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Woot, woot. Now even easier to get out of a war dec.

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Wacktopia
Fleet-Up.com
Keep It Simple Software Group
#301 - 2013-05-15 13:11:17 UTC
To be honest, I'm not sure this changes a whole lot.

If you have a pos in hi-sec or an office or anything like that the whole 24-hour roles drop issue goes out of the window anyway.

Even if you declare war, it takes 24 hours to take effect now - so defending corps still have some opportunity to drop roles in that 24 hours and move. Or at worst have to wait but one day until they can move to NPC.

Non-issue to be honest.

Kitchen sink? Seriousy, get your ship together -  Fleet-Up.com
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#302 - 2013-05-15 17:16:15 UTC
March rabbit wrote:
new players need to start somewhere. So yes, high-sec has its place in the game.


More like "6 year old players need a safe place to run their bots"

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#303 - 2013-05-15 17:23:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Andski
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
Dear me Andski, lo-sec and null-sec are going to be seriously buffed on June 4, and you are still whinging about hi-sec.

You should ask your corp to give you some sort of meaningful role that you can usefully do, then you might enjoy your play-time in Eve and stop your incessant whinging about hi-sec.

The constant whining noise from some null-sec folk is just becoming tedious.


Yes and highsec will still be the best space in the game by leaps and ******* bounds. CCP will never nerf the living **** out of incursions and l4s and tell the worthless minority of "carebear elite" to pound sand when they start whining because THEY MIGHT LEAVE AND CCP MIGHT LOSE A TINY AMOUNT OF REVENUE OH NO

The game would literally be better without them, but EVE is literally becoming a generic themepark MMO with every single "make hisec safer" patch since CCP only ever nerfs 0.0 because they want us in hisec

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
YuuKnow
The Scope
#304 - 2013-05-15 17:40:02 UTC  |  Edited by: YuuKnow
LHA Tarawa wrote:
According to latest dev blog, the need to wait 24 hours between dropping roles and quitting a player corp, is being removed.

War dec? Insta-drop corp to NPC corp.

SWEET!


Sad

CCP please don't do this. Leave the insta-quits to the Dustbunnies.

CCP is basically trying to change game mechanics based off Dust514 feedback. They have to remember that Dust514 and Eve are *completely different games* with a *completely different set of game mechanics* and appeal to different gaming styles. The attention deficet personalities of FPS gamers and the long-term stategist of Eve differ as well.

Trying to change Eve mechanics for Dust514 request will cause problems and keeping the games seperate in terms of mechanics is the best thing.

yk
Six Six Six
Doomheim
#305 - 2013-05-15 19:03:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Six Six Six
Andski wrote:
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
Dear me Andski, lo-sec and null-sec are going to be seriously buffed on June 4, and you are still whinging about hi-sec.

You should ask your corp to give you some sort of meaningful role that you can usefully do, then you might enjoy your play-time in Eve and stop your incessant whinging about hi-sec.

The constant whining noise from some null-sec folk is just becoming tedious.


Yes and highsec will still be the best space in the game by leaps and ******* bounds. CCP will never nerf the living **** out of incursions and l4s and tell the worthless minority of "carebear elite" to pound sand when they start whining because THEY MIGHT LEAVE AND CCP MIGHT LOSE A TINY AMOUNT OF REVENUE OH NO

The game would literally be better without them, but EVE is literally becoming a generic themepark MMO with every single "make hisec safer" patch since CCP only ever nerfs 0.0 because they want us in hisec




Why would they want you in high-sec? That doesn't even make sense to me, at least assuming they don't want to get rid of a few nodes and shrink the universe.

It's not a theme park yet, but keeping an eye on that myself.

If you get rid of l4 missions from high sec there would be no missions worth doing there. L4s should stay in high-sec, there are people in high-sec that won't PvP as they play a PvE game. Personally I don't care what they make as long as I can make a living else where. Although I did used to like looting alloys, but I guess that change kept the miners happy.
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#306 - 2013-05-15 19:08:39 UTC
Six Six Six wrote:

If you get rid of l4 missions from high sec there would be no missions worth doing there.


Yes, there would still be the missions intended for new players. And new players are the target audience of hisec.

.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#307 - 2013-05-15 19:49:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Andski
Six Six Six wrote:
Why would they want you in high-sec? That doesn't even make sense to me, at least assuming they don't want to get rid of a few nodes and shrink the universe.

It's not a theme park yet, but keeping an eye on that myself.

If you get rid of l4 missions from high sec there would be no missions worth doing there. L4s should stay in high-sec, there are people in high-sec that won't PvP as they play a PvE game. Personally I don't care what they make as long as I can make a living else where. Although I did used to like looting alloys, but I guess that change kept the miners happy.


When you're much better off making your living with a hisec alt than doing the same in nullsec, things are undeniably broken

CCP just prefers to ignore that

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Six Six Six
Doomheim
#308 - 2013-05-15 20:02:53 UTC
Roime wrote:
Six Six Six wrote:

If you get rid of l4 missions from high sec there would be no missions worth doing there.


Yes, there would still be the missions intended for new players. And new players are the target audience of hisec.




Don't like the idea of high-sec just being for new people, too artificial.

If that was the case they would have to reduce the number of high-sec systems and in the process lose most of the PvE players.
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#309 - 2013-05-15 20:38:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Destiny Corrupted
Six Six Six wrote:
Why would they want you in high-sec? That doesn't even make sense to me, at least assuming they don't want to get rid of a few nodes and shrink the universe.

It's not a theme park yet, but keeping an eye on that myself.

If you get rid of l4 missions from high sec there would be no missions worth doing there. L4s should stay in high-sec, there are people in high-sec that won't PvP as they play a PvE game. Personally I don't care what they make as long as I can make a living else where. Although I did used to like looting alloys, but I guess that change kept the miners happy.

You have to remember that when these people are grinding risk-free ISK day and night, your own purchasing power falls proportionally. One of the biggest jumps in PLEX prices occurred during the first few months of incursions. In fact, the release of incursions might have marked the only inflationary period in EVE. But even without inflation, the purchasing power parity disparity still exists between the high-seccers and other players. They have no barriers to entry, and much smaller risk. It's ridiculous.

And that's why I prefer to stay in empire and go after these people via wars. The money is seriously better than null anomalies sometimes, and I get the added benefit of collecting precious tears when their mission boats asplode.

But then CCP notices their mewling and caves in to their demands yet again, and we get changes like these.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Six Six Six
Doomheim
#310 - 2013-05-15 21:13:22 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Six Six Six wrote:
Why would they want you in high-sec? That doesn't even make sense to me, at least assuming they don't want to get rid of a few nodes and shrink the universe.

It's not a theme park yet, but keeping an eye on that myself.

If you get rid of l4 missions from high sec there would be no missions worth doing there. L4s should stay in high-sec, there are people in high-sec that won't PvP as they play a PvE game. Personally I don't care what they make as long as I can make a living else where. Although I did used to like looting alloys, but I guess that change kept the miners happy.

You have to remember that when these people are grinding risk-free ISK day and night, your own purchasing power falls proportionally. One of the biggest jumps in PLEX prices occurred during the first few months of incursions. In fact, the release of incursions might have marked the only inflationary period in EVE. But even without inflation, the purchasing power parity disparity still exists between the high-seccers and other players. They have no barriers to entry, and much smaller risk. It's ridiculous.

And that's why I prefer to stay in empire and go after these people via wars. The money is seriously better than null anomalies sometimes, and I get the added benefit of collecting precious tears when their mission boats asplode.

But then CCP notices their mewling and caves in to their demands yet again, and we get changes like these.




It's always going to be difficult mixing PvP and PvE, I've never seen it done successfully yet.

If you become too successful at something it gets noticed.

Think part of the problem is some new players don't want to be in NPC corps as they're used to other MMOs were they just go and join a guild and start to make friends. I've always looked at it as when you leave the NPC corp you're agreeing to participate in PvP via war-decs. However at least some of these new players that left the NPC corp end up complaining that the corp has been war-dec'd and they're left sat in a station not willing to come out.

So CCP has a new customer sat in a station that's not actually playing the game, the likely result is that customer won't stay. Difficult position for CCP, they're having to do a balancing act all the time to try and keep people.

There must be middle ground that's acceptable to both PvPers and PvEers, it's like a marriage at some point you have to compromise or get a divorce.
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#311 - 2013-05-15 21:36:03 UTC
A rational player will see that starting his own corporation is dangerous when he is inexperienced, and will leave and do something else, like joining someone else's corporation.

An irrational player will stomp his feet and quit the game.

How much does CCP need to cater to the stompers to actually make it worthwhile? If they need to go all the way and give them their absolute desires while giving us none, then this game's basic premise is fundamentally flawed to begin with; it shouldn't exist.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
EI Digin
irc.zulusquad.org
#312 - 2013-05-15 21:58:20 UTC
So, how many new players have quit because the community they start in is totally selfish and completely unhelpful, and because they need at least 3 months of skill and isk grinding in order to compete at a low level with people who grind their eyeballs out for "fun"?

Way more than the amount of people who would leave their group of friends because another group out there is literally bored out of their mind and has nothing better to do is trying to get you to quit the game for no reason whatsoever.
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#313 - 2013-05-15 22:13:18 UTC
If you want to retain the majority of new players then obviously this game can't be a "cold, harsh universe," and it sure as hell can't have absolute pvp. CCP set out to make a niche game that is/does exactly those things, so at what point do we stop and say "gee guys, this is quickly becoming something we didn't set out to do"?

I mean, if they want a WoW in space, then they should just go and make a WoW in space; it's not like it would be difficult for them to do so.

Or are we just saying that there's no room for a game like EVE in today's gaming market? Or are people simply willing to let go of this game's original premise entirely in order to ensure higher growth? Do we have our priorities straight if that's the case? Do we necessarily need EVE and CCP to become huge? Would that necessarily benefit us as players, and CCP employees as developers?

I feel like I'm going off-topic, but those are questions I've wanted answers to for many years now.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Six Six Six
Doomheim
#314 - 2013-05-15 22:30:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Six Six Six
EI Digin wrote:
So, how many new players have quit because the community they start in is totally selfish and completely unhelpful,.

You could be talking about several MMOs. Actually part of the community can and is helpful. NPC corps chat can be helpful but some NPC corps can be a bit on the quite side. So if you don't get an answer there try the help channel. But of course it also depends on how someone asks.


EI Digin wrote:
and because they need at least 3 months of skill and isk grinding in order to compete at a low level with people who grind their eyeballs out for "fun"?
.

Yeah, is kind of slow to skill up on, it's designed that way. When you say compete, how are you trying to compete? Does it matter how much isk someone has as long as you can do what you want to do (skills trained permitting)?



EI Digin wrote:
Way more than the amount of people who would leave their group of friends because another group out there is literally bored out of their mind and has nothing better to do is trying to get you to quit the game for no reason whatsoever.

People leave for all sorts of reasons and quite a few come back again too. There are people that will try to give you a hard time but strangely enough they actually add something to EVE as long as they don't take things too far of course.
QuakeGod
Empire Manufacturing
#315 - 2013-05-15 22:32:13 UTC
Sorry, but CCP will never make EVE into a PVP everywhere 24/7 no-holds barred slaughterfest, no matter how many of you nullsec elitist's wish it was that way.

I just love the "elite" players who cry about high sec players being able to make a decent living. Your emo tears of rage sustain me, my cup runneth over.

This is a sandbox game, catering to multiple styles of play. Deal with it.
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#316 - 2013-05-15 22:56:25 UTC
QuakeGod wrote:
Sorry, but CCP will never make EVE into a PVP everywhere 24/7 no-holds barred slaughterfest, no matter how many of you nullsec elitist's wish it was that way.

Except that's exactly what it was many many years ago.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Six Six Six
Doomheim
#317 - 2013-05-15 22:59:19 UTC
QuakeGod wrote:
Sorry, but CCP will never make EVE into a PVP everywhere 24/7 no-holds barred slaughterfest, no matter how many of you nullsec elitist's wish it was that way.

I just love the "elite" players who cry about high sec players being able to make a decent living. Your emo tears of rage sustain me, my cup runneth over.

This is a sandbox game, catering to multiple styles of play. Deal with it.



With that kind of attitude I can understand why they want to dive bomb you.


Not so sure they're worried about you making a decent living, seems to me it's more like they're not able to make a decent living on the same scale as you can.


Well I wouldn't call this a sandbox game, I'd call it sandboxish not even sure there are any true sandbox games left. If you're doing level 4 missions in high-sec then you're actually doing part of the content that makes it sandboxish.
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#318 - 2013-05-15 23:09:46 UTC
All these people who want to turn EVE into a single-player money-grind experience...I don't get it. There's a perfectly-good single-player game series called X3 out there that is exactly what they're looking for. Why are they coming to EVE and trying to turn it into a whole new game, when there are products on the market that already cater to their wants?

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#319 - 2013-05-15 23:13:38 UTC
QuakeGod wrote:
Sorry, but CCP will never make EVE into a PVP everywhere 24/7 no-holds barred slaughterfest, no matter how many of you nullsec elitist's wish it was that way.

I just love the "elite" players who cry about high sec players being able to make a decent living. Your emo tears of rage sustain me, my cup runneth over.

This is a sandbox game, catering to multiple styles of play. Deal with it.


Nobody is saying you shouldn't make a decent living, but when it's competitive with what you can make in more dangerous parts of the game that actually require effort and thought put into your gameplay, if not dwarfing it entirely, it is completely broken and must be nerfed to the ground in order to have a proper, balanced game.

I understand, you abhor thought and you just want instant gratification, but that's not what EVE is about.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#320 - 2013-05-15 23:15:23 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
All these people who want to turn EVE into a single-player money-grind experience...I don't get it. There's a perfectly-good single-player game series called X3 out there that is exactly what they're looking for. Why are they coming to EVE and trying to turn it into a whole new game, when there are products on the market that already cater to their wants?


BUT BUT MY PLAYSTYLE

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar