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PE & ME drop upon invention.
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Beltze Sorgin
BSSLD Explorations
#1 - 2011-11-04 09:26:43 UTC
I just had my 1st succesful invention Smile but when I looked at the T2 BPC I had made the ME had dropped from 20 from the BPC I used to -4!!! LIkewise the PE had dropped from 8 to -4!!!

Why did this happen?

Can I do domething about it or will this happen all the time?

Is there a formula that works out the drop in ME & PE?

Any advice would be most welcome Smile
sierra Orlenard
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2011-11-04 09:43:12 UTC
what was the bpo that you invented? also look in the isk 3.0, it shines a lot of light on to stuff like that.
Tekota
The Freighter Factory
#3 - 2011-11-04 09:44:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Tekota
The ME and PE of the input print have no bearing whatsoever on the output levels - an ME0/PE0 print will produce the exact same ME/PE levels on the T2 BPC as a ME100/PE100 print would have done.

ME/PE levels on T2 BPCs are derived from the decryptors used, I'll dig out the formula but I suspect it'll be lurking in the sticky / evelopedia.

EDIT: http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Invention is probably a good place to start.
Beltze Sorgin
BSSLD Explorations
#4 - 2011-11-04 09:51:41 UTC
sierra Orlenard wrote:
what was the bpo that you invented? also look in the isk 3.0, it shines a lot of light on to stuff like that.


It was Hail M.

Thanx
sierra Orlenard
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2011-11-04 09:57:48 UTC
Tekota wrote:
The ME and PE of the input print have no bearing whatsoever on the output levels - an ME0/PE0 print will produce the exact same ME/PE levels on the T2 BPC as a ME100/PE100 print would have done.

ME/PE levels on T2 BPCs are derived from the decryptors used, I'll dig out the formula but I suspect it'll be lurking in the sticky / evelopedia.

EDIT: http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Invention is probably a good place to start.




just download the free isk 3.0. it has the formula and is easier to understand then the eve wiki.
Cyniac
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2011-11-04 09:57:54 UTC
Beltze Sorgin wrote:
Can I do domething about it or will this happen all the time?


It's going to happen all the time, as it is never ever profitable to use decryptors for ammunition.

Factor it in, profit.


Beltze Sorgin
BSSLD Explorations
#7 - 2011-11-04 09:59:48 UTC
I downloaded isk 3.0 & yep it'll always happen unless I use a decryptor.

Many thanks all & fly safe Big smile
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University
Ivy League
#8 - 2011-11-04 13:31:25 UTC
Rule of thumb that I was given is that you only ever use decryptors on T2 ships of the cruiser class and above (where each individually invented item is worth at least 80-100M ISK).

Now, it's not necessarily a bad thing to invent off of researched T1 BPOs - because at some point you will have to make (or buy) the base T1 item in order to manufacture the T2 item. But it's not a requirement either. A plain unresearched BPO works just as well.

(Which is something that I would like to see changed - allow us to influence the ME/PE by as much as +10 points by using researched BPOs for the raw copies. Maybe divide the BPO's ME/PE by 10 when creating the T2 BPC, or use the square root or cube root of the BPO's ME/PE when calculating the T2 BPCs ME/PE. It would definitely help competition against those with T2 BPOs.)
VaMei
Meafi Corp
#9 - 2011-11-04 15:06:08 UTC
Scrapyard Bob wrote:
(Which is something that I would like to see changed - allow us to influence the ME/PE by as much as +10 points by using researched BPOs for the raw copies. Maybe divide the BPO's ME/PE by 10 when creating the T2 BPC, or use the square root or cube root of the BPO's ME/PE when calculating the T2 BPCs ME/PE. It would definitely help competition against those with T2 BPOs.)


... that and give us decryptors that are viable for modules & ammo, even if it means creating new ones that may only be used for modules and/or ammo.

IMO, if they'd allow the square root, or even the cube root, of the T1 BPOs ME/PE to offset the -4/-4 invention base, we'd have something sensible without greatly diminishing the dominance of the T2 BPO.

Fake edit: This is not a T2 BPO whine, as much as they cost to buy (see also opportunity cost of not selling) they should be dominant over invention.
This is a wish for a buff to invention.
Lady Ayeipsia
BlueWaffe
#10 - 2011-11-04 19:31:30 UTC
Scrapyard Bob wrote:

Now, it's not necessarily a bad thing to invent off of researched T1 BPOs - because at some point you will have to make (or buy) the base T1 item in order to manufacture the T2 item. But it's not a requirement either. A plain unresearched BPO works just as well.


Note, this does not apply to ammo. The materials required for manufacturing ammo never includes a quantity of base ammo. This only applies to ships and modules.

I do not believe t2 rig production requires a base item, but do not know.
Masra lor
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#11 - 2011-11-05 03:05:35 UTC
Lady Ayeipsia wrote:
Scrapyard Bob wrote:

Now, it's not necessarily a bad thing to invent off of researched T1 BPOs - because at some point you will have to make (or buy) the base T1 item in order to manufacture the T2 item. But it's not a requirement either. A plain unresearched BPO works just as well.


Note, this does not apply to ammo. The materials required for manufacturing ammo never includes a quantity of base ammo. This only applies to ships and modules.

I do not believe t2 rig production requires a base item, but do not know.


T2 rig production does not require a base item. And I think this goes without being said, always do the math BEFORE you do the invention. And Scrapyard Bob, decryptors are profitable on plenty of different jobs, not just T2 cruisers and above.
BornToDieAnotherDay
Tarazed Technology
#12 - 2011-11-05 07:50:48 UTC
Masra lor wrote:
And Scrapyard Bob, decryptors are profitable on plenty of different jobs, not just T2 cruisers and above.


He said it was a rule of thumb, and a fairly solid one too tbh.