EVE General Discussion

…nor does it make sense to (or for) the remaining players, but perhaps for different reasons.

The point is, what you just said: “If you don't want to play the bigger game then don't play it” — it's an option that is being mechanically denied people for no useful, rational, sensible, or adequately explained reason.

I'd feel pretty terrible if pvp losses were entirely meaningless. In fact, I'd probably stop playing.

But in the context of this discussion, we have to remember that the player-driver market that CCP has created for this game ensures that pvp will never be meaningless, unless you only ever do it in rookie ships. In fact, CCP has been moving to make the market more player-driven over time, not less. That's why stuff like shuttles and POS mods is all player-made now. Meanwhile, clones aren't. All they do is create a barrier to entry for older players to use smaller, less-survivable ships. Which, by the way, works exactly against the "equalizing versus noobies" argument Corey is trying to make. If you're going to have a newb vs. vet situation, wouldn't you rather have the vet in something smaller and less survivable? High clone costs prevent this from happening.

Meaningless pvp can't exist in this game because of the market. All that clones do is take money that could circulate between players and strengthen the economy, and donate it to an NPC entity. The ISK sink argument is irrelevant here as well. If you (ignorantly) want there to be less ISK in the game without providing reasons of why that would be a good thing, then maybe you should advocate cutting rat bounties by 5% instead.


Uh, what? You really don't see how that's possibly the worst outcome for EVE Online? Meaningful pvp is one thing, but using that line of logic, why not just advocate permanent character death upon podding instead? That would certainly prevent people from undocking to fight, as you so desperately desire.

Undocking is not an optimal outcome for a small game like Faction Warfare or the various Eve tournaments. But in the greater game it means that you have broken your opponent, which is one of the finest victories in Eve.

*Fear not, they usually recover.

Sure they can, just start flying in an alpha grade clone, they will save billions. This is a very harsh solution, but as was pointed out earlier it takes a loooong time to get good at everything. Those characters had plenty of time to see it coming. And like digging out of a bad faction hole it takes effort and work and sacrifice.

How do you recover if you can't undock anymore? Start with a Velator and work your way up like you did in '04?

How can that possibly be good game design for pvp?

On that note, how is it perfect for a sandbox that simply playing the game — not player choice — cuts you off from gameplay?

If by “they” you mean CCP, then yes. That's why they've decided to try to figure out how to make it work properly.

I always wondered if you really liked Eve. Or if you just stayed because of PLEX or whatever.

Ok, just wondered.


Well I know one thing, nobody will alter your view no matter what's said.



Still you are a character.