These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Test Server Feedback

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

[Odyssey Feedback Request] New Sensor Overlay

First post First post
Author
Arduemont
The State of War.
#281 - 2013-05-16 14:45:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Arduemont
Not sure if I have already said this... but I want to make the point that the scanner shouldn't be automatically running when you enter a system. You should at least have to turn the scanner on to receive the benefits. If it's going to run automatically then you might as well just put the damn sites in the normal drop down menu for the system.

Positives; Like the animation and the UI for highlighting sites is great. Love the fact you can run it permanently and it's awesome that ore sites now show up on a normal scan.

"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf

Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc
Tactical-Retreat
#282 - 2013-05-16 15:12:02 UTC
Okay, the new podding animation (without blackscreen) is nice too !

However you only barely notice the red text at the bottom left corner since there is something else to see everywhere.

Signature Tanking Best Tanking

[Ex-F] CEO - Eve-guides.fr

Ultimate Citadel Guide - 2016 EVE Career Chart

Zerb Arus
WormSpaceWormS
#283 - 2013-05-16 15:35:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Zerb Arus
If the purpose is to move things from excel to space, Im afraid its failing its purpose for me.
If it is an aid that helps a newbie to accidentally stumble over a signature, who otherwise would not even have guessed that such things exist, than its ok.

Spinning the camera in circles and then missing something anyways .... Im back to exclusively using probes because it gives me a headache otherwise.
You sould consider showing the results (not only anomalies but also signatures) immediately in the scanner window too, or on the F11 map (that hardly anyone uses) or at least the solarsystem-map (th F10 one)

Dont get me wrong, It looks awesome and sci-fi but the usability is almost non-existent.
In case the rumors about the plans of removing the list in the scanner-window entirely are true, please reconsider!

There HAS to be some way to see signatures from 3rd person. (like when you are looking at the map)
There Is a reason that radar data is usually not displayed in 1st person in real world applications.
Smoking Blunts
ZC Omega
Goonswarm Federation
#284 - 2013-05-16 18:04:32 UTC
Rammix wrote:
Smoking Blunts wrote:

I would be happy if.
1. this can be turned off and the scan list can only be filled the old way
2. if it cant be turned off at least make it as practical as the old push button list way

I'm sure (or I believe Smile ) they'll let us turn off that part which makes it activate automatically on entering a system. Without that irritating animation it's fine as it is. Who needs to look for sigs / carebears - turns it on. All others turn it off and don't get irritated in every system on their way.


an option to turn it off would be my first choice tbh.

but if they are going to make it on all the time, linking both systems makes for a more uniformed approach. plus removing the list form is just plain stupid

OMG when can i get a pic here

Adunh Slavy
#285 - 2013-05-16 18:16:19 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:

The list view onboard scanner is still in this version of SISI, but we are planning on removing it barring any major problems with the sensor overlay. Ideally we want to keep the number of tools people need to learn the same with this change, not increase it.



Still need a list to make it easier to keep track of things and communicate with other players. "Fly to XYZ-123" is a lot simpler than "undock, look up, then left a bit, and see that thing over the moon? okj now look just below that" ... messy.

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt

Gaia Ma'chello
Photosynth
#286 - 2013-05-16 20:13:32 UTC
Adunh Slavy wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:

The list view onboard scanner is still in this version of SISI, but we are planning on removing it barring any major problems with the sensor overlay. Ideally we want to keep the number of tools people need to learn the same with this change, not increase it.



Still need a list to make it easier to keep track of things and communicate with other players. "Fly to XYZ-123" is a lot simpler than "undock, look up, then left a bit, and see that thing over the moon? okj now look just below that" ... messy.

I got to agree. A list is needed. Also if you are monitoring sites to see if a new one has shown up, having to write down all you can see, then constantly compare the written list to stuff you see in space is a pain. Its also a pain to have to keep spinning the ship all over to look for new stuff. Far worse than clicking the scan button every 5 seconds.
Terrorfrodo
Interbus Universal
#287 - 2013-05-16 20:40:02 UTC
The new version of the overlay looks much cleaner and cooler, also less irritating. Could get used to that.

Having to look for new signatures in space instead of a list would have some appeal, because it requires more effort, besides moving EVE away from spreadsheetiness. However, having to spin not only in a circle, but also upwards and downwards is really irritating.

.

Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc
Tactical-Retreat
#288 - 2013-05-16 23:17:05 UTC
Terrorfrodo wrote:
(...) Having to spin not only in a circle, but also upwards and downwards is really irritating.


This.

Signature Tanking Best Tanking

[Ex-F] CEO - Eve-guides.fr

Ultimate Citadel Guide - 2016 EVE Career Chart

Van Kuzco
Perkone
Caldari State
#289 - 2013-05-16 23:33:51 UTC
Terrorfrodo wrote:
The new version of the overlay looks much cleaner and cooler, also less irritating. Could get used to that.

Having to look for new signatures in space instead of a list would have some appeal, because it requires more effort, besides moving EVE away from spreadsheetiness. However, having to spin not only in a circle, but also upwards and downwards is really irritating.


Solution: Get rid of the Discovery Scanner as real time intel tool by putting in a five minute delay between scans (or reset on a session change).

Take away the ability for it to auto repeat.

This solves the problem of:

1. People constantly spinning their ships to find new sigs
2. People complaining about that annoying animation every few seconds
3. People not receiving automatic real time intel

Put back in DSPs so they can be used for what they've always been used for.
Solanar
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#290 - 2013-05-17 00:21:34 UTC
20 minutes of spinning the camera around gives me a headache. No list is unusable.

Also, the latest update has made it even more difficult to find what you want in systems with large amounts of anomalies.

Find ZIJ-383!

http://i.imgur.com/mmzDtRj.jpg

Now try and do the same thing using the list scanner:

http://i.imgur.com/FtcWLRE.png

Just give people the option between the two and everyone will be happy. I think the people that play eve can deal with learning two different ways to do the same thing and figure out when to use each.
Brainless Bimbo
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#291 - 2013-05-17 06:55:07 UTC
Solanar wrote:
20 minutes of spinning the camera around gives me a headache. No list is unusable.

Also, the latest update has made it even more difficult to find what you want in systems with large amounts of anomalies.

Find ZIJ-383!

http://i.imgur.com/mmzDtRj.jpg

Now try and do the same thing using the list scanner:

http://i.imgur.com/FtcWLRE.png

Just give people the option between the two and everyone will be happy. I think the people that play eve can deal with learning two different ways to do the same thing and figure out when to use each.


I been saying this from the start, all sigs will be spammed like this and unusable on screen due to cosmic geometry, everything basically on one plane, and POV to celestials varies so it will be a quite common occurrence, in some systems on entry it may be the norm.

CCP doesn´t seem to have an astrophysicist on the team to point out little things like this, all they have is dev´s distracted by shiny objects.

already dead, just haven´t fallen over yet....

Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc
Tactical-Retreat
#292 - 2013-05-17 06:59:13 UTC
Given that the goal to move away from spreadsheets in space is to make the game more accessible, I must say that quite ironically, the list is clearly better for this purpose here. Lol

Signature Tanking Best Tanking

[Ex-F] CEO - Eve-guides.fr

Ultimate Citadel Guide - 2016 EVE Career Chart

Galmas
13.
Enigma Project
#293 - 2013-05-17 08:50:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Galmas
Please, can we have a switch to disable the automatic scan on entering system. Pretty pointless to have all that scanning going on when i just have to travel 20 jumps to some random destination. (or i could just question the wasted server time if you need a technical reason.) : )

edit:
that button to switch of the automatic scan is a must have really. when you jump into an engagement and there are a lot of anomalies/signatures (w-space, hinthint) you can hardly do anything in the main window anymore... beside watching the explosion of your ship. Please always keep the PVP aspect of the game in mind, pretty please.

edit:
i think what i would like to have is a button in the directional scanner window for doing the overlay scan and check boxes next to it to enable/disable the automatic scan as well as the continuous overlay scan.

edit:
Alright, played with it again, the stuff detected and shown by the new overlay system should show up in the scanner window (and in the system map), maybe with 0% signal strength. Having them not showing up feels inconsistent. Removing the scan window table if signatures hopefully won't happen at all. i mean it would make scanning that just is about to become less tedious totally horrible since you would need to move the camera around to check for the signatures. I can't imagine the benefit there.

I totally appreciate that you are making exploration more accessible and obvious for newcomers but please invest some time into getting the needs of the vets and the newcomers met at once. For w-space vets this automatic overlay scan is a nightmare, also when you travel a w-space route that already good bookmarked it rather makes you loose overview regarding the perils of w-space, which none-blue players are.

Off-Topic:
Massive cheers for the new scanning system with 90% reduced clicks and keystrokes for scanning. !!!!!!
Galmas
13.
Enigma Project
#294 - 2013-05-17 08:53:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Galmas
once i open the radial menu behind the scanner window button my mouse gets very laggy. feels like half a second delay between the mouse pointer in the client and the mouse on the pad, while it prolly is way less. please fix.

edit: and i cant move the mouse above the horizontal centerline of the screen once that radial menu is open
Naren Vintas
Some Assembly Required.
#295 - 2013-05-17 09:43:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Naren Vintas
Right. I won't be saying anything that wasn't said already, but I'm going to do it anyway, for the sake of count of feedback, so you lot can add it to the statistics.

I won't lie to you: I kinda like the new scanner, however I do not like its usefulness - or rather, the lack of thereof.
Yes, having a fancy effect of you ship scanning space looks cool. Having anomalies in the 3d environement overlay is also looking nice. However:

1. Please, do not run the scanner automatically upon entering the system. Just don't. It is forcing the player into seeing more stuff than they need or want to see. What about the people who don't give a damn about scanning? Or what about the people who do, but are currently doing something else and do not want to be distracted by it?

1.1. Alright. So, right now, the scanner does run automatically. We get the popups of signatures and anomalies. I'm opening the scanner window to see the list of them. And, wait. There's nothing? So, basically, our ship scans the space, but does not post the result to a readable source? That needs to be changed. Furthermore, onwards to the point 2.

2. You want to get rid of too many spreadsheets in game. But in doing so, with example of the scanning, you are trying to remove spreadsheets/lists from where their existence is necessary. This is Spaceships in space game. Sometimes, spreadsheets are necessary.

Really. I much prefer to have a list of anomalies and signatures that I am trying to keep track of, rather to have them in space in 3d overlay. It has been mentioned many times already: It gives us headache. In 3d, you need to actively look for anomalies/signatures to find it, in all axis. Not only is it much harder than looking for them on the list, it's also much easier to miss something.

3. Real-time updates. As in point 1.1, our ship automatically scans space if set to do so. Doing that, should regularly populate and update the scanner list.

In summary, and in suggestions:

Having nice scanning overlay is a neat addition, but whose only pro is being a cosmetic detail. In its current state it fails in anything else. Please remove the compulsory initial scanning when entering the system, but keep the option to manually turn it on. That will make whole more lot people happier.

Please, do not remove spreadsheets/lists from where they are absolutely necessary. The moment you remove the anomalies/signatures list from scanner as it is now, I can imagine a lot of people losing interest in using that feature. Right now, you might as well add the Anomalies into the Right-Click menus.

One more thing. I would rather be able to use Radial Menu on the Anomalies pins in space, than to see the current implementation of their tooltips (or to have both). With a little effort, you could move all the information and functionality of the Anomalies' tooltips into the Radial Menu.

That is all for now, cheers.
Ralmar Kimnot
Okorer
#296 - 2013-05-17 11:31:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Ralmar Kimnot
There have been comments from CCP and others along the lines of 'we will take away the list so that people don’t have two learn to interfaces'.

Before the proposed changes we had:

A scanner button that opened up the scanner menu. This was one window with common functionality and lists covering moon, probe, directional & anomaly scanning.

After the proposed changes we will have:

A scanner button that opens a radial menu, one option started the new discovery overlay, while other options open the existing scanner window. For moon and directional scanning you use the existing window with lists. For anomaly and probe scanning you use the new overlay.

Removing scanner and anomaly results from lists will ensure people only have to learn one interface !! Really?

We used to have one interface with common functionality, look and feel that provided information in an easy to use flexible way. Now we have 2 interfaces one of which is clearly a big step in the direction of neon colours and space invader graphics to the detriment of functionality.

I know the guys at CCP have put a lot of work into this and I also know they are doing what they think is best. CCP Seagul described the discovery scanner as beutiful in one of the fanfest keynotes so critism probably comes across as harsh but these changes arent an improvement. New players may find it appealing but it won't hold their attention.
Durzel
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#297 - 2013-05-17 11:38:58 UTC
I'm sure it's been said already, but I'm going to say it again... the new sensor overlay needs to show signatures and anomalies as if they are brackets - i.e. if they are not visible on screen you can see them at the edge of the screen so you know which way to rotate the camera.

I jumped around a few systems on SiSi this morning and just about heard that there were signatures in the system (the sound it makes when one is detected is barely audible :lolevehassound: ), but even after doing a couple of 360 sweeps with the camera (this is a bad user experience imo) I still missed a couple that were revealed once I'd dropped probes.
Adan Natrier
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#298 - 2013-05-17 14:23:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Adan Natrier
Sensor shadows are still not tracking through warp. Today - http://i.imgur.com/mx8t4j3.jpg

Reproduce simply by entering warp as soon as you get into system (for example, like you have somewhere to go) to something far enough away for the shadow location to be pronounced enough to be visible.

Since the previous patch to new sensor overlay, if the sensor is in 'always show' it does discontinue (the visual) in warp - but not for the initial scan. This locks the superimposed clouds in as shown. Still obviously concerned how the visual doesn't really show what the sensor is doing - it does scan while in warp - it doesn't pause it like the effect('s absence) implies.

(would love AU distances to be displayed over planet brackets, but I guess being brackets is why they won't get them.)
Kraiklyn Laduko
Sunstrike Enterprises
#299 - 2013-05-17 15:38:38 UTC
The scanner overlay looks nice but having been exploring in Sisi today I find that I don't use it. If I'm exploring then I''m carrying probes that I will have to drop anyway to actually scan things down. So I just drop the probes and get the results where I need them, in a nice list. So really there is no change from how I used to explore except now I can't scan a whole system in one go because the DSP has been taken away.

Having to spin my view around and around and around and around to look for things in space is really annoying after about the first go at it and it really tells me not very much.

If you are not exploring then the information from the scan is useless anyway so there should be a way to turn it off completely.

Arriaz
TxivYawg
#300 - 2013-05-17 15:49:16 UTC
The scanning results and the overlay are not linked.

This is important, was this an oversight or a choice. If was a choice, please explain why. If this was an oversight, please link it before Odyssey goes live.

Picture if you will a naval vessel at sea. It can use sonar to see below and radar to see above. Interestingly the ship does not need to point in the direction of the signal. This is a good thing in the case of pointing to a submarine. Oh wait, the ship does not need to point in the direction of the signal, just the crew. I see. The officer of the watch needs to be constantly turning 360 degrees on three axis in order to see any new contacts. I wonder if they get special physiotherapy for that little maneuver.

I am glad that none of our current user friendly technology made it into the future; where would the fun in that be.