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Raven, Can i passive tank it? if not why not?
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Lord Gisborne
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#1 - 2013-05-19 17:14:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Lord Gisborne
I can now do lv 4 missions so want to fly my new raven ive had for a while, so i made 2 fits on EFT and the passive seems to be better than the active tank and has more DPS, below is the build i made.

[Raven, Raven Passive]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Shield power relay 1
Shield power relay 1

Adaptive Invulnerability Field I
Adaptive Invulnerability Field I
Kinetic Deflection Field I
Large Shield Extender I
Large Shield Extender I
Large Shield Extender I

'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Mjolnir Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Mjolnir Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Mjolnir Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Mjolnir Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Mjolnir Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Mjolnir Cruise Missile
Small Tractor Beam I
Drone Link Augmentor I

Large Core Defense Field Purger I
Large Core Defense Field Purger I
Large Core Defense Field Purger I

This is 320 dps, 165 passive shield (guess this is on max shields?) and is cap stable.

The active fit only has 277 dps and it does have 345 shield regen with booster on but the cap only lasts under 2 minuets, so wouldent the passive be better as its every 1 sec in

British and proud... Amarr and proud... Long live Jamyl Sarum I
CanI haveyourstuff
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#2 - 2013-05-19 17:29:54 UTC
what the......
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#3 - 2013-05-19 17:36:20 UTC
Well, no. That fit won't survive L4s. It will get through some on buffer but the combination of low recharge and low damage will mean you'll warp out or pop on any moderately difficult mission.

One issue you've overlooked is your poor damage application. You'll get "all" 320 DPS on (most) battleships but killing cruisers and smaller is going to be painful. There's a reason everyone fits rigors, you know.

Try this:

[Raven, mjd entry]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Signal Amplifier II

X-Large C5-L Emergency Shield Overload I
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Kinetic Deflection Field II
Kinetic Deflection Field II
Large Micro Jump Drive

'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Cruise Missile
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]

Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I
Lord Gisborne
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#4 - 2013-05-19 17:42:46 UTC
How do i import this to eve EFT? i did it somehow when i minimized the EFT lol, how do i copy the code you gave me and load it into EFT for future?

British and proud... Amarr and proud... Long live Jamyl Sarum I
Lord Gisborne
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#5 - 2013-05-19 17:51:45 UTC
Zhilia Mann wrote:
Well, no. That fit won't survive L4s. It will get through some on buffer but the combination of low recharge and low damage will mean you'll warp out or pop on any moderately difficult mission.

One issue you've overlooked is your poor damage application. You'll get "all" 320 DPS on (most) battleships but killing cruisers and smaller is going to be painful. There's a reason everyone fits rigors, you know.

Try this:

[Raven, mjd entry]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Signal Amplifier II

X-Large C5-L Emergency Shield Overload I
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Kinetic Deflection Field II
Kinetic Deflection Field II
Large Micro Jump Drive

'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Cruise Missile
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]

Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I


This looks ok but how is it much better than the one i made in terns of defence? yours only has 30 ish more HPS regen than mine but mine has 18k shields for 30 less shields per sec?

British and proud... Amarr and proud... Long live Jamyl Sarum I
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2013-05-19 17:53:58 UTC
just...........please don't fly a raven yet.

You will just end up on the rat killboards.

Art of Explosions
Lord Gisborne
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#7 - 2013-05-19 17:56:25 UTC
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
just...........please don't fly a raven yet.

You will just end up on the rat killboards.


If i dont understand and learn i never will so dont be ignorant you ******* Minmatar lover, or ill stab you with vitoc!

British and proud... Amarr and proud... Long live Jamyl Sarum I
Max Von Sydow
24th Imperial Crusade
Amarr Empire
#8 - 2013-05-19 18:00:02 UTC
Lord Gisborne wrote:
How do i import this to eve EFT? i did it somehow when i minimized the EFT lol, how do i copy the code you gave me and load it into EFT for future?


Open EFT.

Copy text.

Go back to EFT.

Select "yes" in the do you want to import popup.
Lord Gisborne
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#9 - 2013-05-19 18:03:37 UTC
Max Von Sydow wrote:
Lord Gisborne wrote:
How do i import this to eve EFT? i did it somehow when i minimized the EFT lol, how do i copy the code you gave me and load it into EFT for future?


Open EFT.

Copy text.

Go back to EFT.

Select "yes" in the do you want to import popup.


go back to it? i minimize and reopen it and i get no pop up...

British and proud... Amarr and proud... Long live Jamyl Sarum I
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#10 - 2013-05-19 18:15:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Zhilia Mann
Lord Gisborne wrote:
Zhilia Mann wrote:
Well, no. That fit won't survive L4s. It will get through some on buffer but the combination of low recharge and low damage will mean you'll warp out or pop on any moderately difficult mission.

One issue you've overlooked is your poor damage application. You'll get "all" 320 DPS on (most) battleships but killing cruisers and smaller is going to be painful. There's a reason everyone fits rigors, you know.

Try this:

[Raven, mjd entry]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Signal Amplifier II

X-Large C5-L Emergency Shield Overload I
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Kinetic Deflection Field II
Kinetic Deflection Field II
Large Micro Jump Drive

'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Cruise Missile
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]

Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I


This looks ok but how is it much better than the one i made in terns of defence? yours only has 30 ish more HPS regen than mine but mine has 18k shields for 30 less shields per sec?


Are you loading rat specific defense profiles? I took your kinetic hardener as a cue and made a Guristas fit. Worst case scenario would be a Sansha/Blood fit, but still mine will do fine.

A big part of your tank on the MJD fit is... the MJD. You're not going to get hit much at range and what you do absorb you can shrug off. But on the fit you posted, you're stuck in place. Rats will all come to you and sit at their optimal range -- and kill you.

Edit: regarding the rat-specific damage, I can swap out your fit to have two kinetic and one thermal hardener, which gets you up to 297 EFT tank against Guristas. That's in contrast to the 511 sustained my fit gets against Guristas. That's a 72% increase in raw tank on top of the range tank. That's a huge difference in favor of an active tank.
Caleidascope
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#11 - 2013-05-19 18:15:35 UTC
Can you passive tank it? Yes.
Why you should not passive tank it? Because you will loose it, that is why.
How do I know? Because I tried it and lost mine.

Life is short and dinner time is chancy

Eat dessert first!
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2013-05-19 18:20:11 UTC
Lord Gisborne wrote:
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
just...........please don't fly a raven yet.

You will just end up on the rat killboards.


If i dont understand and learn i never will so dont be ignorant you ******* Minmatar lover, or ill stab you with vitoc!


It's not that you can't passive tank a raven

It's that YOU can't passive tank a raven with your current skillset.

300 DPS and 160 tank sounds like a cruiser O.O

Art of Explosions
Cable Udan
Balls Deep Inc.
#13 - 2013-05-19 18:21:01 UTC
Just because you can fly a Raven doesn't mean you should.
Lord Gisborne
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#14 - 2013-05-19 18:29:14 UTC
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
Lord Gisborne wrote:
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
just...........please don't fly a raven yet.

You will just end up on the rat killboards.


If i dont understand and learn i never will so dont be ignorant you ******* Minmatar lover, or ill stab you with vitoc!


It's not that you can't passive tank a raven

It's that YOU can't passive tank a raven with your current skillset.

300 DPS and 160 tank sounds like a cruiser O.O


but the one she linked me has only 30 more hp/s regen and thats active, passive when not at 25% is 160 to the 190, hows it much different?

British and proud... Amarr and proud... Long live Jamyl Sarum I
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#15 - 2013-05-19 18:31:03 UTC
Lord Gisborne wrote:
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
Lord Gisborne wrote:
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
just...........please don't fly a raven yet.

You will just end up on the rat killboards.


If i dont understand and learn i never will so dont be ignorant you ******* Minmatar lover, or ill stab you with vitoc!


It's not that you can't passive tank a raven

It's that YOU can't passive tank a raven with your current skillset.

300 DPS and 160 tank sounds like a cruiser O.O


but the one she linked me has only 30 more hp/s regen and thats active, passive when not at 25% is 160 to the 190, hows it much different?


See my edit above. It's very different.
Caleidascope
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#16 - 2013-05-19 18:35:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Caleidascope
Zhilia Mann wrote:
Lord Gisborne wrote:
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
Lord Gisborne wrote:
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
just...........please don't fly a raven yet.

You will just end up on the rat killboards.


If i dont understand and learn i never will so dont be ignorant you ******* Minmatar lover, or ill stab you with vitoc!


It's not that you can't passive tank a raven

It's that YOU can't passive tank a raven with your current skillset.

300 DPS and 160 tank sounds like a cruiser O.O


but the one she linked me has only 30 more hp/s regen and thats active, passive when not at 25% is 160 to the 190, hows it much different?


See my edit above. It's very different.

You have 93km targetting range. Here is what is going to happen. The rats will scram you, then they will pound you into scrap.

The LMJD fit let you jump 100km every 3 minutes, rat scram does not effect it. So you get in trouble, you just jump, small rats loose lock on you and if you fit targeting mods, you can keep on killing the rats while they are trying to close in on your new location. My LMJD fitted Navy Raven has 220km targeting range, my cruise missiles have 250km range. I can be sitting 200km away from rats and kill them with impunity. Only guristas give me trouble because of their missile cheating, but I work around that.

Life is short and dinner time is chancy

Eat dessert first!
Lord Gisborne
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#17 - 2013-05-19 18:35:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Lord Gisborne
Zhilia Mann wrote:
Lord Gisborne wrote:
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
Lord Gisborne wrote:
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
just...........please don't fly a raven yet.

You will just end up on the rat killboards.


If i dont understand and learn i never will so dont be ignorant you ******* Minmatar lover, or ill stab you with vitoc!


It's not that you can't passive tank a raven

It's that YOU can't passive tank a raven with your current skillset.

300 DPS and 160 tank sounds like a cruiser O.O


but the one she linked me has only 30 more hp/s regen and thats active, passive when not at 25% is 160 to the 190, hows it much different?


See my edit above. It's very different.


I dont know much about eve items, weps or fits, i did not understand most of what u said.

My passive drake build has half the shield regen my passive raven build does? how the hell does a drake passive tank? if a raven with double it cant?

British and proud... Amarr and proud... Long live Jamyl Sarum I
Caleidascope
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#18 - 2013-05-19 18:38:36 UTC
Lord Gisborne wrote:
Zhilia Mann wrote:
Lord Gisborne wrote:
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
Lord Gisborne wrote:


If i dont understand and learn i never will so dont be ignorant you ******* Minmatar lover, or ill stab you with vitoc!


It's not that you can't passive tank a raven

It's that YOU can't passive tank a raven with your current skillset.

300 DPS and 160 tank sounds like a cruiser O.O


but the one she linked me has only 30 more hp/s regen and thats active, passive when not at 25% is 160 to the 190, hows it much different?


See my edit above. It's very different.


I dont know much about eve items, weps or fits, i did not understand most of what u said.

Peeps, I think we are being trolled.

Life is short and dinner time is chancy

Eat dessert first!
Lord Gisborne
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#19 - 2013-05-19 18:41:05 UTC
Quote:
Peeps, I think we are being trolled.


Take you're chavy troll word and get out, people ask and try to understand a game and get called a troll, fu off you are the troll here, bb.

British and proud... Amarr and proud... Long live Jamyl Sarum I
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#20 - 2013-05-19 18:43:17 UTC
Lord Gisborne wrote:
I dont know much about eve items, weps or fits, i did not understand most of what u said.


Guristas deal primarily kinetic damage with a smattering of thermal. That's all. So that's all you protect against when you fight them.

When you do that with the passive fit, you get a 297 DPS peak tank. When you do that with the fit I posted, you get a 517 DPS tank.

On top of that, you can dictate range with my fit. Yours will sit still and get pounded into dust when all the ships in the room get into range.

You also won't be able to do much of anything at all to ships smaller than battleships simply because unaugmented cruise missiles are terrible at applying damage to small ships. I have three rigs to cover that plus a target painter which helps as well.

Oh, and as a nice afterthought my fit targets further and faster.
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