implicit assumptions and context that is simply not given in EVE - a universe where you wage war for entertainment.

Amarant'h wrote:
Well.. Bible is an old book too with full of crap, and still its used to make war even nowadays.

you might want to have a look at the military record of ancient Israel/Judah...

(they were basically the punching ball of Egypt and whomever ruled Mesopotamia)

.
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
#59 - 2013-05-20 06:22:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Akirei Scytale
As someone who has actually read it, I'm not entirely certain how the vast passages mostly describing how to identify your enemy's numbers by the amount of dust their march kicks up, what kind of weather is advantageous to attacking, and how to identify your enemy's morale by how the hold their lances translates into internet space warfare.

Whenever I see people reference it as some bible of strategy I just shake my head. 90% of it is incredibly specific to ancient chinese warfare, and the other 10% is essentially extremely basic strategic thinking 101. Anyone with a strategic mind already knows everything he wrote down. Things like "win a fight before you commit to it" are basic common sense.

Sun Tzu was brilliant IN HIS CONTEXT. He was one fo the few Chinese generals during the warring states era that took the time to thoroughly plan every engagement while keeping the big picture in mind. Most of them saw their foe and attacked. He sat back and planned. That is why he is revered - not because he was some grand master of strategy, but because he actually used it. If you were leading an army of spearmen through ancient china his teachings would be invaluable. In any other situation, if you learned something from it, you probably shouldn't be in the business of strategy.
Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#60 - 2013-05-20 06:22:24 UTC
Main ideas behind it are pretty basic and after reading the thing you'll probably think, "Well, I knew that stuff". The good part about it is that you are reminded about those simple things as they are somehow easy to forget in everyday life's fuss.

The problem though often lies in application of those guidelines to particular situation, and this is where your own mind should shine.

Future of T3 cruisers - multi-tool they aspired to be instead of sledgehammer they have become