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Wormholes

 
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WH PvP and Podding

Author
Britta Nolen
Sama Guild
#1 - 2013-05-19 08:20:12 UTC
Lets say, there's a new pos module that allows you to resurrect at a pos instead of K-Space... Would that improve the PVP opportunities in wormholes?

Personally, the number 1 reason I avoid fights is due to having to make it back into WH space; living in a C4 just exaggerates the problem.
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#2 - 2013-05-19 08:26:42 UTC
No you avoid fights because you are too risk averse to even post with your main.

.

Britta Nolen
Sama Guild
#3 - 2013-05-19 08:34:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Britta Nolen
Roime wrote:
No you avoid fights because you are too risk averse to even post with your main.


Which main, the wormhole one's, k-space or FW mains?

Edit: FYI, I run 10 accounts, only 2 in HS for ice mining.
trevormax
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#4 - 2013-05-19 09:26:26 UTC  |  Edited by: trevormax
If such a thing existed it would make wh PVP in someone's home system very difficult for the attacking force. The attackers have limited numbers due to mass restrictions and every attacker that gets podded will need to reship and fly several systems to get back in to the fight whereas the defenders can just keep throwing ship after ship at the attacker (until their ships run out) slowly wearing the attackers down. On the flip side, if the attackers can last it, it could result in a good fight as they get wave after wave of defenders throwing their ships at you Zapp Brannigan style.

If such a thing were to be implemented, there would need to be some kind of limit to the number of times you could do it in x amount of hours. Maybe one new clone/hour so you could die twice before taking the pod express back to empire.

As convenient as such a thing would be, I'm not sure it would be a good idea. One of the main tactics in wh pvp is to pod the enemy to take them out of the fight (unless they have an empire route)
Archdaimon
Merchants of the Golden Goose
#5 - 2013-05-19 10:07:30 UTC
A large part of WH pvp is the threat of pod-express. Never should it be allowed to "respawn" inside a WH.

Change clones? Yes please.
Respawn? No thanks.

Wormholes have the best accoustics. It's known. - Sing it for me -

Josilin du Guesclin
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2013-05-19 10:20:32 UTC
Being podded back to empire space needs to stay, IMO. As it stands, losing ships in w-space is mostly just an inconvenience (you have to fly home and get another) - very few wormholers will be flying ships they can't afford to replace, and aside from the blinged out pirate battleships and T3s losing a ship is a fairly small expense.

Being podded, OTOH, is a major setback - you're out of the current fight, most likely, and you're out the cost of both ship and implants (and due to the logistical pain involved in swapping clones often when in WH it's quite likely got a decent implant set), so it's a greater expense. If being podded just sent you home, only the expense remains, and it's not really enough of a drawback on its own.

I say this as someone who managed to get podded three times in the last two weeks, with ~120M in head candy each time (slow learner, I guess). The loss of ISK for new implants and ships was made back in a couple of evenings site running with my corp. Getting back into our WH was a right pain on one of those occasions and time consuming on two. Guess which was more of a penalty?
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2013-05-19 11:29:49 UTC
Britta Nolen wrote:
Roime wrote:
No you avoid fights because you are too risk averse to even post with your main.


Which main, the wormhole one's, k-space or FW mains?

Edit: FYI, I run 10 accounts, only 2 in HS for ice mining.


10 accounts or pilots? Because your C4 WH corp only has 8 members.

And podding should stay. I say this as someone who is usually on the losing end of a fight
Raptors Mole
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#8 - 2013-05-19 11:38:10 UTC
Josilin du Guesclin wrote:
Being podded back to empire space needs to stay, IMO. As it stands, losing ships in w-space is mostly just an inconvenience (you have to fly home and get another) - very few wormholers will be flying ships they can't afford to replace, and aside from the blinged out pirate battleships and T3s losing a ship is a fairly small expense.

Being podded, OTOH, is a major setback - you're out of the current fight, most likely, and you're out the cost of both ship and implants (and due to the logistical pain involved in swapping clones often when in WH it's quite likely got a decent implant set), so it's a greater expense. If being podded just sent you home, only the expense remains, and it's not really enough of a drawback on its own.

I say this as someone who managed to get podded three times in the last two weeks, with ~120M in head candy each time (slow learner, I guess). The loss of ISK for new implants and ships was made back in a couple of evenings site running with my corp. Getting back into our WH was a right pain on one of those occasions and time consuming on two. Guess which was more of a penalty?


Pikey
Britta Nolen
Sama Guild
#9 - 2013-05-19 11:42:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Britta Nolen
Derath Ellecon wrote:
Britta Nolen wrote:
Roime wrote:
No you avoid fights because you are too risk averse to even post with your main.


Which main, the wormhole one's, k-space or FW mains?

Edit: FYI, I run 10 accounts, only 2 in HS for ice mining.


10 accounts or pilots? Because your C4 WH corp only has 8 members.

And podding should stay. I say this as someone who is usually on the losing end of a fight


oh, it's 10 accounts. After dual training, I might consolidate a few of them; especially the ice miners.

Edit: Having to deal with player created difficulties getting back in is kinda fun. Having to roll statics and deal with 20 HS jumps, 5 LS and a foray into NS just to get into a C3/NS that is 3 chains down the line isn't fun at all. In fact, after a few times of that BS, Risk Adverseness via wasted time > even bothering to fight. I can just log into another account or 2 for fights where I have (1) Local intel/WT being called (2) The gates restrict ship classes (3) Not having to give a crap about pod express since I base close.
Rengerel en Distel
#10 - 2013-05-19 13:20:27 UTC
Having something like a clone array that allowed you to jump clone in/out would be handy. In a fight, after getting podded, you can use it the max of one time in 24 hours, so not as overpowered.

With the increase in shiptoasting, the Report timer needs to be shortened.

Jivlain Pollard
The Red Circle Inc.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#11 - 2013-05-19 22:01:23 UTC
Rengerel en Distel wrote:
Having something like a clone array that allowed you to jump clone in/out would be handy. In a fight, after getting podded, you can use it the max of one time in 24 hours, so not as overpowered.


And then someone can build up a massive alliance spread across multiple systems to maximise farming, keep a clone in each and then all jump into whatever system whenever they need a blob for PVP.
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#12 - 2013-05-19 22:26:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Jack Miton
No. Just no.
Stop trying to make WHs more like K space.
In fact, before making any WH change suggestions, ask 'will this make WHs more like kspace?'. If the answer to this is yes, then it is extremely unlikely WH dwellers will want it or that it will have a positive impact of WHs.

There is no Bob.

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CeNSeR
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#13 - 2013-05-19 23:14:00 UTC
Jack Miton wrote:
No. Just no.
Stop trying to make WHs more like K space.
In fact, before making any WH change suggestions, ask 'will this make WHs more like kspace?'. If the answer to this is yes, then it is extremely unlikely WH dwellers will want it or that it will have a positive impact of WHs.


What about the use of a rorqual clone vat?

So you can maybe not jump from system to system but simply swap out shield implants for armor inside the same wormhole system. To maybe take avantage of the effects in some wormhole systems.

Or would that be too much?
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2013-05-19 23:26:04 UTC
CeNSeR wrote:
Jack Miton wrote:
No. Just no.
Stop trying to make WHs more like K space.
In fact, before making any WH change suggestions, ask 'will this make WHs more like kspace?'. If the answer to this is yes, then it is extremely unlikely WH dwellers will want it or that it will have a positive impact of WHs.


What about the use of a rorqual clone vat?

So you can maybe not jump from system to system but simply swap out shield implants for armor inside the same wormhole system. To maybe take avantage of the effects in some wormhole systems.

Or would that be too much?



There is a flip side to that. What would be the potential Tear factor when someone see's that clone array at the POS and decides to burn it down, knowing they will be destroying potentially billions of juicy corp clones in the process (not like you would be able to easily evac your jump clones out.)
CeNSeR
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#15 - 2013-05-19 23:59:59 UTC
Derath Ellecon wrote:
CeNSeR wrote:
Jack Miton wrote:
No. Just no.
Stop trying to make WHs more like K space.
In fact, before making any WH change suggestions, ask 'will this make WHs more like kspace?'. If the answer to this is yes, then it is extremely unlikely WH dwellers will want it or that it will have a positive impact of WHs.


What about the use of a rorqual clone vat?

So you can maybe not jump from system to system but simply swap out shield implants for armor inside the same wormhole system. To maybe take avantage of the effects in some wormhole systems.

Or would that be too much?



There is a flip side to that. What would be the potential Tear factor when someone see's that clone array at the POS and decides to burn it down, knowing they will be destroying potentially billions of juicy corp clones in the process (not like you would be able to easily evac your jump clones out.)


log the rorqual in safe spot job done.

And to be honest the part about tears and the risk well...thats up to the corp/alliance and weighing up the pro's and con's.

Britta Nolen
Sama Guild
#16 - 2013-05-20 05:53:38 UTC
Jack Miton wrote:
No. Just no.
Stop trying to make WHs more like K space.
In fact, before making any WH change suggestions, ask 'will this make WHs more like kspace?'. If the answer to this is yes, then it is extremely unlikely WH dwellers will want it or that it will have a positive impact of WHs.


This suggestion isn't really trying to make it more like kspace. It's to make it even better than k-space.

I do agree that some serious balance issues would have to be worked out. A limit of one pod ressurrection/clone change per day should be good. The array could be made to require you to set up the clone at the pos to keep people from jumping in from elsewhere. Hard limit of one clone in any POS to keep the blob defending down. Defending a siege would be slightly easier as every1 who's podded can reship once but the chance of extra everything after a successful eviction will make it much sweeter. Big smile

Meytal
Doomheim
#17 - 2013-05-20 14:01:38 UTC
Derath Ellecon wrote:
There is a flip side to that. What would be the potential Tear factor when someone see's that clone array at the POS and decides to burn it down, knowing they will be destroying potentially billions of juicy corp clones in the process (not like you would be able to easily evac your jump clones out.)

Besides this, there is also the unexpected joys of podding one guy in a battle and seeing a full Crystal set, and then podding another guy in the same battle to see a full Slave set. You learn not to ask why, and instead just say "Thank You!"
Dr Agropoly
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#18 - 2013-05-20 21:55:44 UTC
Gtfo, and how the hell can one person get so many awful ideas?

Miyah Putredas
Perkone
Caldari State
#19 - 2013-05-20 23:08:33 UTC
I suppose this would also entail a medical service to update your clone to the appropriate level, otherwise this would be pretty useless, or even harmful.
Euthanasia Anneto
Embers Children
#20 - 2013-05-22 05:30:17 UTC
Instead, they should make 0sec more like W-space.. No more local!

I would like a Pod/Clone scanner only to be used W-space, that would be nice to ransom for a safe return.

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