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More NPC's - Randomly Generated Modular Content
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Loki Feiht
Warcrows
THE OLD SCHOOL
#81 - 2013-05-02 16:22:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Loki Feiht
Daniel Plain wrote:
some of OPs ideas are good, others not so much. for example, I would strongly agree that disregarding capsuleers, EVE is extremely underpopulated. where are the trading vessels in low and null? it can't be THAT dangerous as to completely deter trade unless you are immortal...?

on the other hand, this is a very hot iron to forge. last year, the goons demonstrated very explicitly how changes to the sandbox can disrupt the EVE economy. if the newly introduced NPCs are supposed to be worth shooting at, you also want to ensure that they cannot be exploited (aside from the usual bug testing of course). i can already see 23/7 mock mining ops with an escort of tach oracles raking in billions in rat spawn bounties without having to move an inch.


All ideas would need fine tuning to be honest, but there's lots you can do with a concept.

More NPC - Randomly Generated Modular Content thread https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=220858
Xavier Thorm
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#82 - 2013-05-02 17:19:24 UTC
Loki Feiht wrote:
Daniel Plain wrote:
some of OPs ideas are good, others not so much. for example, I would strongly agree that disregarding capsuleers, EVE is extremely underpopulated. where are the trading vessels in low and null? it can't be THAT dangerous as to completely deter trade unless you are immortal...?

on the other hand, this is a very hot iron to forge. last year, the goons demonstrated very explicitly how changes to the sandbox can disrupt the EVE economy. if the newly introduced NPCs are supposed to be worth shooting at, you also want to ensure that they cannot be exploited (aside from the usual bug testing of course). i can already see 23/7 mock mining ops with an escort of tach oracles raking in billions in rat spawn bounties without having to move an inch.


All ideas would need fine tuning to be honest, but there's lots you can do with a concept.


One of the keys, in my opinion, when adding more NPC activity to EVE, would be to make them very new types of NPCs. NPC convoys shouldn't just be hauler spawns that move around, and in fact, most of them should probably not be worth attacking for a capsuleer, because of their low reward and hi security and standing hit with that empire. Killing them for fun should also carry repercussions, which would be more possible to implement if there were more Faction Navy and DED NPCs in the game, etc.
Sofia Wolf
Ubuntu Inc.
The Fourth District
#83 - 2013-05-02 17:32:27 UTC
+1

Jessica Danikov > EVE is your real life. the rest is fantasy. caught in a corporation. no escape from banality. open up yours eyes, peer through pod good and seeeeeee. I'm just a poor pilot, I need no sympathy. because I'm easy scam, easy go, little isk, little know. anyway the solar wind blows...
Andrea Griffin
#84 - 2013-05-03 14:14:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Andrea Griffin
Ankari Lytaken wrote:
I like this idea. Especially in lowsec. There's millions of rats floating about but never any concord or navy in sight, even though it is part of the empire.
And yet, the empires somehow lay claim to these systems (in non-FW systems, anyway). The only presence you see are the stations.

It would be interesting if criminal aggression in lowsec would provoke a single delayed (maybea minute or two) Navy response. Something along the lines of a typical battlecruiser. This would give PvE fit ships a "fighting chance" against a single other opponent if they can last long enough, but not so strong or instant as to inhibit solo piracy if you're quick about it.

I see it working something like this:

1. Chribba is minding his own business in lowsec, maybe farming those new clone security tags.
2. The Mittani, evil, vile villain that he is, spies Chribba in a belt and attacks.
3. Chribba invokes the power of the Holy Veldspar and works on surviving, turning his mining lasers onto The Mittani's hull.
4. After a minute or two, some Navy police ships appear and start to fire on The Mittani because he's been bad.
5. Either the combined damage (Chribba + NPCs) is enough to drive The Mittani away, or Chribba explodes and Mittens upholds his devious reputation.

The thing that worries me here is that the Navy wouldn't be a big deterrent for a prepared fleet of ships. They just pop it, or rotate tackle, while the target dies. Something like this could hurt the time honored tradition of Solo PvP, something I hold near and dear to my heart.

Maybe this idea should scale with the number of ships attacking the target. If a grid has 1 or 2 criminals, nothing happens; but if there's 3 or more people aggressing a target, a scaled response is eventually launched. After all, the empires only have so many resources. Are you going to spend them on one person or would you go for the bigger threat of five or six?

The response may also scale with the security status of the person being attacked. The Navy may be much more interested in helping a 5.0+ security status pilot - someone who obviously follows the laws of space and works toward the benefit of society. If you're in that -2 to 0 range, or lower, they might not respond at all.

Perhaps the Navy will only respond if the attackers are in that glorious -5 to -10 range that all true pirates should aspire to achieve. This makes security status important across lowsec (instead of just "flashy" and "non flashy" being the only important difference, since flashy can be aggressed on agate without consequence) and may increase the demand for the new Tags For Sec program.

I would like to propose that the Navy ships drop tags which could be turned in to pirate faction agents for standings. After all, not only are you a Bad Dude, but you're fighting off the police as well. That's impressive. Unfortunately it would be too easy to farm tags in this manner with an alt.

CCP Sreegs is my favorite developer.
NekoKitten
Neko Industry 'n' PvE
#85 - 2013-05-03 14:40:17 UTC
You cant survive / make money from doing pure pvp, you need pve for that and so I support the starting post.
Ruze
Next Stage Initiative
#86 - 2013-05-03 14:49:19 UTC
NekoKitten wrote:
You cant survive / make money from doing pure pvp, you need pve for that and so I support the starting post.


I support the op, I love the idea, but I'm sorry to say that you can survive from doing pure pvp. Your game becomes hampered pretty hard when you start worrying about sec status, but there are no requirements or need from day one to do anything but shoot other players. Especially when you consider market pvp.

On the other hand ... surviving off of pure pvp is NOT easy.

If you're driven to threaten others with harm or violence because of what they do in game, you can't separate fantasy from reality. That "griefer/thief" is probably more sane than you are. How screwed up is that?
Loki Feiht
Warcrows
THE OLD SCHOOL
#87 - 2013-05-05 00:37:10 UTC
bump :)

More NPC - Randomly Generated Modular Content thread https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=220858
Loki Feiht
Warcrows
THE OLD SCHOOL
#88 - 2013-05-06 09:08:00 UTC
Wormhole expeditions and missions that ask you to gather w-space resources?

More NPC - Randomly Generated Modular Content thread https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=220858
Xavier Thorm
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#89 - 2013-05-06 16:00:49 UTC
Loki Feiht wrote:
Wormhole expeditions and missions that ask you to gather w-space resources?


W-space resources are their own reward, and I don't know if it really makes sense with the lore for any company that doesn't have a dedicated division already harvesting w-space resources to look to pod pilots for them.
Loki Feiht
Warcrows
THE OLD SCHOOL
#90 - 2013-05-06 19:02:13 UTC
Yeah was just a thought as the npc corporations do buy those tags.

More NPC - Randomly Generated Modular Content thread https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=220858
Loki Feiht
Warcrows
THE OLD SCHOOL
#91 - 2013-05-08 18:15:00 UTC
BUMP!!

More NPC - Randomly Generated Modular Content thread https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=220858
Ines Tegator
Serious Business Inc. Ltd. LLC. etc.
#92 - 2013-05-08 19:13:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Ines Tegator
Andrea Griffin wrote:

The thing that worries me here is that the Navy wouldn't be a big deterrent for a prepared fleet of ships. They just pop it, or rotate tackle, while the target dies. Something like this could hurt the time honored tradition of Solo PvP, something I hold near and dear to my heart.

An NPC fleet could be a powerful deterrent by focusing on ewar instead of firepower- getting scrammed, webbed and sensor damped will put a lot more pain on a pirate fleet then getting shot at by faction police. The key term is deterrent- the goal should be to make it unpleasant, not merely punitive.

Regarding the second point, solo pvp would simply move to NPC nullsec, which could justifiably be expanded in this situation. As well, the intervention of these NPC's could be tied to standings instead of (or in addition to) agression, which allows a corp or pilot to invest in a certain territory, and be secure in that particular territory. See https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2921565#post2921565 . If done right, it would create a sandbox where investment and consequences of player actions play out in the long term. This is far more valuable gameplay, IMO, then a half dozen people roaming around the forest region looking for fights.

Overhaul Dscan!
Loki Feiht
Warcrows
THE OLD SCHOOL
#93 - 2013-05-11 07:18:31 UTC
Yes, a better world

More NPC - Randomly Generated Modular Content thread https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=220858
Loki Feiht
Warcrows
THE OLD SCHOOL
#94 - 2013-05-17 07:17:03 UTC
Bumping for hope

More NPC - Randomly Generated Modular Content thread https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=220858
Joseph North
Jolly Dodgers Rogering Codgers
Tactical Narcotics Team
#95 - 2013-05-17 14:53:52 UTC
+1

Good ideas. And I agree, I'd like to see a whole expansion based around this.

And more than this actually. EVE has needed a pve and universe immersion upgrade for a long time now. Probably half of all new players that come to eve think 'I want to be a space pirate. point me in that direction!'

Then... they learn that this isn't gonna happen anytime soon since the only place they'll be pirating is lowsec and they are far from skilled enough to do that, and the nearest lowsec is filled with blobs that will crush them. Imagine how nice it would be if there were NPC ships, cargo trains, or miners there that they could ambush, or even ransom while they started their careers.

Or, they do a few missions and think, this is fun -- I can't wait to see what's next! Then... they realize they've basically played every mission variant already. Nothing new is coming, and these missions and agents do not matter at all. I challenge anyone to name one agent that means anything to you or whose name you remember at all.

Off topic but every eve mission needs a revamp too, and I think doing so would fit well in the theme of an overall more immersive sandbox. Why does NO ship in any mission I enter perform nearly as well as mine? I know I'm an uber capsuleer, but are there really NO other ships even close to mine in capabilities? Does it really make sense, capsuleer or not, that every npc is so dumb as to keep attacking me till dead as all his friends get shot up? Why do they never warp off? And why do they never point me? And why are the same hulls so so so so much weaker. Just once I'd like to see an NPC flying not just the same hull as me -- but the same ship (or something comparatively strong).

Why do I sit in belts in a retriever and see rats show up and start fighting me? How dumb are these guys? They know that every ret has drones and apparently these drones can easily kill them. Why don't they warp out? Why don't they attack the drones? Obviously the game would not be much fun if the retriever didn't win the fight, but right now it's just silly that I can launch the drones and go eat a sandwich only to come back 5 mins later and find three dead guristas. How stupid are these guys? What I'd like to see instead are rats who warp in either in smaller numbers in much tougher ships that warp off before you kill them OR rats who warp in in greater numbers buy who warp off after you've killed a few.

Even better, and back to the theme of this thread, would be if the rats showed up in groups that would kill the average retriever. They scram you, and start attacking you. Uh oh. You hold your own for a bit as you slowly die when finally local security or concord shows up and chases them off. This scenario would be much more fun and would actually feel like these pirates had a plan that wasn't basically suicide. lower sec status means it takes longer for the cavalry to arrive.


Anyways, sorry I've gone on for a bit here. There are so many possibilities and contrary to what the few naysayers have said in this thread I think increasing the immersion would actually promote sandbox 'make your own immersion' situations.



Ines Tegator
Serious Business Inc. Ltd. LLC. etc.
#96 - 2013-05-17 22:43:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Ines Tegator
Gameplay considerations must always trump lore and common sense, at least up to a point. People like blowing things up, so things are provided for this purpose. It's a bit excessive IMO, but I think that's due to the slow power creep we've had over the years. A core PVE revamp is just about due.

Good call on the new players wanting to pirate- the main obstacle to this profession being that there is noone to raid. Lowsec is effectively empty, except for a few groups that like to smash each other for shiggles. I have in my mind a grand plan, that goes something like this:

1. Bring PVE and PVP closer together. This is needed for any other changes to work. (see sig).
2. Use NPC forces (faction police) to increase the safety of lowsec in a sliding way, so that system sec status has a large effect on how safe it is. Emphasis should be on deterrent (ewar, neuts, etc, that give the defenders an advantage if they choose to counterattack) rather then having the NPC's just pwn everything. That's what Highsec does, no need for it here.
3. Tie these NPC forces and general safety level to player activity, and use standings combined with sec status to determine NPC action. (Amarr police should naturally favor Amarr dedicated pilots- unless they are also a filthy dirty criminal. Working out how this threshold works would be one of the harder parts of implementation, but it's important to allow players to invest in certain areas of space) Don't limit it to faction police either, give individual NPC corps security forces so that individual systems or stations can be developed. An unpopulated .4 system should be unpopulated by NPC's as well- this gives incentive to invest in an area of space, and incentive to defend it. Kind of like Sov-Lite, but instead of conquering space, you ingratiate yourself with the locals.

This should create a whole new sandbox arena and entirely new forms of gameplay, all of it shaped by player action instead of a pass/fail CONCORD check. It will dynamically create activity hubs and activity holes, that will alternately attract or repel players of all professions- and give them all a place to go that suits their desires. The landscape will grow and change organically. The most common complaint about nullsec comes from those who don't live there, because there's no place there for small corps. This would create that place.

Overhaul Dscan!
Loki Feiht
Warcrows
THE OLD SCHOOL
#97 - 2013-06-15 16:00:02 UTC
Bumping, with the new anomaly system in place I really feel like more of this is definitely viable as fun, interesting and new NPC content.

More NPC - Randomly Generated Modular Content thread https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=220858
Loki Feiht
Warcrows
THE OLD SCHOOL
#98 - 2013-06-17 10:09:52 UTC
Hey, you all know you want more exploration content as well as more rewards, maybe even some random puzzles thrown into the mix like rpg's of old and we all know there are tonnes of you who would love more opportunities to fight somewhere else than stations and gates so give this thread a bump and post some ideas!

Big smile

More NPC - Randomly Generated Modular Content thread https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=220858
Loki Feiht
Warcrows
THE OLD SCHOOL
#99 - 2013-06-25 19:54:00 UTC
BUMPING!! Big smileBig smileBig smile

More NPC - Randomly Generated Modular Content thread https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=220858
Tiberius Steiner
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#100 - 2013-06-26 23:27:00 UTC
+1
I really like the idea. I am a child of Microsofts Freelancer and I liked the immersion of being a part of a much greater thing. I dont believe in the idea, that only players can be the foundation of lore, you need a foundation to start your story. NPC interactions can bring the foundation to a great story! Because it is a sandbox, escorting an NPC freighter and then being attacked by players could be real fun for instance. Loki Feith's idea is not only a nonsence-content, it adds an other way of playing the game and having fun. PvP will not be excluded, it will add another connection between PvE- and PvP-Players.