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[Odyssey] Navy Battleships

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Gypsio III
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#961 - 2013-05-17 16:49:29 UTC
Mooddy wrote:
Quote:
Raven:
Caldari Battleship Skill Bonuses:
+5% bonus to Torpedo and Cruise Missile explosion radius


I don't understand how this can be a bonus, (srry, noob) doesn't it make it even harder to hit smaller targets?


As it's written, yes, it would make it harder to hit small/fast targets. It should say "minus 5%" instead. Lol
stoicfaux
#962 - 2013-05-17 17:23:45 UTC
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=230551&find=unread

PDF Reports comparing the Odyssey cruise missile/ship changes are available in the above link:
* cnr_flare_v_rigor_odyssey.pdf
* cnr_rigs_odyssey.pdf
* cnr_v_fleet_typhoon_odyssey.pdf
* cnr_v_typhoon_v_raven_v_fleet_typhoon_v_sni_v_golem_odyssey.pdf
* cruise_cnr_v_torp_golem.pdf
* raven_v_cnr_odyssey.pdf
* tengu_ham_v_hml.pdf

It should help answer the CNR is just a Golem-Lite question. Or whether the CNR's "applied damage" bonus sets it apart from the "everything now has 8 effective launchers" ship changes.

You can also mess around with the easy to read spreadsheet.[1]


[1] I think Perl is easy to read. That's your only warning.

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#963 - 2013-05-17 17:49:11 UTC
stoicfaux wrote:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=230551&find=unread

PDF Reports comparing the Odyssey cruise missile/ship changes are available in the above link:
* cnr_flare_v_rigor_odyssey.pdf
* cnr_rigs_odyssey.pdf
* cnr_v_fleet_typhoon_odyssey.pdf
* cnr_v_typhoon_v_raven_v_fleet_typhoon_v_sni_v_golem_odyssey.pdf
* cruise_cnr_v_torp_golem.pdf
* raven_v_cnr_odyssey.pdf
* tengu_ham_v_hml.pdf

It should help answer the CNR is just a Golem-Lite question. Or whether the CNR's "applied damage" bonus sets it apart from the "everything now has 8 effective launchers" ship changes.

You can also mess around with the easy to read spreadsheet.[1]


[1] I think Perl is easy to read. That's your only warning.


That's nice work, but (as EVERY EFT warrior has ever learned, or should have) raw numbers just can't tell the whole tale.

Like how the Golem (using the Golem as it's the main point of contention with the CNR) will get jammed if their is a single Gurista Frig withing 5 jumps of you (lol). The CNRs FoF missiles will be way more helpful than the Goelms will be in a jammed to death situation, and that could litteralyl mean life or death.

Or how the Golem will lose so much more dps to defender missiles, (another thing that affects the FoF "rescue" missile use)

Or how a Golem neuted to zero cap loses a bit more of it's ability to apply damage than a similarly neuted CNR would because the CNR has a better bonus.

Or how that CNR with a sig radius of 410 is WAY more survivable against the Citidel Torpedos you find in top end null sec PVE plexes compared to the Golems 575 sig radius. etc etc etc

I haven't had a chance to, but a buddy of mine who loves CNRs like I do reports absolutely loving the ship on SiSi.
Johnson Oramara
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#964 - 2013-05-17 17:50:29 UTC
stoicfaux wrote:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=230551&find=unread

PDF Reports comparing the Odyssey cruise missile/ship changes are available in the above link:
* cnr_flare_v_rigor_odyssey.pdf
* cnr_rigs_odyssey.pdf
* cnr_v_fleet_typhoon_odyssey.pdf
* cnr_v_typhoon_v_raven_v_fleet_typhoon_v_sni_v_golem_odyssey.pdf
* cruise_cnr_v_torp_golem.pdf
* raven_v_cnr_odyssey.pdf
* tengu_ham_v_hml.pdf

It should help answer the CNR is just a Golem-Lite question. Or whether the CNR's "applied damage" bonus sets it apart from the "everything now has 8 effective launchers" ship changes.

You can also mess around with the easy to read spreadsheet.[1]


[1] I think Perl is easy to read. That's your only warning.

So when you factor in drones killing frigs and most cruisers the CNR bonus drops to almost nonexistent?
stoicfaux
#965 - 2013-05-17 18:03:54 UTC
Johnson Oramara wrote:
stoicfaux wrote:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=230551&find=unread

PDF Reports comparing the Odyssey cruise missile/ship changes are available in the above link:
* cnr_flare_v_rigor_odyssey.pdf
* cnr_rigs_odyssey.pdf
* cnr_v_fleet_typhoon_odyssey.pdf
* cnr_v_typhoon_v_raven_v_fleet_typhoon_v_sni_v_golem_odyssey.pdf
* cruise_cnr_v_torp_golem.pdf
* raven_v_cnr_odyssey.pdf
* tengu_ham_v_hml.pdf

It should help answer the CNR is just a Golem-Lite question. Or whether the CNR's "applied damage" bonus sets it apart from the "everything now has 8 effective launchers" ship changes.

You can also mess around with the easy to read spreadsheet.[1]


[1] I think Perl is easy to read. That's your only warning.

So when you factor in drones killing frigs and most cruisers the CNR bonus drops to almost nonexistent?

First, use missiles on cruisers. Drones are slow.

And as Jenn aSide pointed out, it's become less about raw missile DPS and more about different aspects of the ship hulls. Having 9.33 launchers is no longer an "I-win" button for the CNR. Pick the hull that suits your particular needs.

Unfortunately this means it is likely that CCP managed to successfully balance missile battleships (without dumbing them down) which will most likely result in reduced tears and ranting on the forums. I, for one, do NOT welcome our quieter, less whinging forum overlords drama queens.


Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Johnson Oramara
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#966 - 2013-05-17 18:10:32 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
stoicfaux wrote:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=230551&find=unread

PDF Reports comparing the Odyssey cruise missile/ship changes are available in the above link:
* cnr_flare_v_rigor_odyssey.pdf
* cnr_rigs_odyssey.pdf
* cnr_v_fleet_typhoon_odyssey.pdf
* cnr_v_typhoon_v_raven_v_fleet_typhoon_v_sni_v_golem_odyssey.pdf
* cruise_cnr_v_torp_golem.pdf
* raven_v_cnr_odyssey.pdf
* tengu_ham_v_hml.pdf

It should help answer the CNR is just a Golem-Lite question. Or whether the CNR's "applied damage" bonus sets it apart from the "everything now has 8 effective launchers" ship changes.

You can also mess around with the easy to read spreadsheet.[1]


[1] I think Perl is easy to read. That's your only warning.


That's nice work, but (as EVERY EFT warrior has ever learned, or should have) raw numbers just can't tell the whole tale.

Like how the Golem (using the Golem as it's the main point of contention with the CNR) will get jammed if their is a single Gurista Frig withing 5 jumps of you (lol). The CNRs FoF missiles will be way more helpful than the Goelms will be in a jammed to death situation, and that could litteralyl mean life or death.

Or how the Golem will lose so much more dps to defender missiles, (another thing that affects the FoF "rescue" missile use)

Or how a Golem neuted to zero cap loses a bit more of it's ability to apply damage than a similarly neuted CNR would because the CNR has a better bonus.

Or how that CNR with a sig radius of 410 is WAY more survivable against the Citidel Torpedos you find in top end null sec PVE plexes compared to the Golems 575 sig radius. etc etc etc

I haven't had a chance to, but a buddy of mine who loves CNRs like I do reports absolutely loving the ship on SiSi.

First, you are looking at the ship from your own perspective, not even giving it a thought how it would perform in other tasks.

Secondly, fit eccm on your Golem as it has tanking bonus which is more than enough to cover the loss of one med slot. I do not see how your problem is only turning on the TP when having no cap to run shield hardeners and boosters either...

Again, if those citadel torps really hurt which they shouldn't do if you are moving but even if you were webbed Golem still has superior tank.
Johnson Oramara
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#967 - 2013-05-17 18:26:32 UTC
stoicfaux wrote:
Johnson Oramara wrote:
stoicfaux wrote:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=230551&find=unread

PDF Reports comparing the Odyssey cruise missile/ship changes are available in the above link:
* cnr_flare_v_rigor_odyssey.pdf
* cnr_rigs_odyssey.pdf
* cnr_v_fleet_typhoon_odyssey.pdf
* cnr_v_typhoon_v_raven_v_fleet_typhoon_v_sni_v_golem_odyssey.pdf
* cruise_cnr_v_torp_golem.pdf
* raven_v_cnr_odyssey.pdf
* tengu_ham_v_hml.pdf

It should help answer the CNR is just a Golem-Lite question. Or whether the CNR's "applied damage" bonus sets it apart from the "everything now has 8 effective launchers" ship changes.

You can also mess around with the easy to read spreadsheet.[1]


[1] I think Perl is easy to read. That's your only warning.

So when you factor in drones killing frigs and most cruisers the CNR bonus drops to almost nonexistent?

First, use missiles on cruisers. Drones are slow.

And as Jenn aSide pointed out, it's become less about raw missile DPS and more about different aspects of the ship hulls. Having 9.33 launchers is no longer an "I-win" button for the CNR. Pick the hull that suits your particular needs.

Unfortunately this means it is likely that CCP managed to successfully balance missile battleships (without dumbing them down) which will most likely result in reduced tears and ranting on the forums. I, for one, do NOT welcome our quieter, less whinging forum overlords drama queens.



I have perfect drone and missile skills and by the time i finish killing the last battleship my drones have already finished the rest or there are like 1-2 cruisers left which are quickly dealt with.

It's odd when you are talking about "not dumbing down" when in your own spreadsheet Raven performs very closely to the CNR while the current CNR is very distinguishable from the rest.
Gabriel Karade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#968 - 2013-05-17 18:31:01 UTC
Jonas Sukarala wrote:
Jerick Ludhowe wrote:
Jonas Sukarala wrote:


well theres no reason to nerf the dronebay all the way maybe the same bay as the Hype has.
Oh and there is no point in flying the navy mega anyway with the navy domi about and for a little more isk a vindi or kronos.
The navy mega is just too similar to too many ships it needs a USP.


I'd be all for the navy geddon losing it's +200 and getting the 175 m3 it use to have. As for there being no point in the mega because of the domi? That one I simply do not get, domi has very minimal turret dps, mega on the other hand has the highest turret dps of the bunch So I don't really see how the two are comparable outside of overly simplified eft dps values.

About the kronos or vindi costing a "little" more isk than a navy mega... That just flat out wrong. Navy mega is around 450m, kronos and vindi are well over 1b. I'd call that quite a bit more.

Overall What I'd like to see for the navy mega is a swap in "role" with the navy domi. The nmega should be the combat one imo and the navy domi the attack. The domi has a better slot layout for a "fast" bs anyway, the navy mega is just going to stack 2-3 plates +3x trimarks and lose any mobility advantage it had over the others.


Navy domi has 6 bonused turrets plenty of turret dps there it can out dps a navy mega when drones are combined.

Well the price of Navy mega will increase somewhat and the other two will get buffs when there rebalance comes along.
Navy mega is at around 515mil and on the rise .. Kronos is around 800mil and the price of the 2 will come closer.

The answer to fix the navy mega is too make it shield tanked too some extent so it will have a USP over the others.
no.

War Machine: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=386293
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#969 - 2013-05-17 18:35:06 UTC
Johnson Oramara wrote:

First, you are looking at the ship from your own perspective, not even giving it a thought how it would perform in other tasks.



Nope, I'm thinking about the issue properly, as in it's worse case (in the case of EVE PVE, that means null sec , low sec lvl 5s and wormholes). How a ship performs in utterly safe high sec PVE is irreverent for balancing purposes. The CNR has a lot of advantages in worse case scenarios that other ships won't. "DPS"or a utility slot aren't even the most important aspects in a ships performance (as many an EFt warrior has learned).

Quote:

Secondly, fit eccm on your Golem as it has tanking bonus which is more than enough to cover the loss of one med slot. I do not see how your problem is only turning on the TP when having no cap to run shield hardeners and boosters either...


Having to fit ECCM is one way in which the Golem is inferior in a specific circumstance than the New CNR. it's not the only one and taken together it all means the New CNR is fine as proposed.
Quote:

Again, if those citadel torps really hurt which they shouldn't do if you are moving but even if you were webbed Golem still has superior tank.


Citidel torps should hurt if you're moving......You've never been in a DED 10/10 of 9/10, have you? How good is that superior tank when webbed to zero cap by the neut spawn in a fleet staging point?
Andre Vauban
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#970 - 2013-05-17 18:35:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Andre Vauban
CCP Rise wrote:
Hey guys

Posting to let you know that we are going to make two small adjustments to the Armageddon Navy Issue.
  • First, we're going to lower the drone bay to 200m3. We gave it the giant bay as a way to connect it to the new tech 1 Geddon, but as you've pointed out, it just seems weird.
  • Second, we're going to lower the signature radius of the Armageddon to 400. The original increase was because of trying pull a lot of the core metrics closer together for the ships within a role (like I did with sensor strength or lock range etc) but in this case it was a totally unnecessary nerf to performance when nothing else on the ship was changing substantially.

    • The OP will be updated to reflect these changes.


    Can we get a response to why the Dominix gets one less slot than all the other ships? At least now it has a bigger drone bay compared to all the other Navy BS, but there are still a ton of other Navy BS that get 125 bandwidth and > 125 m3 of drones which makes them unbonused drone boats as well. Giving another turret hard point would definitely be over powered. We could debate about what another low/mid would do to it. However, another utility high seems very reasonable to me and brings it inline slot wise with the other ships.

    EDIT: I get the point that drones give more effective turrets. However, the domi has 6 base turrets and has an effective 7.5 turrets + ~3 effective turrets from drone damage bonus for 10.5 effective turrets. The 8 turret BS have an effective 10 turrets of damage. All the 125 bandwidth drone boats have the same drone dps as we shifted the domi's drone bonus damage to account for it in terms of turret dps. The domi is slightly better in terms of damage, but is that 1/2 turret of extra damage really worth losing the extra slot for tank or tackle? Obviously another turret hardpoint would be grossly overpowered. Even if you do fall on the OP side of giving the domi another low/mid slot, at least give it another utility high .

    .
    Jenn aSide
    Soul Machines
    The Initiative.
    #971 - 2013-05-17 18:37:25 UTC
    stoicfaux wrote:
    Johnson Oramara wrote:
    stoicfaux wrote:
    https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=230551&find=unread

    PDF Reports comparing the Odyssey cruise missile/ship changes are available in the above link:
    * cnr_flare_v_rigor_odyssey.pdf
    * cnr_rigs_odyssey.pdf
    * cnr_v_fleet_typhoon_odyssey.pdf
    * cnr_v_typhoon_v_raven_v_fleet_typhoon_v_sni_v_golem_odyssey.pdf
    * cruise_cnr_v_torp_golem.pdf
    * raven_v_cnr_odyssey.pdf
    * tengu_ham_v_hml.pdf

    It should help answer the CNR is just a Golem-Lite question. Or whether the CNR's "applied damage" bonus sets it apart from the "everything now has 8 effective launchers" ship changes.

    You can also mess around with the easy to read spreadsheet.[1]


    [1] I think Perl is easy to read. That's your only warning.

    So when you factor in drones killing frigs and most cruisers the CNR bonus drops to almost nonexistent?

    First, use missiles on cruisers. Drones are slow.

    And as Jenn aSide pointed out, it's become less about raw missile DPS and more about different aspects of the ship hulls. Having 9.33 launchers is no longer an "I-win" button for the CNR. Pick the hull that suits your particular needs.

    Unfortunately this means it is likely that CCP managed to successfully balance missile battleships (without dumbing them down) which will most likely result in reduced tears and ranting on the forums. I, for one, do NOT welcome our quieter, less whinging forum overlords drama queens.





    Not to worry, even after odyssey there will still be whining about the CNR because on paper it doesn't look much different from some other ship. I'm simply betting that (like the couple of people I now know have flown it on SiSi), most CNR pilots will recognize it as a superior ship than they had before June 4.
    Josilin du Guesclin
    Aliastra
    Gallente Federation
    #972 - 2013-05-17 18:37:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Josilin du Guesclin
    Altimo wrote:

    I'm not confusing anything, you seem to be dillusional about the pest, so I'll repeat it again, the typhoon fleet issue IS faster then the tempest fleet issue and and is more agile, and is all around a better brawler, Missiles, AC's, Can either be a good shield or armor buffer, and I had no issues in fitting it.

    Ah, finally - you did not previously say "Typhoon Fleet Issue". Yes, the 'Phoon FI is faster - I noted that.
    Quote:

    I had assumed that when I mentioned the typhoon fleet issue I was comparing the ships, then I brought the sleipnir up because it is a fantastic ship, is it over powered? Not really, the tempest is just underpowered, both the fleet issue, and the regular tempest. You keep on ranting about fittings but I have no idea what skills you have, but I lol fitted a Typhoon fleet issue like this.

    with my skills on sisi here goes.

    Hi 6x800 repeating AC 2, 2x CM 2

    Med- 2x Large Shield Extender 2, 2x Invul field II 1x Republic fleet 100mn afterburner.

    Low- 3x gyros 1x TE2 1x DCU2 2x BCU 2

    Rigs- 1xem 1xtherm 1x Large Projectile Ambit Extension I (Increases fall off)

    Drones - 5 berserker t2 and 5 vespa ecm drones

    Stats, 89k buffer, 1323 dps, 465 MS with afterburner on. I had no problems hitting frigates at 30km and applying my damage with just projectiles. This is just a lol wtf tank damage fit, I'm not even trying and I can get these kinds of results. How the **** is a tempest supposed to be better than this? Tell me I'm curious, the options you can do with the typhoon are lightyears ahead of the tempest. Show me how exactly the tempest can be fit to beat a typhoon in a brawl.


    Well, you can dump the same fit onto a Tempest FI because they have the same slot layout (which I think is a mistake, BTW), though you need a CPU implant (For what it's worth, I assume 'all Skill V' - it's a simple baseline and has been in common use for years). The results are probably worse, as you'd expect - the 'Phoon FI is intended for split weapon fits and the 'Pest FI is not (but the 'Pest FI does have more tank by the same percentage that it's slower). However, even with this shield tanked fit, the 'Pest FI can do things that the 'Phoon FI can't, such as mount two heavy neuts in place of thise missile launchers.

    However, the 'Pest FI's tank seems to be intended more for armour than shield. From this and the lack of eight bonused high slots we can assume that it is not intended to do equal DPS to a 'Phoon FI. If we take your fit, rip out the missiles and shield tank and put in an armour tank of the same number of slots, add some neuts, and fill the mids we get something like:

    [Tempest Fleet Issue, AC+Neuts]

    Gyrostabilizer II
    Gyrostabilizer II
    1600mm Reinforced Steel Plates II
    1600mm Reinforced Steel Plates II
    Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
    Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
    Damage Control II

    Republic Fleet 100MN Afterburner
    Warp Disruptor II
    Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
    Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
    Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script

    800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Titanium Sabot L
    800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Titanium Sabot L
    800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Titanium Sabot L
    800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Titanium Sabot L
    800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Titanium Sabot L
    800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Titanium Sabot L
    Heavy Diminishing Power System Drain I
    Heavy Diminishing Power System Drain I

    Large Anti-Explosive Pump I
    Large Trimark Armor Pump I
    Large Projectile Burst Aerator I


    Berserker II x2
    Hobgoblin II x1
    Hammerhead II x2

    This has superior DPS on webbed frigates, comparable DPS on cruisers, and (unsurprisingly) worse DPS on battleships. However, it has those neuts, it has tackle and painter (both of which enhance the DPS of other ships in the fleet), and it has 141K EHP, whereas your 'Phoon FI has 110K (assuming 'all Skill V' for both).

    I don't think that the 'Pest FI is clearly inferior to the 'Phoon FI. It's different, as intended.

    EDIT: Don't mind the ammo - I was playing with different types to see how they affected the tracking.
    stoicfaux
    #973 - 2013-05-17 18:40:40 UTC
    Johnson Oramara wrote:
    I have perfect drone and missile skills and by the time i finish killing the last battleship my drones have already finished the rest or there are like 1-2 cruisers left which are quickly dealt with.

    It's odd when you are talking about "not dumbing down" when in your own spreadsheet Raven performs very closely to the CNR while the current CNR is very distinguishable from the rest.

    Which one do you pick?

    Fleet Typhoon: 8.25 (6) launchers and 125 / 200 drone bandwith/bay. If you can manage to shield tank this (CPU is tight,) you're looking at 8.25 launches + 3 BCUs, and 5 sentry drones + 3 DDAs.

    SNI: 8 (6) launchers, 20% shield resists, 8 mids. You should be able to slap 4 TPs on this which makes TP juggling easy.

    Raven: 8 (6) launchers. Cheaper CNR with CNR firepower. Is the extra price of the CNR worth the free Rigor II rig? Maybe, maybe not.

    CNR: 8 (8) launchers. Free ~Rigor II rig. 75/75 drone bandwidth/bay.

    Typhoon: 6 (8) Free Flare II rig. 100/125 drone bandwith/bay, i.e. 8 launchers plus 4 sentries.

    Personally, I'm a bit interested in the hyper DPS Fleet Typhoon with minimal shield tank, although the lack of omnis may be problematic.

    Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
    Morrigan LeSante
    Perkone
    Caldari State
    #974 - 2013-05-17 18:41:05 UTC
    CCP Rise wrote:
    Hey guys

    Posting to let you know that we are going to make two small adjustments to the Armageddon Navy Issue.
  • First, we're going to lower the drone bay to 200m3. We gave it the giant bay as a way to connect it to the new tech 1 Geddon, but as you've pointed out, it just seems weird.
  • Second, we're going to lower the signature radius of the Armageddon to 400. The original increase was because of trying pull a lot of the core metrics closer together for the ships within a role (like I did with sensor strength or lock range etc) but in this case it was a totally unnecessary nerf to performance when nothing else on the ship was changing substantially.

    • The OP will be updated to reflect these changes.



    Raven CPU....please, it's /ridiculous/ at the moment.
    Sisohiv
    Center for Advanced Studies
    Gallente Federation
    #975 - 2013-05-17 18:41:05 UTC
    I bought two Navy Scorpions. I can see them being the new, old Drake. A full passive Navy Scorp is going to be a tough nut to crack.
    Dr Topolex
    School of Applied Knowledge
    Caldari State
    #976 - 2013-05-17 18:56:46 UTC
    IrJosy wrote:
    I don't use my navy domi with guns can you please change it to be like the regular domi with the drone optimal/tracking bonus?


    Same here. Please change it like you did the regular Domi.
    Altimo
    Kitchen Sink Kapitals
    #977 - 2013-05-17 18:57:26 UTC
    Josilin du Guesclin wrote:


    [Tempest Fleet Issue, AC+Neuts]

    Gyrostabilizer II
    Gyrostabilizer II
    1600mm Reinforced Steel Plates II
    1600mm Reinforced Steel Plates II
    Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
    Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
    Damage Control II

    Republic Fleet 100MN Afterburner
    Warp Disruptor II
    Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
    Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
    Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script

    800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Titanium Sabot L
    800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Titanium Sabot L
    800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Titanium Sabot L
    800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Titanium Sabot L
    800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Titanium Sabot L
    800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Titanium Sabot L
    Heavy Diminishing Power System Drain I
    Heavy Diminishing Power System Drain I

    Large Anti-Explosive Pump I
    Large Trimark Armor Pump I
    Large Projectile Burst Aerator I


    Berserker II x2
    Hobgoblin II x1
    Hammerhead II x2

    This has superior DPS on webbed frigates, comparable DPS on cruisers, and (unsurprisingly) worse DPS on battleships. However, it has those neuts, it has tackle and painter (both of which enhance the DPS of other ships in the fleet), and it has 141K EHP, whereas your 'Phoon FI has 110K (assuming 'all Skill V' for both).

    I don't think that the 'Pest FI is clearly inferior to the 'Phoon FI. It's different, as intended.

    EDIT: Don't mind the ammo - I was playing with different types to see how they affected the tracking.



    Well basically your saying it has superior dps on smaller ships, however, if I wanted that I could just use a battlecruiser, The Typhoon can get the same kind of tank if not more so, with the option of drones no matter what to aid it, I would still say the typhoon is superior, it also has the element of surprise going for it as well, because you can set up the typhoon to do all kinds of things, where as the tempest is already limited in its role, which is not very good, not the fleet issue, a higher damage buff is needed, 7.5% ROF to reinforce it's position and I might just be fine with that.
    Johnson Oramara
    Science and Trade Institute
    Caldari State
    #978 - 2013-05-17 18:57:42 UTC
    stoicfaux wrote:
    Johnson Oramara wrote:
    I have perfect drone and missile skills and by the time i finish killing the last battleship my drones have already finished the rest or there are like 1-2 cruisers left which are quickly dealt with.

    It's odd when you are talking about "not dumbing down" when in your own spreadsheet Raven performs very closely to the CNR while the current CNR is very distinguishable from the rest.

    Which one do you pick?

    Fleet Typhoon: 8.25 (6) launchers and 125 / 200 drone bandwith/bay. If you can manage to shield tank this (CPU is tight,) you're looking at 8.25 launches + 3 BCUs, and 5 sentry drones + 3 DDAs.

    SNI: 8 (6) launchers, 20% shield resists, 8 mids. You should be able to slap 4 TPs on this which makes TP juggling easy.

    Raven: 8 (6) launchers. Cheaper CNR with CNR firepower. Is the extra price of the CNR worth the free Rigor II rig? Maybe, maybe not.

    CNR: 8 (8) launchers. Free ~Rigor II rig. 75/75 drone bandwidth/bay.

    Typhoon: 6 (8) Free Flare II rig. 100/125 drone bandwith/bay, i.e. 8 launchers plus 4 sentries.

    Personally, I'm a bit interested in the hyper DPS Fleet Typhoon with minimal shield tank, although the lack of omnis may be problematic.

    Yes TFI seems like the winner here but i find it odd how poorly the CNR performs compared to Raven Sad
    Liang Nuren
    No Salvation
    Divine Damnation
    #979 - 2013-05-17 18:58:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Liang Nuren
    stoicfaux wrote:
    Johnson Oramara wrote:
    I have perfect drone and missile skills and by the time i finish killing the last battleship my drones have already finished the rest or there are like 1-2 cruisers left which are quickly dealt with.

    It's odd when you are talking about "not dumbing down" when in your own spreadsheet Raven performs very closely to the CNR while the current CNR is very distinguishable from the rest.

    Which one do you pick?

    Fleet Typhoon: 8.25 (6) launchers and 125 / 200 drone bandwith/bay. If you can manage to shield tank this (CPU is tight,) you're looking at 8.25 launches + 3 BCUs, and 5 sentry drones + 3 DDAs.

    SNI: 8 (6) launchers, 20% shield resists, 8 mids. You should be able to slap 4 TPs on this which makes TP juggling easy.

    Raven: 8 (6) launchers. Cheaper CNR with CNR firepower. Is the extra price of the CNR worth the free Rigor II rig? Maybe, maybe not.

    CNR: 8 (8) launchers. Free ~Rigor II rig. 75/75 drone bandwidth/bay.

    Typhoon: 6 (8) Free Flare II rig. 100/125 drone bandwith/bay, i.e. 8 launchers plus 4 sentries.

    Personally, I'm a bit interested in the hyper DPS Fleet Typhoon with minimal shield tank, although the lack of omnis may be problematic.


    Fleet Phoon and Golem, depending on the situation. If you can't shield tank it you're just doing it wrong.

    -Liang

    Ed: The SNI seems attractive for PVP usage... the resist bonus might outweigh the Phoon's extra damage. I'll have to look at it.

    I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
    Ersahi Kir
    Brutor Tribe
    Minmatar Republic
    #980 - 2013-05-17 19:02:54 UTC
    Andre Vauban wrote:
    Can we get a response to why the Dominix gets one less slot than all the other ships? At least now it has a bigger drone bay compared to all the other Navy BS, but there are still a ton of other Navy BS that get 125 bandwidth and > 125 m3 of drones which makes them unbonused drone boats as well. Giving another turret hard point would definitely be over powered. We could debate about what another low/mid would do to it. However, another utility high seems very reasonable to me and brings it inline slot wise with the other ships.


    Ships that get drone bonuses all have 1 less slot. At least the ones that have received tiericide.

    Whether or not this is right is another conversation, but that's the reason.