Player Features and Ideas Discussion

It'd be both more useful in PVE and PVP. However, I doubt we'd see a nerf based on PVE because even with the buff it still won't be king of PVE.

-Liang

Ed: Also, who's to say the Golem isn't getting changed next? Why, the devs of course. They already told us what's coming up and that Marauders are quite far back on the backlog.

I too am unimpressed with the CNR's loss of its RoF bonus for mission oriented PvE. Tentative numbers: https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_CLlTV8bSxNZUhPMlQ2NFdJRzg/edit?usp=sharing

You want to look at TTK (time to kill.)

The "Cruise Buff" CNR (middle top) is a CNR with just the cruise buff, 7 launchers and 400 rig points. It generally performs better than the 8 launcher, Er bonus CNR (Odyssey CNR, upper right.)

The Odyssey CNR pretty matches the Cruise Golem if you put rigors on the Golem. On the down side, NPC defenders hurt the Golem.

However, the "Cruise Buff" CNR (with the RoF bonus intact) would out-perform a Javelin torpedo Golem and is very (too?) competitive with a CN Torp Golem.


On a side note, the SNI and Navy Typhoon have me concerned, especially the Navy Phoon with its 8.25 effective launchers and five sentries?

So let's take a wholistic look at what should be possible completion times for various ships in the spreadsheet.

I'm going to lead with these assertions:
- 4x CN BCU, 2x Rigor II, Flare II is the correct damage application setup.
- 4x CN BCU, BLA II, 2x Flare I is the correct raw damage setup.
- Eve-Survival is correct about what is in an Angel Haven (I've never run one)

Angel Haven (from Eve-Survival)
- Arch Gistum Liquidator: 5
- Arch Gistum Centurion: 3
- Gistatis Primus: 17
- Gist Seraphim: 4
- Gist Cherubim: 9
- Gist Malakim: 6
- Gist Throne: 5

Ship Completion Times

Rigor CNR (5% HW, 4 CN BCU):
- 1 Painter: 949.19
- 2 Painter: 924.86
- 3 Painter: 884.31

BLA CNR (5% HW, 4 CN BCU):
- 1 Painter: 952.5
- 2 Painter: 891.54
- 3 Painter: 891.54

Rigor Typhoon (5% HW, 4 CN BCU):
- 1 Painter: 906.56
- 2 Painter: 857.84
- 3 Painter: 857.84

BLA Typhoon (5% HW, 4 CN BCU):
- 1 Painter: 1022.95
- 2 Painter: 948.67
- 3 Painter: 834.27

BLA Typhoon (5% HW, 3 CN BCU):
- 1 Painter: 1115.49
- 2 Painter: 1069.3
- 3 Painter: 924.8

Rigor TFI (5% HW, 4 CN BCU):
- 1 Painter: 957.3
- 2 Painter: 916.75
- 3 Painter: 892.42

BLA TFI (5% HW, 4 CN BCU):
- 1 Painter: 1272.54
- 2 Painter: 922.02
- 3 Painter: 861.06

Rigor Golem (5% HW, 4 CN BCU):
- 1 Painter: 949.19
- 2 Painter: 924.86
- 3 Painter: 884.31

BLA Golem (5% HW, 4 CN BCU):
- 1 Painter: 952.5
- 2 Painter: 891.54
- 3 Painter: 830.58

Rigor SNI (5% HW, 4 CN BCU):
- 1 Painter: 1040.49
- 2 Painter: 906.56
- 3 Painter: 857.84

BLA SNI (5% HW, 4 CN BCU):
- 1 Painter: 1182.86
- 2 Painter: 994.35
- 3 Painter: 948.67

---

Rigor CNR (3% HW, 4 CN BCU):
- 1 Painter: 1043.73
- 2 Painter: 1018.89
- 3 Painter: 977.49

BLA CNR (3% HW, 4 CN BCU):
- 1 Painter: 1174.78
- 2 Painter: 980.28
- 3 Painter: 980.28

Rigor Typhoon (3% HW, 4 CN BCU):
- 1 Painter: 1087.37
- 2 Painter: 931.95
- 3 Painter: 931.95

BLA Typhoon (3% HW, 4 CN BCU):
- 1 Painter: 1127.26
- 2 Painter: 1050.39
- 3 Painter: 922.08

BLA Typhoon (3% HW, 3 CN BCU):
- 1 Painter: 1174.1
- 2 Painter: 1126.9
- 3 Painter: 997.1

Rigor TFI (3% HW, 4 CN BCU):
- 1 Painter: 1002.28
- 2 Painter: 935.96
- 3 Painter: 911.12

BLA TFI (3% HW, 4 CN BCU):
- 1 Painter: 1322.6
- 2 Painter: 941.38
- 3 Painter: 918.04

Rigor Golem (3% HW, 4 CN BCU):
- 1 Painter: 1085.18
- 2 Painter: 1018.89
- 3 Painter: 977.49

BLA Golem (3% HW, 4 CN BCU):
- 1 Painter: 1174.78
- 2 Painter: 980.28
- 3 Painter: 956.94

Rigor SNI (3% HW, 4 CN BCU):
- 1 Painter: 1137.13
- 2 Painter: 981.63
- 3 Painter: 963.0

BLA SNI (3% HW, 4 CN BCU):
- 1 Painter: 1283.78
- 2 Painter: 1097.06
- 3 Painter: 1050.39

---

Sorted 3 Painter, 5% HW Completion Times
BLA Golem: 830.58
BLA Typhoon: 834.27
Rigor Typhoon: 857.84
Rigor SNI: 857.84
BLA TFI: 861.06
Rigor CNR: 884.31
Rigor Golem: 884.31
BLA CNR: 891.54
Rigor TFI: 892.42
BLA Armor Phoon: 924.8
BLA SNI: 948.67

Now, at this point I'm going to interject these statements:
- This ignores the outsized drone bay on the Phoon and Phoon Fleet
- This ignores the 2 extra bonused slots on the Phoon Fleet
- 3 Painters on a Phoon is gonna be hard to do with 4 BCUs. But the rewards are pretty amazing.
- The Golem appears to be the most practical good performer.
- I ignored frigates on the assertion that they could be adequately dealt with via drones. Some ships (the Typhoon and Golem specifically) are particularly good at mowing down elite cruisers with precision. This is not modeled.

Ship Fit Commentary:
- Common CNR fits today have 1 painter, so the extra mid should allow for a 2 painter setup with relative comfort.
- It's relatively simple to squeeze 3 painters on a Golem and SNI due to the tank bonuses.
- It's relatively simple to squeeze 2 painters and 4 CN BCUs on a Phoon and TFI, but much harder to get 3/4. 3/3 is fairly easy.

So the ships we're most interested in looking at are in reality:
- 2 Painter TFI, Typhoon (4 BCU), CNR
- 3 Painter SNI, Golem, Typhoon (3 BCU)
- Cheap 3% HW, T2 BCU fits

Sorted Likely 5% Fits
BLA Golem: 830.58
Rigor SNI: 857.84
Rigor Typhoon (4 BCU, 2 Painter): 857.84
Rigor Golem: 884.31
BLA CNR: 891.54
Rigor TFI: 916.75
BLA TFI: 922.02
BLA Typhoon (3 BCU, 3 Painter): 924.8
Rigor CNR: 924.86
BLA Typhoon (4 BCU, 2 Painter): 948.67
BLA SNI: 948.67

Sorted Likely 3% Fits
Rigor Typhoon (4 BCU/2Painter): 931.95
Rigor TFI: 935.96
BLA TFI: 941.38
BLA Golem: 956.94
Rigor SNI: 963.0
Rigor Golem: 977.49
BLA Typhoon (3 BCU/3Painter): 997.1
BLA CNR: 980.28
Rigor CNR: 1018.89
BLA Typhoon (4 BCU/2Painter): 1050.39
BLA SNI: 1050.39

Sorted Likely 3%/T2 Fits
Rigor SNI: 1050.05
Rigor Phoon: 1062.96
Rigor CNR: 1134.92
Rigor TFI: 1169.66 (Armor 3 BCU fit)

I think at this point there should be enough raw data floating around that people can make informed decisions about what to fly. I'd personally recommend a Golem or maybe a shield tanked Typhoon.

-Liang

Ed: A bunch of edits to add data.

How about torpedoes? And not for the next expansion/update - for this one. No reason to look at cruise missiles but leave torps as they are.