These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Woot, woot. Now even easier to get out of a war dec.

First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#321 - 2013-05-15 23:17:09 UTC
Roime wrote:

Yes, there would still be the missions intended for new players. And new players are the target audience of hisec.




Citation? Evidence?

I think the target audience for high sec is anyone that doesn't want to have to deal with the BS that is low and null sec. Old, new, carebear, griefer, trader, scammer... HiSec is for all that want a more relaxed play style.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#322 - 2013-05-15 23:22:27 UTC
LHA Tarawa wrote:
Old, new, carebear, griefer, trader, scammer... HiSec is for all that want a more relaxed play style.


Except for the fact that new players are completely edged out, even in hisec, by multiboxers and botters

"Relaxed playstyle" my aching ass

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#323 - 2013-05-15 23:22:46 UTC  |  Edited by: LHA Tarawa
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
All these people who want to turn EVE into a single-player money-grind experience...I don't get it. There's a perfectly-good single-player game series called X3 out there that is exactly what they're looking for. Why are they coming to EVE and trying to turn it into a whole new game, when there are products on the market that already cater to their wants?



Avoiding the hostile exchange of ammo in space is NOT the same thing as single-player. I work with friends ALL the time, mining, hauling, manufacturing, sharing resources, missioning, salvaging, etc., etc.
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#324 - 2013-05-15 23:24:21 UTC
Andski wrote:
LHA Tarawa wrote:
Old, new, carebear, griefer, trader, scammer... HiSec is for all that want a more relaxed play style.


Except for the fact that new players are completely edged out, even in hisec, by multiboxers and botters

"Relaxed playstyle" my aching ass


Is this the new Goon mantra. High sec must be nerfed becuase everyone there is a botter. Flat out lies.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#325 - 2013-05-15 23:26:01 UTC
LHA Tarawa wrote:
Is this the new Goon mantra. High sec must be nerfed becuase everyone there is a botter. Flat out lies.


No, hisec needs to be nerfed because it's broken as hell in terms of risk/reward. You know, one of the core aspects of the game, where high-risk activities (like running a nullsec anomaly or a wormhole site) are more rewarding than low-risk activities (like anything in hisec)

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#326 - 2013-05-15 23:27:36 UTC
LHA Tarawa wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
All these people who want to turn EVE into a single-player money-grind experience...I don't get it. There's a perfectly-good single-player game series called X3 out there that is exactly what they're looking for. Why are they coming to EVE and trying to turn it into a whole new game, when there are products on the market that already cater to their wants?



Avoiding the hostile exchange of ammo in space is NOT the same thing as single-player. I work with friends ALL the time, mining, hauling, manufacturing, sharing resources, missioning, salvaging, etc., etc.

Then maybe you're not in the subset of players that is the focus of my critique.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#327 - 2013-05-15 23:30:42 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
If you want to retain the majority of new players then obviously this game can't be a "cold, harsh universe," and it sure as hell can't have absolute pvp. CCP set out to make a niche game that is/does exactly those things, so at what point do we stop and say "gee guys, this is quickly becoming something we didn't set out to do"?

I mean, if they want a WoW in space, then they should just go and make a WoW in space; it's not like it would be difficult for them to do so.

Or are we just saying that there's no room for a game like EVE in today's gaming market? Or are people simply willing to let go of this game's original premise entirely in order to ensure higher growth? Do we have our priorities straight if that's the case? Do we necessarily need EVE and CCP to become huge? Would that necessarily benefit us as players, and CCP employees as developers?

I feel like I'm going off-topic, but those are questions I've wanted answers to for many years now.


WoW has a null sec, where you can take sov, build castles, control who can come into the castle, surround the castle with resource upgraes for farming? WoW has a player driven market? WoW has time based training vs Xp grind? WoW has actual loss of your stuff when losing a fight?

Ability to kill anyone, anywhere is not the key differentiating factor that sets EVE apart.
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#328 - 2013-05-15 23:32:34 UTC
Andski wrote:
LHA Tarawa wrote:
Is this the new Goon mantra. High sec must be nerfed becuase everyone there is a botter. Flat out lies.


No, hisec needs to be nerfed because it's broken as hell in terms of risk/reward. You know, one of the core aspects of the game, where high-risk activities (like running a nullsec anomaly or a wormhole site) are more rewarding than low-risk activities (like anything in hisec)



Null anoms ARE more rewarding than a high sec mission.
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#329 - 2013-05-15 23:34:55 UTC
Andski wrote:

Nobody is saying you shouldn't make a decent living, but when it's competitive with what you can make in more dangerous parts of the game that actually require effort and thought put into your gameplay, if not dwarfing it entirely, it is completely broken and must be nerfed to the ground in order to have a proper, balanced game.

I understand, you abhor thought and you just want instant gratification, but that's not what EVE is about.



Nerfing high sec to the ground, as you desire, will simply result in a MASS exodus from the game, and CCP bankruptcy.

You really want CCP to go bankrupt?
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#330 - 2013-05-15 23:35:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Andski
LHA Tarawa wrote:
Null anoms ARE more rewarding than a high sec mission.


There are literally two anomalies that are more rewarding than running hisec missions. And running incursions with a shiny fleet beats them both, with significantly less risk.

Oh, and CCP likes to nerf anomalies. God forbid nullsec income is competitive with incursions.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#331 - 2013-05-15 23:36:02 UTC
LHA Tarawa wrote:
Nerfing high sec to the ground, as you desire, will simply result in a MASS exodus from the game, and CCP bankruptcy.

You really want CCP to go bankrupt?


No it won't. Maybe you and people like DarthNefarius will leave, but the game is better off every time some "elite carebear" goes back to WoW

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Iudicium Vastus
Doomheim
#332 - 2013-05-15 23:40:32 UTC
LHA Tarawa wrote:
Andski wrote:
LHA Tarawa wrote:
Is this the new Goon mantra. High sec must be nerfed becuase everyone there is a botter. Flat out lies.


No, hisec needs to be nerfed because it's broken as hell in terms of risk/reward. You know, one of the core aspects of the game, where high-risk activities (like running a nullsec anomaly or a wormhole site) are more rewarding than low-risk activities (like anything in hisec)



Null anoms ARE more rewarding than a high sec mission.


Mind you, that's if they can even run it before someone pops them just because they're there and not blue to them. There's no reward for risk in running a null anom or exploration/DED site, because it's just plain all risk.

[u]Nerf stabs/cloaks in FW?[/u] No, just.. -Fit more points -Fit faction points -Bring a friend or two with points (an alt is fine too)
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#333 - 2013-05-15 23:40:39 UTC
LHA Tarawa wrote:
Andski wrote:

Nobody is saying you shouldn't make a decent living, but when it's competitive with what you can make in more dangerous parts of the game that actually require effort and thought put into your gameplay, if not dwarfing it entirely, it is completely broken and must be nerfed to the ground in order to have a proper, balanced game.

I understand, you abhor thought and you just want instant gratification, but that's not what EVE is about.



Nerfing high sec to the ground, as you desire, will simply result in a MASS exodus from the game, and CCP bankruptcy.

You really want CCP to go bankrupt?

Then I'm fully in favor of sharding the server to let the bears play in la-la land by themselves.

Or are you saying they will also leave if they have no one to sell their crap (that they created in perfect safety) to, since all the people who actually explode stuff aren't around anymore?

It's a give-and-take relationship, and carebears only take.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#334 - 2013-05-15 23:42:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Andski
LHA Tarawa wrote:
WoW has a null sec, where you can take sov, build castles, control who can come into the castle, surround the castle with resource upgraes for farming? WoW has a player driven market? WoW has time based training vs Xp grind? WoW has actual loss of your stuff when losing a fight?

Ability to kill anyone, anywhere is not the key differentiating factor that sets EVE apart.


Except that in EVE, CCP doesn't like it when people who actually play the game and compete with other players are rewarded properly for their efforts. They've nerfed income at all strata (strategic income like moons, line member income like anomalies) because worthless hiseccers cry about moon/anomaly income while defending hilariously broken crap like incursions.

CCP punishes those of us that create content that people read about, the stuff that draws people to EVE, while rewarding passive players in hisec for doing nothing besides farming metric tons of ISK until they get bored and cash out.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#335 - 2013-05-15 23:55:45 UTC
Andski wrote:
LHA Tarawa wrote:
WoW has a null sec, where you can take sov, build castles, control who can come into the castle, surround the castle with resource upgraes for farming? WoW has a player driven market? WoW has time based training vs Xp grind? WoW has actual loss of your stuff when losing a fight?

Ability to kill anyone, anywhere is not the key differentiating factor that sets EVE apart.


Except that in EVE, CCP doesn't like it when people who actually play the game and compete with other players are rewarded properly for their efforts. They've nerfed income at all strata (strategic income like moons, line member income like anomalies) because worthless hiseccers cry about moon/anomaly income while defending hilariously broken crap like incursions.

CCP punishes those of us that create content that people read about, the stuff that draws people to EVE, while rewarding passive players in hisec for doing nothing besides farming metric tons of ISK until they get bored and cash out.


The initial release of Dominion DID significanlty increase rewards from null. The result was MASSIVE ISK inflation because... guess what.... VAST areas of null are as safe or safer than hi sec.

When I was i null, I could make 2x as much running anoms as I can in high sec running missions, because of travel time to agents, having to grind the missions that suck, to get to the ones that pay well, etc.

CCP has repeatedly stated that by far, the null anom in a carrier runners make FAR more ISK than the best high sec missioners.


As for mining, again, that is a product of null not really being that dangerous. They can mine so many high end ores, that they have reduced high end mineral prices down to the value of null ores.
Julius Priscus
#336 - 2013-05-15 23:56:54 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:

I mean, if they want a WoW in space, then they should just go and make a WoW in space; it's not like it would be difficult for them to do so.



you must be talking about earth and beyond.. and we all know what happened there
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#337 - 2013-05-16 00:01:56 UTC
LHA Tarawa wrote:
The initial release of Dominion DID significanlty increase rewards from null. The result was MASSIVE ISK inflation because... guess what.... VAST areas of null are as safe or safer than hi sec.

Null might be "safer," but only due to player action, or in this case, inaction. No one stops you from forming a fleet and interrupting those ratting and mining operations.

High-sec's safety, on the other hand, is guaranteed by NPC mechanics.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#338 - 2013-05-16 00:03:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Andski
LHA Tarawa wrote:
The initial release of Dominion DID significanlty increase rewards from null. The result was MASSIVE ISK inflation because... guess what.... VAST areas of null are as safe or safer than hi sec.

When I was i null, I could make 2x as much running anoms as I can in high sec running missions, because of travel time to agents, having to grind the missions that suck, to get to the ones that pay well, etc.

CCP has repeatedly stated that by far, the null anom in a carrier runners make FAR more ISK than the best high sec missioners.


As for mining, again, that is a product of null not really being that dangerous. They can mine so many high end ores, that they have reduced high end mineral prices down to the value of null ores.


Nullsec is by far more dangerous than hisec. In a sov region, not only do you risk getting blown up, you risk losing access to your assets. You risk getting locked out, you risk having your PvE interrupted. You don't risk ANYTHING in hisec, period. The only risk you face now is the occasional suicide gank, and given the amount of effort that goes into blowing up a single ship in hisec, hisec is for all intents and purposes, perfectly safe.

The reason you see less kills of nullsec PvE ships is simply because they're not there - anyone with the right mind makes their ISK through hisec incursion running. It's safer, it's more lucrative and requires much less effort.

Also, Dominion significantly increased rewards in 0.0, yes - to the point that it was actually worth running sanctums. CCP was unhappy about it, since they hate nullseccers having ISK to create content with, so they nerfed sanctums into the ground and added incursions, which dwarf the average pre-nerf sanctum runner's income.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Lady Areola Fappington
#339 - 2013-05-16 00:08:23 UTC
LHA Tarawa wrote:


Nerfing high sec to the ground, as you desire, will simply result in a MASS exodus from the game, and CCP bankruptcy.

You really want CCP to go bankrupt?


I love how this is the default go-to when anyone discuss making things a little more dangerous. Well, this, and "The newbies!" argument.

I joined up with EVE way back when after hearing around the Goon/BoB war. I sure didn't join coz I heard about someone saving the Damsel for the 1000th time, or mining one million M3 of ore.


Also, I thought the latest conspiracy was Goons "own" CCP. If that's so, why are all these carebear friendly "improvements" coming down the pipe. Cognitive dissonance is a strong thing....

7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided. --Eve New Player Guide
EI Digin
irc.zulusquad.org
#340 - 2013-05-16 00:54:53 UTC
LHA Tarawa wrote:

The initial release of Dominion DID significanlty increase rewards from null. The result was MASSIVE ISK inflation because... guess what.... VAST areas of null are as safe or safer than hi sec.


http://i.imgur.com/aeIiteh.png