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Enough is Enough: Nerf Minmatar
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Alara IonStorm
#221 - 2011-11-03 21:45:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Alara IonStorm
Izuru Hishido wrote:


Kay.
Javelin Torps with 3%-5% implants, but you do need one rocket fuel cache partition. With 3%'s you can easily exceed fifty kilometers. I think the max range I got was sixty seven kilometers.lf.

Yet it is terribly inaccurate for fleets and slows your ship to a crawl making range control harder. But a fleet relying on Implants, good job.

Izuru Hishido wrote:

800's get close to 70km without any tracking computers/enhancers. lf.

Optimal Genius most of that Dmg gets lost in falloff.


Izuru Hishido wrote:

I've got a corpmate who has a mega setup that gets 60km optimal with antimatter with blasters. Think that negates your entire argument. No wasted rig slots either. Not giving you the fit either.

Roll What interesting fantasies you have.

Izuru Hishido wrote:

Oh, and also, you don't need a tracking comp to get above 50km on scorch. You just need to think about it and you'll get above 50. Don't hurt yourself though.

On an unbonused ship you need a TC, TE, Implant or Rig to get that.
Izuru Hishido wrote:

So there, a short list. I've shown AC's get a long range in certain circumstances. Torps, Blasters, Pulses, they all hit out to sixty or higher if you know what the hell you're doing. Obviously you don't, or you'd have figured this out before crying that everything's broken. You'd probably be one of the people that would fit a large shield booster to a geddon, given the fact that you couldn't figure this out yourself.

Well you have proven it 50+ Optimal for all those weapons... Roll

Now that I said what I want and this thread has been relocated to crazytown I shall ride my L Shield Booster Geddon into the Sunset.
Vmir Gallahasen
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#222 - 2011-11-03 21:45:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Vmir Gallahasen
Izuru Hishido wrote:
I've got a corpmate who has a mega setup that gets 60km optimal with antimatter with blasters. Think that negates your entire argument. No wasted rig slots either. Not giving you the fit either.

Your friend, he has been dishonest with you.

6% falloff implant, 6% optimal implant
[Megathron, New Setup 1]
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II

Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range

Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
[empty high slot]

Large Hybrid Locus Coordinator II
Large Hybrid Locus Coordinator II
Large Hybrid Locus Coordinator I


7.8km optimal, 29km falloff. That's pretty close. Right? You definitely disproved all those naysayers

P.S. Null -> 19km optimal, 36km falloff.
Vmir Gallahasen
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#223 - 2011-11-03 21:54:57 UTC
Just to keep all the bases covered:
[Rokh, New Setup 1]
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II

Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range

Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Antimatter Charge L

Large Hybrid Locus Coordinator II
Large Hybrid Locus Coordinator II
Large Hybrid Locus Coordinator I

12 + 29. Not even close man. 29km optimal with Null
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#224 - 2011-11-03 21:56:13 UTC
Izuru Hishido wrote:

800's get close to 70km without any tracking computers/enhancers. Figure out yourself how. No wasted rigs either.


Eh, hitting isn't the same thing as doing good DPS. Even a Mach/Vargur hurts that far out.

Quote:

I've got a corpmate who has a mega setup that gets 60km optimal with antimatter with blasters. Think that negates your entire argument. No wasted rig slots either. Not giving you the fit either.


Wat. Calling bullshit.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Nimrod Nemesis
Doomheim
#225 - 2011-11-03 21:56:16 UTC
lol
Izuru Hishido
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#226 - 2011-11-03 21:56:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Izuru Hishido
Vmir Gallahasen wrote:
Izuru Hishido wrote:
I've got a corpmate who has a mega setup that gets 60km optimal with antimatter with blasters. Think that negates your entire argument. No wasted rig slots either. Not giving you the fit either.



7.8km optimal, 29km falloff. That's pretty close. Right? You definitely disproved all those naysayers

P.S. Null -> 19km optimal, 36km falloff.


No, you are right, I just misspoke and said antimatter out of reflex (since its rare that blasters are used with anything but antimatter in my experience) when I should have said null. Also, it isn't a glass cannon super sniper fit, its plenty effective.

Okay, okay, laugh at me, I just started typing and wasn't reading what I was typing. Oops.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#227 - 2011-11-03 21:58:26 UTC
Izuru Hishido wrote:
Vmir Gallahasen wrote:
Izuru Hishido wrote:
I've got a corpmate who has a mega setup that gets 60km optimal with antimatter with blasters. Think that negates your entire argument. No wasted rig slots either. Not giving you the fit either.



7.8km optimal, 29km falloff. That's pretty close. Right? You definitely disproved all those naysayers

P.S. Null -> 19km optimal, 36km falloff.


No, you are right, I just misspoke and said antimatter out of reflex (since its rare that blasters are used with anything but antimatter in my experience) when I should have said null. Also, it isn't a glass cannon super sniper fit, its plenty effective.


Are you sure he didn't say he could hit at 60km? Because... that's totally different. It'd be crap damage but it can probably be done.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Izuru Hishido
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#228 - 2011-11-03 22:01:30 UTC
Yes, Liang, it was total range, not optimal. He could hit, and trust me, it hurts to be hit by a blasterboat at that range. Haven't flown the setup myself, but I imagine sixty is the edge of falloff, or barely out of optimal.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#229 - 2011-11-03 22:05:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Liang Nuren
Izuru Hishido wrote:
Yes, Liang, it was total range, not optimal. He could hit, and trust me, it hurts to be hit by a blasterboat at that range. Haven't flown the setup myself, but I imagine sixty is the edge of falloff, or barely out of optimal.


Speaking purely from memory, 60km would be optimal + falloff (and a bit) from a max range max implanted (range bonused) Rokh. A Mega would surely be hitting optimal + edge of 2x falloff at the absolute best. The only thing that'd hurt would be frigs or something.

-Liang

Ed: More than happy to be wrong here. I'd like to know I've been missing something for the last several years. :)

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Jill Antaris
Jill's Open Incursion Corp
#230 - 2011-11-03 22:12:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Jill Antaris
[Rokh, New Setup 2]
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II

Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range

Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L

Large Hybrid Locus Coordinator II
Large Hybrid Locus Coordinator II
Large Ancillary Current Router I

738 dps @ 27+34km. Behold, it does a massive 300 DPS at 60km. What?
Vmir Gallahasen
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#231 - 2011-11-03 22:13:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Vmir Gallahasen
Edit: beaten to it
Edit again: mega with 4 mag stabs and rest optimal range/falloff does just shy of 80 dps @ 60km
Nimrod Nemesis
Doomheim
#232 - 2011-11-03 22:15:47 UTC
We really need to stop this.

Attempting to publicize a well-kept secret fit that violates game mechanics is something that could come back to haunt Mr. Hishido in the future.
Izuru Hishido
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#233 - 2011-11-03 22:27:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Izuru Hishido
Nimrod Nemesis wrote:
We really need to stop this.

Attempting to publicize a well-kept secret fit that violates game mechanics is something that could come back to haunt Mr. Hishido in the future.



OH GOD I'M HAUNTED NOW! SOMEONE CALL THE GHOST HUNTERS! I'M AFRAID OF GHOSTS!

Hurr, yeah, I derped when I was speaking and made a bit of an ass out of myself. At least I can admit mistakes though, more than 98% of the people I've met though. My typographical fuckup has provided me with a much needed source of humor, though. Keep trying to guess though, I'm sure you'll hit it eventually, :D
Roosterton
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#234 - 2011-11-03 22:33:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Roosterton
Nimrod Nemesis wrote:
Roosterton wrote:
Alara IonStorm wrote:

1400mm Maelstrom
1400mm Tempest
Nano Tempest
720mm Nano Hurricane
Arty Muninn
Scimitar
Rapier
Huginn
Hound
Sabre
Broadsword

Vs

Caldari

HAM Drake
HML Drake
Nano Drake
HAM Tengu
100MN AB Tengu
Falcon
Rook
Basilisk
Cerberus
Manticore
Scorpion


Fixed.


Looks like someone is desperately grabbing at straws.




What? Pointing out a biased, incomplete argument is "grasping at straws now?" Or do you genuinely believe that scorpions suck at PVP and shouldn't be used? Roll

Quote:
HAM Tengu, 2x Nano Drake and HAM Drake are small gang ships not blob boats. The Basilisk is a lesser Scimitar for when you don't have a Scimitar. The Falcon/Rook are not often big fleet assets. Not enough to be worth mentioning. The 1600mm Plate Scorp is one I forgot about.

Also you forgot the Vulture which means I did.


I guess it depends on what you consider a "blob." If a blob is 100+ with supercaps on the field, then yes, nanodrakes and HAMdrakes/tengus are somewhat less useful. Mind you, a decent quantity of falcons and rooks can be useful in such a situation, though, for jamming out enemy logis or just reducing oncoming DPS.

And a Scimi is only really better than a Basilisk when you're either the only logi on the field, or trying to keep up with a fleet of vagas and cynabals. For just about everything else, I'd rather have two basis over two scimis.
Izuru Hishido
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#235 - 2011-11-03 22:37:21 UTC
No, pointing out a biased, incomplete argument just makes you wrong apparently, even when your logic is sound. Its like talking to a brick and expecting it to start singing Hamlet.
Nimrod Nemesis
Doomheim
#236 - 2011-11-03 22:53:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Nimrod Nemesis
Izuru Hishido wrote:
No, pointing out a biased, incomplete argument just makes you wrong apparently, even when your logic is sound. Its like talking to a brick and expecting it to start singing Hamlet.


You, of all people here, talking about logic?

Roosterton wrote:

What? Pointing out a biased, incomplete argument is "grasping at straws now?" Or do you genuinely believe that scorpions suck at PVP and shouldn't be used? Roll


No, I just think it's cute you threw HAMs in there (might as well include autocannon variants on the minmatar side if you're willing to make that stretch) just to make things look at bit more equitable. I'm quite comfortable putting the scorp on that list, but I don't feel that putting rook in the fleet list is genuine. Falcon/rook are gang ships and their effectiveness is diminished greatly in "fleet," numbers where you're simply better off having more logi for support. Personally, I thought the initial list was generous as hell for having the cerb on it.
Izuru Hishido
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#237 - 2011-11-03 22:55:02 UTC
Nimrod Nemesis wrote:
Izuru Hishido wrote:
No, pointing out a biased, incomplete argument just makes you wrong apparently, even when your logic is sound. Its like talking to a brick and expecting it to start singing Hamlet.


You, of all people here, talking about logic?

Rambling always gets the best of logic.
Tanya Powers
Doomheim
#238 - 2011-11-03 22:55:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Tanya Powers
Izuru Hishido wrote:
I've got a corpmate who has a mega setup that gets 60km optimal with antimatter with blasters.


Megathron 7 low slots, I'd like to see how you get 60km optimal in any operational Blaster megathron.

Some lol EFT fit Lol

edit: woot got owned above Lol

Well the good lesson with this stuff is that blasters need 7+4 slots of range mods+scrips +rigs to scratch paint at over 50km !!!

Way too overpowered for me sry, I can't fly it I don't have the skills Lol
Nimrod Nemesis
Doomheim
#239 - 2011-11-03 23:02:32 UTC
Izuru Hishido wrote:
Nimrod Nemesis wrote:
Izuru Hishido wrote:
No, pointing out a biased, incomplete argument just makes you wrong apparently, even when your logic is sound. Its like talking to a brick and expecting it to start singing Hamlet.


You, of all people here, talking about logic?

Rambling always gets the best of logic.


I think you just accidentally, your point.
Roosterton
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#240 - 2011-11-03 23:16:25 UTC
Quote:
No, I just think it's cute you threw HAMs in there (might as well include autocannon variants on the minmatar side if you're willing to make that stretch) just to make things look at bit more equitable. I'm quite comfortable putting the scorp on that list, but I don't feel that putting rook in the fleet list is genuine. Falcon/rook are gang ships and their effectiveness is diminished greatly in "fleet," numbers where you're simply better off having more logi for support. Personally, I thought the initial list was generous as hell for having the cerb on it.


Nanopests are AC ships. So fine, remove the HAM ships, also remove the nanopest. The list is still pretty even.

As for the Rook/Falcon, they're decent alternatives to Scorps if more mobility is needed. Maybe Scorps are more commonly used because flying them requires nothing but sitting there and activating jammers, but that doesn't nullify the viability of other ECM ships.