Player Features and Ideas Discussion

I have recently learned about fake buy orders the old fashioned way. But, I have one concern. Not about fake contract items, not about being too stupid to actually know what I am buying.

My only issue is that after I sell items into a "fake" buy order on the market, I am immediately charged market fees for a sell order and those items get placed for sale.

Here I am thinking I am selling items into a 1billion buy order and instead, I end up losing about 10-15 mil on fees because of this fake buy order. I don't think that is a part of scamming. That is just game mechanics screwing over legitimate people.

For those not aware of "fake buy orders" They are buy orders using margin trading that once the seller places, he sends all of his isk away to another character. Once that buy order is filled, the seller doesn't have enough isk to complete the sale. The buyer gets forced into placing a sell order for those same items and ends up eating all the fees associated with the sell. All the time, the seller(of the buy order) gets his escrow back and only loses the broker fee.

That's not right. That's exploitation of game mechanics, not scamming. There is absolutely no way for a buyer to tell if a buy order is real or not on the market. None that I know of. Therefore, they shouldn't be punished by attempting to sell into what seems like a legitimate buy order by being forced to pay the fees and then creating a sell order without their knowledge.

They should be notified that the buyer does not have enough funds to complete the transaction and given options for their next move.

I understand this. I am not upset at the scam itself. The game mechanics unduly favor the scammer over the regular player. As long as the regular player isn't screwed over by selling into a buy order, I think we are back to even. Until then, the game literally favors scammers over regular players.

In my opinion, it should be an even playing field. A astute player should be able to figure out the scam and avoid it. The game has made numerous advances in the way contracts show information to support this idea.

So, the devs already agree with this idea via their previous changes. Now, they need to address this outlier.

If you pay attention to what you are doing you will not get scammed, if you search the forums you will see this gets covered a lot.
CCP is ok with how margin trading works and it is up to you to not get scammed.

^This. A real world example might make more sense out of this.

Let's say you are selling a classic car. You have found a buyer of these types of cars on the other side of the country. You see that he is ready to buy and in fact is using an auction service that verifies he has the money before hand. An auction service that is backed and setup by the government.

You go across the country to sell this car of yours. When you get to the auction, you sell your car to this gentleman. But, as soon as you do, you are notified that he no longer has enough money to buy your car. Not only that, you are forced to place it for sale for the same price and charged the auction fees automatically. You are appalled at this, cancel your auction and just lose the market fees.

If we add values to this it looks something like this. There is a buy order for a million dollars. Car generally only sells for 300k, but this buyer appears to really want it. That's why you traveled all the way across the country to sell it. He is using a government backed auction agency. So you know the auction is legit anyways. So following the strategy above, the guy not only fails to sell his car for a million after transporting it across the country, he is charged 10,000 dollars automatically out of his account and cannot get the money back for attempting to sell it to that guy.

We aren't talking about margin trading or scamming. We are talking about fake buy orders that cause the buyer to automatically setup a sell order and pay the associated fees. When the buy orders are relatively large, this forces unduly high fees on the person trying to fill the buy order.

Did you show the same concern, when you thought you were going to make good ISK off another player with that deal?
I'm guessing not. So please explain why you should have special treatment, because it turns out the investment was a bad one?

Sorry, but no.

oh noes, this again.
margin trading is working fine, you should better do market research.

Margin trading scam only works for people who doesnt look properly, which is fine and seeds out noob players from market games.