EVE General Discussion

So. Your argument is that it's boring to grind up isk to pay for a new clone and if people don't have to do that more people would pvp?

I don't believe that is correct. The costs of pvp is not what's drivning players away from it. Either you like pvp in all kinds and try to find it in a way that suits you or you don't like it and stay clear of it. Clone costs wont change that.

I do believe that you are correct that the isk sink of clone costs are relatively small.

However, the major thing about this game is that losses should (in my opinion) hurt. This is not a game where you respawn with all your gear when you die. That is the beauty of it. That you need to get isk to pay for a new ship or pod or whatever you just lost. I see that you don't share my opinion on this matter. I will leave it at that and just ask you:

- why do you pvp if losses or wins doesn't mean more than killboard stats or a killmail?

You have been misinformed.

If you exclude capital ships then you're probably looking at around 130mill SP of relevant PvP skills - and that's not maxing everything out.

With 60M skill points you can't perfectly fly all T1/T2/T3 ships up to battleship in a single race. With average skill levels yes, with perfect skills no, it's about the double.

It is possible... people tell me a lot of thing s on this forum.

Every reply i readed was about "new players" being able to make lots of money ... Which wasnt the point , the point was that veteran characters , can and usually make enough money to be able to lose more and pay more .
I doubt they should be taxing someone on how "good/smart" he is , but the sp or age of his character is a pretty decent indicator . Important point , its not about new player's arent able to make billions , but about OLDER players being able to make Lots/enough .
Mining/manufacturing/mission the standart stuff people do , yes there are scammers , super succesful traders and so on , but lot of eve population is still normal players and they do normal stuff . So that stuff should be enough at 100m sp to buy clones

Just because a player is "old" in EVE doesn't necessarily translate into lots of ISK any more than owning golf clubs means that person is a pro at Golf.

It's possible to simply let your toon train year after year without doing much of anything else. Or, such as in my case, I am an industrial toon and I don't PVP. That being said, I don't have that much time to play EVE so I don't have a lucrative income either. Yes, clone costs are a consideration for me and PVP in addition to ship/fits loss. I'll PVP when I have ISK to throw away because typically, that's what ends up happening. Replacing clones, implants, ships, modules, etc... is a pretty good hit to the wallet and a problem if your wallet isn't heaping over.

-- Zen

Nope, it's not a matter of taxing stupidity or smartness because then taxes would be raised at 100% for everything.
It's a matter of taxing activity and not the capacity of, because one exists and the other is hypothetical.

So what do we have?

Characters without implants very low skills some not even training any more after the required skills for trading, dealing and strongly impacting in the game economy, which is NOT an intended mechanic.
These characters for most and because of this activity don't need implants, don't undock with expensive ships or ships at all, don't get podded and the only downside of their activity is to pay the same level of taxes than any one else that plays the game as intended.

On the other side you have skilled characters that have to reduce their activity because they're penalized for actually playing the game as it is intended, which is silly at levels beyond any reason.

So where's the real problem and the connection?

There's the SP connection and the fact SP does not mean richer, it's only a difference in economical activity, not because of some whatever idiots idea of smarter or less smarter choices.

The problem is that the economy penalizes the player on the long run SP doing anything else than log on for trading and log off to play world of tanks or planetside 2, because of this silly isk sync put in clones when it should be put on market trading and fees results in less risks taken by those players by limiting their pvp activity.

Do you understand or you don't want to understand?

They don't even need to pay taxes if they make a solo corp.


Edit: They do have to pay trading costs but then so does everyone, but then maybe that's what you meant. Although their trading costs will be lower than a lot of peoples as they have the relevant skills trained.

my post may have come off as a bit immature, but looking at the op's post

"With full set of implants +4s im looking at 100 million isk if i die thats one hell of a death penalty. Clone cost need to be reduced or caped to a level were its not a detriment to pvp."

lets break down the post , basically he is saying "high clone" cost's are a detriment to pvp., well where do you pvp? low/null/high/

i would say youre reasonably okay with flying 4s through low and probably okay with 4s and 5s in highsec, provided you know to warp off after a fight, i wouldnt be rocking anything above 3s in null, simply because its null(bubbles)

its a matter of changing what you do, 100mill isk should be so minuscule to a 100mill sp char, its only a small percentage of the expensive ass skills you have implanted over time.

basically, you and by you i mean anyone who complains about high clone costs have no argument.

there are only two ways you can pay for eve, youre eithering plexing or or paying with real cash, doesnt matter which of the two you are doing, if you are doing either or, you are putting in the time and effort to keep your game running and if you can do that you can afford 100 mill.

Clone costs are a joke, always have been. I make more than enough isk to support myself, yet i still think its completely stupid how much i have to spend on a pod when dictor bubbles have made podding the norm.

Over the past few expansions CCP has made a lot of changes to help out newer players while not much is done for older players. With as many times as threads pop up about clone costs being too high its pretty clear the majority of High Skilled players would like to see a change in this area.