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[Odyssey] Faction Navy Cruisers

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X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#661 - 2013-05-07 20:14:47 UTC
Mojo Joo wrote:


CCP make Omen navy issue agile like an minmatar ship; buff it's signature radius, agility and speed, and nerf the same characteristics on a minmatar ship, making ONI faster and more agile than SFI ! Make perfect sense, go forward bunch of... Ugh

ONI = attack faction cruiser
SFI = combat faction cruiser

So yes, CCP got it right.
kraiklyn Asatru
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#662 - 2013-05-08 05:08:58 UTC  |  Edited by: kraiklyn Asatru
XGal has a point here. ONI is supposed to be a big slicer ( slicer looks to be going he way of the dodo so whether this will work is still a question)

I do take issue though...Most navy cruisers look fine but they are gimping the SFI.. thats fine...if it wasnt that the SFI has a poor tank or very poor dps/projection. Yet now CCP does weird things again by increasing shield (srsly if you decrease agility and slow it down then why in hell would anyone want to shield tank it, especially with the TE nerf) if you tank it you are reduced to armour and 180s anyway (most common i'd say)

Anyway why mess with something that seems to be in the right position. Not that they will ever listen to that argument.
Ashina Sito
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#663 - 2013-05-08 05:40:13 UTC
Syrias Bizniz wrote:
The NVex...

but the way it is upcoming, it will be more about sustainability and ewar (Hello 1 med 3 small neuts, mwd, capbooster, scram, web, 1600mm or 800mm+MAAR and good tank/gank)


Problem is that you already can do all of that the way it is now. It can do both now but it will only be able to do one with the change. It takes away the one thing that has made drone ships great, flexibility to use them as you see fit, not as it is "suppose" to be.

Not that it matters, I am sure this is a done deal. I don't have the energy to fight it since nothing will change. Additionally I don't fly the Navy Vex or the Domi anymore.... nor will I after the changes.
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld
#664 - 2013-05-09 20:23:01 UTC
Ashina Sito wrote:
Syrias Bizniz wrote:
The NVex...

but the way it is upcoming, it will be more about sustainability and ewar (Hello 1 med 3 small neuts, mwd, capbooster, scram, web, 1600mm or 800mm+MAAR and good tank/gank)


Problem is that you already can do all of that the way it is now. It can do both now but it will only be able to do one with the change. It takes away the one thing that has made drone ships great, flexibility to use them as you see fit, not as it is "suppose" to be.

Not that it matters, I am sure this is a done deal. I don't have the energy to fight it since nothing will change. Additionally I don't fly the Navy Vex or the Domi anymore.... nor will I after the changes.


Agreed, everything these devs touch turns to **** lately.

Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction...
Verity Sovereign
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#665 - 2013-05-10 11:09:58 UTC
Nomen is going to cap out so easily.....
Jill Antaris
Jill's Open Incursion Corp
#666 - 2013-05-10 11:22:22 UTC
Verity Sovereign wrote:
Nomen is going to cap out so easily.....


True, especially with the AN Augoror becoming the new brawling cruiser, the AN Omen needs a bit more cap to use mwd and heavy puls for longer than 90s. Something around 2-2,5 minutes would be good I guess. That also would be a good opportunity to give the normal omen a bit more cap. Cool
Verity Sovereign
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#667 - 2013-05-10 18:07:42 UTC
Am I the only one that wants to see these get new names and models?

The Exequor and Navy exequor are nothing alike. The Nexequor is more like a Thorax.
Naugoror is more like a Mallus
Osprey... well its more like a Caracal... except there's already one of those... I want to see it changed to a navy moa, and give the caldari a navy hybrid cruiser

Scythe... not really like any of the standard cruisers, but I suppose most like the Belicose, being split weapons and all.

Right now its strange to go from T1 logi, to faction combat cruiser
CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#668 - 2013-05-12 13:54:00 UTC
Hey guys just wanted to let you know that I've caught up on all the posts I'd missed in this thread, thanks for the feedback.

I want to let you all know that these changes are up on SISI now for your testing. The navy cruisers are especially good for sisi testing as the kinds of playstyles they will be best at (solo/small gang) can be tested pretty well with sisi gameplay.

Now that we've got sisi updated I'm making the ship and module balance work my priority for the next two weeks so that we can make sure we get the most polished changes possible released in Odyssey.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie
Gosti Kahanid
Red Sky Morning
The Amarr Militia.
#669 - 2013-05-12 14:08:13 UTC
Verity Sovereign wrote:
Am I the only one that wants to see these get new names and models?

The Exequor and Navy exequor are nothing alike. The Nexequor is more like a Thorax.
Naugoror is more like a Mallus
Osprey... well its more like a Caracal... except there's already one of those... I want to see it changed to a navy moa, and give the caldari a navy hybrid cruiser

Scythe... not really like any of the standard cruisers, but I suppose most like the Belicose, being split weapons and all.

Right now its strange to go from T1 logi, to faction combat cruiser


This is a good point.
When I look at the Navy Slicer I always wondered why it has a other Name and a slightly other desighn that the Executioner. It also seems to be the only Navy Ship which is unique like that (if I don´t mistaken).
Now that some Navy-Ships are completely diffentent from theyr T1-counterparts, why not at least rename them to avoid confusion.

Sorry for my bad english
Avald Midular
Doomheim
#670 - 2013-05-12 20:24:42 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey guys just wanted to let you know that I've caught up on all the posts I'd missed in this thread, thanks for the feedback.

I want to let you all know that these changes are up on SISI now for your testing. The navy cruisers are especially good for sisi testing as the kinds of playstyles they will be best at (solo/small gang) can be tested pretty well with sisi gameplay.

Now that we've got sisi updated I'm making the ship and module balance work my priority for the next two weeks so that we can make sure we get the most polished changes possible released in Odyssey.


Any chance you can get caught up on the Battleship feedback threads too? The Amarr thread has been especially busy and has received no feedback in a while.
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#671 - 2013-05-13 00:57:41 UTC
Gosti Kahanid wrote:
Verity Sovereign wrote:
Am I the only one that wants to see these get new names and models?

The Exequor and Navy exequor are nothing alike. The Nexequor is more like a Thorax.
Naugoror is more like a Mallus
Osprey... well its more like a Caracal... except there's already one of those... I want to see it changed to a navy moa, and give the caldari a navy hybrid cruiser

Scythe... not really like any of the standard cruisers, but I suppose most like the Belicose, being split weapons and all.

Right now its strange to go from T1 logi, to faction combat cruiser


This is a good point.
When I look at the Navy Slicer I always wondered why it has a other Name and a slightly other desighn that the Executioner. It also seems to be the only Navy Ship which is unique like that (if I don´t mistaken).
Now that some Navy-Ships are completely diffentent from theyr T1-counterparts, why not at least rename them to avoid confusion.

Sorry for my bad english


Er, all the navy frigates have unique names.
Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#672 - 2013-05-13 13:36:17 UTC
I finally fit up a Navy Aug on SISI. I have a genolution set as well as energy damage implants on my TQ Amarr clone so I carried those over as well:

High:
Heavy Pulse II x 3
Medium Unstable Fluctuator x 2
Mid:
10MN AB II
Medium Cap Booster II
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler
Low:
1600mm RT Plate
EANM II x 2
DC II
Reactive Hardner
HS II x 2
Rigs:
MACR
Trimark x 2

Three Warrior II drones. Wheeee!

The in game fitting screen had me at 66k EHP. I was getting 640 DPS with conflag overheated. 419 DPS with Scorch (22km optimal + 5km falloff) That overheats to about 480 DPS. This ship is going to be scary.

Major Killz
inglorious bastards.
#673 - 2013-05-13 13:53:39 UTC
Osprey Navy Issues: will be annoying and lamed up with electronic warfare. So, I assume turret ships will be useless against it and dual propulsion and what not. *REALLY GOOD IN FLEETS*

Caracal Navy Issues: 'Rapid Light Missile Launcher' set-up will pop frigates and destroyers like bubbles. 'Heavy Assault Missile Launcher' set-up will apply consistent damage to low signature ships without a stasis webifier applied. *REALLY GOOD IN FLEETS*

Scythe Fleet Issues: I wont be using turrets on this ship. 'Heavy Assault Missile Launcher' set-ups will be effective close range and long with javelins. Much the same outcome with 'Rapid Light Missile Launcher'. *REALLY GOOD IN FLEETS*

Stabber Fleet Issues: Same ship for the most part.

ONIssues: Good counter against a SINGLE NON-BONUSED tracking disruptor and will be able to engage OUTSIDE of frigate locking range. Otherwise good all around. *REALLY GOOD IN FLEETS*

VNIssues: Good all around, drones all around. *REALLY GOOD IN FLEETS*

The rest don't MADA.


- killz

[u]Ich bin ein Pirat ！[/u]
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#674 - 2013-05-13 14:23:14 UTC
Zarnak Wulf wrote:
...This ship is going to be scary.

Scary fat, slow and dead ..

Plated AB fit = fat and slow.
Abysmal tracking and no fight control = dead.

Neuts are ineffectual against buffers and all but laser ships as blasters all have injectors thanks to more mids plus much lower cap usage.
With no real speed or ability to control it even frigs will a major threat as their *new* higher base speeds is enough to defeat M.Pulse tracking even without propulsion .. and three drones are not going to do much of anything.

It looks good on paper, but I fear that the limitations set by current meta game and those inherent in lasers with only three mids will give it a very small niche.

But a super-dense brick with sharp edges and room for a cyno is just what the doctor ordered for bait operations. Jokes on the people who adopt that use when cyno nerfs hits .. provided null doesn't manage to whine themselves out of that one.
Jonas Sukarala
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#675 - 2013-05-13 15:05:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonas Sukarala
The stabber fleet issue does intrigue me as a AB plated ship but AB's need some work as they add too much mass and leave you somewhat vulnerable to webs and neuts.
Also why add mass to it? its mass was fine it was balanced by being short ranged and the lower mass/extra speed helped with AB potential fits.

The caracal and Augoror has lower mass ... that's very strange for continuity i would think.
i think there is room to reduce the mass across the board though.

'Tech3 ships need to be put down, like a rabid dog drooling everywhere in the house, they are out of line' CCP Ytterbium Nerf missile range into place where is the TD missile change?  ..projectiles should use capacitor. ABC's should be T2 HABC and nerf web strength its still too high

Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#676 - 2013-05-13 15:16:10 UTC
Veshta Yoshida wrote:
Zarnak Wulf wrote:
...This ship is going to be scary.

Scary fat, slow and dead ..

Plated AB fit = fat and slow.
Abysmal tracking and no fight control = dead.

Neuts are ineffectual against buffers and all but laser ships as blasters all have injectors thanks to more mids plus much lower cap usage.
With no real speed or ability to control it even frigs will a major threat as their *new* higher base speeds is enough to defeat M.Pulse tracking even without propulsion .. and three drones are not going to do much of anything.

It looks good on paper, but I fear that the limitations set by current meta game and those inherent in lasers with only three mids will give it a very small niche.

But a super-dense brick with sharp edges and room for a cyno is just what the doctor ordered for bait operations. Jokes on the people who adopt that use when cyno nerfs hits .. provided null doesn't manage to whine themselves out of that one.


I would point at the Maller. It has become a very powerful fleet ship in FW while using an AB and three mids. Fleets of Mallers backed by Augorers have torn apart Minmatar SFI fleets. It also uses an AB and only has three mids. This ship will fit very nicely in those fleets. It has half an effective turret more to go along with two medium neuts and a nicer tank. Time might force it to be a fleet ship - but it will be very nice there.

Also - In my experience two medium neuts trump a cap injector on anything cruiser or smaller. Even if you don't get immediate gratification - they have to survive a very long time under that neut pressure while going through the NAug's tank. Corpmates with LG slaves were getting 100k EHP fits on the thing.
Juicescro
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#677 - 2013-05-16 06:05:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Juicescro
Really happy about the improved drone tracking and -1 high on the Vexor Navy Issue.

Have several of them sitting in hangar unfit on my main, it was simply impossible to fit the highs (with cruiser sized weapons :P) with the current power grid and even have the tank of the regular Vexor.
Mariner6
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#678 - 2013-05-16 11:36:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Mariner6
Played on Sisi for a while last night with the NOMEN.

ITS amazing. In fact this may become my favorite boat to fly. With the right fit its ridiculously fast, incredible agility, hits out to 37km optimal with scorch and can absolutely dictate range. It easily fits a med cap booster and you can run everything for a long time while pumping 800's and occasionally letting up on the MWD. I had no problem with cap management what so ever.

Solo'd several ships with ease in this boat to include a T3 cruiser and others. Particularly nasty against frigs such as a poor daredevil who thought he had it easy. The drone bay is very nice.

Messed around fitting the Navy Vexor and Navy Exe. Really not happy with any of the fits yet on the Navy Exe. I find the fitting on it too tight and in no way survivable. Started a bit of testing with it and it simply struggles to apply dps, made worse by poor tracking and zero GTFO ability. No real reason to spend this much on a gank boat to be honest. A thorax I think will actually apply more real dps to most targets due to tracking, regardless of what EFT says. Granted this is with solo work, I suppose maybe in a gang it might be ok.
TheFace Asano
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#679 - 2013-05-17 14:48:09 UTC
had a couple of fights with the Caracal Navy Issue on Sisi. First one was with a talos. Spanked him with ease. Second was with a Zealot. Didn't fair so well there and couldn't scratch his tank. Pretty fun ship to fly.

Fit
6x HAMS tech II, 1x fleeting web, 1x Scram tech II, 1x LSE tech II, 1x 10mn burner, 1x Adapt Invul tech II, 3x Ballistic control tech II, 1x damage control
Akturous
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#680 - 2013-05-18 03:21:28 UTC
Willy Eckerslike wrote:
Akturous wrote:
You retards do understand that it's 10%/lvl for both missiles and guns right?

So you're actually getting 4 bonuses. This is what should have happened to the phoon.

If you can't understand this, jump off a bridge (the jump kind).


The Scythe FI gets two bonusses (bonii, whatever). Count them. One. Two. That's right, two bonusses. However, they each only apply to one weapon system. So fit a single weapon of choice and that weapon system gets ONE bonus. Count it. One. That's right. One bonus.

Fit two different weapon systems in a split formation and each system gets one bonus. Count it. One. That's right. One bonus.

Now look at all the other ships. They get two bonusses for their weapon system.. You fit that weapon system and you get two bonusses. Count them. One. Two. That's right. Two bonusses.

Who did you say was the ******? Ignorance is bliss.

The projectile bonus does not apply to missile systems and the missile damage bonus does not apply to projectiles.

Get rid of the split weapon system and let us have two bonusses for a single weapon, like all the others. Split weapons are old hat.

I thank you.

Edit: Apparently re-tard is a naughty word


10% is the equivalent of two normal 5% bonuses. Some people, seriously.

Vote Item Heck One for CSM8