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"Clean up on aisle Moon XX"
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Colonel Goatbanger
Doomheim
#1 - 2013-05-20 00:02:28 UTC
So I was running around in 0.5-0.7 systems with the intent of finding a spot to put up a POS in order to do some BPO ME/PE research and copying but I kept running into anchored POS:es that were offline.

In order to combat this "littering" of space but also to encourage corps/players to take responsibility for their i propose/suggest the following.

If a corp becomes 'closed' due to zero membership the POS becomes unanchored and claimable/salvageable by some enterprising pilot.

If a corp (POS owner) fails to maintain the anchored status (for example set at intervals of 30-90-180-270-360 days based on anchoring skill level) after the POS goes offline (lack of fuel blocks and starbase charters) the POS becomes unanchored and claimable/salvageable by some enterprising pilot.

Consider it as the wear-and-tear of space on anchored modules gradually eating away a the anchor point.
--
I might be barking up the wrong tree here but it is rather frustrating to see anchored POS:es offline and unused in 0.5-0.7 space - merely sitting there taking up real estate space.

So if you think I am barking mad or perhaps on to something leave a comment and it would be nice if a developer could chime in to say whether or not they have considered anything like this to combat the misuse of the anchoring mechanic.

//Colonel GB
DeLindsay
Galaxies Fall
#2 - 2013-05-20 00:19:58 UTC
Quote:
If a corp (POS owner) fails to maintain the anchored status (for example set at intervals of 30-90-180-270-360 days based on anchoring skill level) after the POS goes offline (lack of fuel blocks and starbase charters) the POS becomes unanchored and claimable/salvageable by some enterprising pilot.

All Highsec POS's should require monthly Charters whether active or not, period. That one change alone would probably drop in half the number of dead space junk clogging up New Eden.

The Operative: "There are a lot of innocent people being killed in the air right now".

Capt. Malcolm Reynolds: "You have no idea how true that is".
Colonel Goatbanger
Doomheim
#3 - 2013-05-20 00:43:34 UTC
DeLindsay wrote:
Quote:
If a corp (POS owner) fails to maintain the anchored status (for example set at intervals of 30-90-180-270-360 days based on anchoring skill level) after the POS goes offline (lack of fuel blocks and starbase charters) the POS becomes unanchored and claimable/salvageable by some enterprising pilot.

All Highsec POS's should require monthly Charters whether active or not, period. That one change alone would probably drop in half the number of dead space junk clogging up New Eden.


Agreed. It would prevent alot of the littering and allow for new avenues of making a living in EVE. :)
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#4 - 2013-05-20 00:51:46 UTC
Can you not just wardec the owners and shoot some of them? >_>
Colonel Goatbanger
Doomheim
#5 - 2013-05-20 01:10:22 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:
Can you not just wardec the owners and shoot some of them? >_>


Why exactly does everything have to be resolved by this? I don't have the kind of ISK which would allow me to wage war. I am new at this game and research/industry and studying the micro/macro nature of the market is where my interests lie in this game.

My argument is rather in regards to the need for more game mechanics that provide a perishable environment and not always the forced hand of war. Space destroys things (radiation/meteors/asteroids etc) if they are left unattended and/or suffer from lack of 'maintenance'. Besides, trying to get a research slot in an NPC stations is an absolute nightmare.
Hesod Adee
Perkone
Caldari State
#6 - 2013-05-20 02:23:23 UTC
I've got a better proposal: If a POS has been unanchored but offline for more than 5 minutes, then anyone can start the unanchoring process. The 5 minute delay is just there to prevent people swooping in just as you anchor it and starting the unanchoring, preventing you onlining it.

Now the only way a POS will stay up is if the owners keep it online or it's in a spot that nobody cares about.

Maybe require a specific module to hack the POS. Maybe require the hacking skill. All that matters is making sure that, when the owner stops caring about a POS, then it because very easy for other people to remove it.

Danika Princip wrote:
Can you not just wardec the owners and shoot some of them? >_>

How do you suggest they avoid the boredom of a high sec POS shoot ?

I only see one option. Shooting it with a laser BS while he sleeps. But that requires a few conditions:
- He has the skills for laser battleships.
- He is certain that the POS owner won't show up.
- He can leave his computer on overnight.
- He doesn't sleep through downtime.

I've got a better question: Why should grabbing a high sec moon and planting an offline large POS on so you can sell the location to someone else be risk free ?

Why should junk left behind by someone not even paying their subscription be a problem for people who are paying for Eve ?

Why should someone be allowed to keep hold of a moon when they aren't willing to pay to fuel their POS when there is someone else wanting that moon for themselves ?
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#7 - 2013-05-20 02:26:46 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
Colonel Goatbanger wrote:
Danika Princip wrote:
Can you not just wardec the owners and shoot some of them? >_>


Why exactly does everything have to be resolved by this?

Why should the game have to do things for you? You want the moon? Go get it.

Colonel Goatbanger wrote:
I don't have the kind of ISK which would allow me to wage war. I am new at this game and research/industry and studying the micro/macro nature of the market is where my interests lie in this game.

That doesn't mean you shouldn't have to diversify a bit. Even seasoned PvPers have to perform actions and deal with mechanics they don't like.

For example: I hate dealing with industry. My local industrialist usually will build things for me (for a small fee) but when he's on "vacation" I have to find ways to build the ship BPCs I collect.
Another example: Some of my peers LOATHE PvE in all its forms... but sometimes they have to do it so they can afford more ships and mods for PvP (because only player on player violence is interesting them them).

Colonel Goatbanger wrote:
My argument is rather in regards to the need for more game mechanics that provide a perishable environment and not always the forced hand of war.

Sometimes it doesn't have to come to that. If the corp is still active then see if you can use diplomacy to get what you want (ex. ask them to take down their POS if they are not using it, see if you could "buy" the space from them, etc). If they refuse... use war as a threat. Befriend some PvPers to add legitimacy to this threat.

If they are completely inactive then there is no harm in declaring war. They won't even notice it.

Colonel Goatbanger wrote:
Besides, trying to get a research slot in an NPC stations is an absolute nightmare.

It is... and I think it should stay that way (in high-sec at least).


One last thing...
"Players are not entitled to success. The most aspirational goals are coveted by many but reached by few."
~ CCP Soundwave (Fanfest 2013)

How did you Veterans start?
BlakPhoenix
Load Up Blast Everything
DARKNESS.
#8 - 2013-05-20 02:37:46 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:
Can you not just wardec the owners and shoot some of them? >_>


Can you wardec a closed corporation/alliance?
Utremi Fasolasi
La Dolce Vita
#9 - 2013-05-20 04:12:33 UTC
BlakPhoenix wrote:
Danika Princip wrote:
Can you not just wardec the owners and shoot some of them? >_>


Can you wardec a closed corporation/alliance?


Ew. Yes. This. If the corp is closed and their spaceflotsam is still mucking up the spacelanes, there should be some mechanic to clean it up. You can only wardec an active corp. Otherwise shooting it would bring CONCORD in hisec. In lowsec it doesn't really matter.

Maybe it could go "free shoot" or something if the corp closes and it remains anchored so that any one motivated can come and grind away the tower with friends. Or call up a posse in Local to pew it together in an ad hoc fleet.
Commander Ted
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#10 - 2013-05-20 04:49:01 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:
Can you not just wardec the owners and shoot some of them? >_>


Yea, everything in eve is solved by doing it the MOST BORING WAY POSSIBLE.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec.
Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
#11 - 2013-05-21 19:15:29 UTC
Colonel Goatbanger wrote:
Original Idea


I would see this as a bit like when a Captain of a naval vessel finds a wreck and claims "salvage rights". These are protected by International Law in RL. Might even lead onto a "Salvage Reclamation Vessel" as a new ship that locks, tractors and carves these behemoths up Blink

A +1 from me on this idea.

[b]Fast Character Switching "XP Stylee" Undocking - More Routes Out of Station[/b] Here's my tear jar > |_| < Fill 'er up!
Vincent Gaines
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#12 - 2013-05-21 19:20:14 UTC
Or just allow the hacking skill to affect anchored but offline POSs.

fly up to anchored/offline POS, target, hack, and *pop* unanchored POS.

For fun, have it make you a suspect.

Not a diplo. 

The above post was edited for spelling.
Xavier Thorm
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#13 - 2013-05-21 20:28:15 UTC
Vincent Gaines wrote:
Or just allow the hacking skill to affect anchored but offline POSs.

fly up to anchored/offline POS, target, hack, and *pop* unanchored POS.

For fun, have it make you a suspect.


I wouldn't want it done exactly that way, but as part of some comprehensive update to hacking (which I think desperately needs to happen since there is so much potential there) YES!
Isaak Artorius
Perkone
Caldari State
#14 - 2013-07-27 15:55:40 UTC
Sorry to necro this thread but this seems to be of some dire looking at from the devs.

Too much anchored space trash presently and not enough online.

I am for sale! 74M SP Tengu/Industrial/R&D Pilot!

Toxic Paradox
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#15 - 2013-07-27 16:05:29 UTC
A possible solution to closed corp POS's would be; 30 days after the corp is closed their anchored/offline structures become un-anchored and claimable, or Concord comes and cleans it up.
Isaak Artorius
Perkone
Caldari State
#16 - 2013-07-27 16:10:15 UTC
I would go further and say that if a POS has been offline (regardless if the corp is open or closed) for more than 180 days it becomes space salvage.

I am for sale! 74M SP Tengu/Industrial/R&D Pilot!

SGT FUNYOUN
Elysian Space Navy - 1st Fleet
#17 - 2013-07-27 17:20:29 UTC
Some of ya'll seem to be missing the point here.

There are POS that have been sitting dormant on a moon for the last 5 years.

They have been that way because the owner corp went under, and the corp pres rage-quit.

So you can wardec them all day long, but there is never going to BE a wardec because there is no one there to RESPOND to your wardec.

What the OP is proposing, is a way to take those old dormant POS, and either they decay into nothingness like a wreck does after 2 hours, or a player with the skill and money to run a POS, can go up to a dormant POS, un-anchor it or hack it, and either re-anchor it or slap their name and logo on the side, and turn on the Capacitors and start running their brand new POS.

And the OP is giving time frames of MONTHS instead of minutes, so that no one can just come in, blow you apart as you are anchoring your POS just before you turn it on, and then take your POS from you by waiting 5 minutes for the dormancy timer to run out.
Isaak Artorius
Perkone
Caldari State
#18 - 2013-07-27 17:24:58 UTC
SGT FUNYOUN wrote:
Some of ya'll seem to be missing the point here.

There are POS that have been sitting dormant on a moon for the last 5 years.

They have been that way because the owner corp went under, and the corp pres rage-quit.

So you can wardec them all day long, but there is never going to BE a wardec because there is no one there to RESPOND to your wardec.

What the OP is proposing, is a way to take those old dormant POS, and either they decay into nothingness like a wreck does after 2 hours, or a player with the skill and money to run a POS, can go up to a dormant POS, un-anchor it or hack it, and either re-anchor it or slap their name and logo on the side, and turn on the Capacitors and start running their brand new POS.

And the OP is giving time frames of MONTHS instead of minutes, so that no one can just come in, blow you apart as you are anchoring your POS just before you turn it on, and then take your POS from you by waiting 5 minutes for the dormancy timer to run out.


I'm all for what the OP is suggesting. I find that it would create more "responsible" gameplay in terms of asset management and what those assets do for you. If those assets become in a way forfeit due to lack of attention enterprising individuals should be able to reap the benefits of new career paths and at the same time provide adequate space for those of us who want to and have the time to delve into the industrial side of EVE.

I am for sale! 74M SP Tengu/Industrial/R&D Pilot!

Mole Guy
Bob's Bait and Tackle
#19 - 2013-07-27 18:06:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Mole Guy
this idea has been discussed before and i love it.
i would suggest that when a pos goes offline for a certain amount of time, one could hack it, enter the programming, tell the pos it belongs to you now, you refuel it and bring it back online under your flag.
no need to unanchor it, just scramble its memory and go. now all the mods are yours, their cargo, and all their value.
one could unanchor it if they desired and sell it or move it, whatever..

give the pos a CMOS battery. once it goes offline, the battery keep the program running. over time, that battery will decay and itll loose all parameters. then, once its hacked, itll enter default reboot mode and one can program it and take it over.
give it like 3 months. if a pos is down 3 months, it could be hacked and taken over. the program would take 24 hours to "take" into the memory and then it would be seated.

maybe put in it a change for the owner to come defend it if the corp is still active. once you attempt to hack it, itll send an alarm. they have 24 hours to reply and reprogram your hack or the tower becomes yours.