Market Discussions

I have been mininf for a while, and I have played EVE even longer and for a long time I wasn't to bothered by this but not I am having some thoughts that perhaps the pure miners need to lobby CCP to do something about it...

Minerals from Salvage and non-mining souces... perhaps Minerals should only come from PvR (Player v. Rock) as a matter of rule.

my thought is based on this - mineral prices are crap in Empire, not go good in the rest and that is a problem...and since Mining is supposed to be the underpin of the whole market in some textual sources from CCP we have to ask well, you can get around with rat-droppings...

I am think atm the moment I am more about Low-Ends from salvage, High-Ends probably aren't really an issue, but it could be - I would like to hear some math and inputs from high-enders and other professionals.

My thougth would be that if nothing else lets know out all, or at least most of the minerals from recycling - it shouldn't be an efficient means of gathers raw materials it should be a small amount of material that you can salvage and add to the core...

there could also be a progresive reduction - reduce alot of trit, but leave say zydrine the same.... this make the most sense to me as you may well get a little precious material from a recycle but the bulk of the cheap stuff should be lost I feel...

Ok, flames not welcome but constuctive discussion is always so... what do you all feel on this?

True, but then we could now refund the SPs so that wouldn't be a huge issue and the book is pretty cheap - just like learning, I think originally it sounded like a good idea, but two things I see right off.

1. once a mineral is mined, it can be recycled over and over again - and re-used in a fashion, yes some go bye-bye with each iteration, but it does degrade the need for Fresh, as the pool of minerals tied up in the universe is building at one rate but being removed at a much less rate due to this.

2. that since we cannot get components from rocks for rigs, why really should we get raw minerals from processed goods - we should only really get salvage from salvage and minerals from rocks, and so on - we are lacking the differential in source in the mining industry due to 1000 cuts I think that are killing out profession and profit margin to keep going.... getting to be where it is impossible to PLEX in HS in a hulk, not saying you should be rich but you should be able to break even on costs at least in HS and well it isn't happening... ships and modules are geting so cheap that there is no profit in that either, too much supply and not enough controls on the source - think we really need to do rock=minerals and that is it... and watch the markets correct organically.

I *think* it got suggested as (possibly) something of a throwaway thought that drone poo could be reduced in exchange for bounties. Introducing new ISK being potentially (esp in the current climate) somewhat more troublesome than introducing new minerals, I would be tempted to take this with a shovelful of salt.

edit: source of the thought - https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=224516#post224516 - how much weight to attach to that is of course up for debate but I'd personally advise against betting the house on it in the coming months.

I am not really worried about rogue drones or such - I am talking about a change back to the original way things where with mining being the sole means of production of minerals for manufacturing - every source outside that chipps away at the core systems of mining - mining should be for minerals, lets put rogue drones aside for the moment and lets simply look at loot - should loot be a major source of raw minerals for manufacture and in direct competition with mining/miners for that market share...

My point is just that with more sources the concept of mining has been so watered down as to not be a viable income source as a solo profession and that mission grinding for minerals is the new "mining" if such we should simply start to put out ships that can run L4s and have strip miners on it also - maybe a Paladin with full on hulk bonuses stacked on... (read sarcasm)...

I think we really need some clear lines in professions to market profts in the way of if one does an activity it shouldn't be overrun with side compitition from other non related activities.

well could be right - my local rats are crappy loot, but null may well be much better - IDK, mainly I think bots are the major issue... but there should perhaps be some restructuring also...

Maybe to put Low-ends in HS only and then have only High-ends in Low/null -so that if you want empire ore you have to mine it in empire...

this woul then cut the amounts of trit and such to 0.5 minerals to null and low and make them have to export from empire this in amounts - should would make for a travel reason to and from null... and would also cut down on some super-capital conga-lines I am sure...

Didn't they nerf the trash loot drop rate in order to curb minerals-from-loot back with Tyrannis or near then? And unless the mineral worth from reprocessing these items was replaced by something else, the price of most meta 3 and lower items would crash.

I used to get about 30B worth of refinable loot from 3 regions when i had my regional reprocessing orders up back in the days .As with regional orders i was allways at the bottom of pricing for them so only got a small percent offcourse of the general regional loot.

Now after a long break i decided to do some trade again so at start went for regional lootreproc again but this was AFTER the lootdrop nerf.The amounts i got then where laughable to say the least and i gave it up after a week or 3 as it was too much work for the profit it returned and went on another trade path.

What i want to say is that the nerf they got through allready killed lootamount by a huge percent yet it did not have any impact on the mineral pricing as most - me included - expected.

So now we are going to maybe see the 2nd mineraldropper be nerfed , that is the drone region drops.If it goes through i do not expect that much change now and killing lootdrop for missions completely will also not have the impact you as a miner so wish for in my point of view.

It allways is a matter of supply vs demand , kill loot in general , kill drone region drops and then make mining a lot harder then it is , that would be the only viable way to get minerals back up BUT then you'll get a lot of people complaining/whining on GD because it will be as much 'work' to mine as to do lvl 4's and lvl4's prob wiill still give a lot better return isk/hour.

The problem with mining , it's so easy my 3 year old can do it and he'll only need to click a button every so often too.You want mineralchange then change mining completely and make it look like an effort instead of lazymansisk.