EVE General Discussion

I usually don't like the comparison to Hello Kitty Online, but seriously what do you want from this game? A themepark MMO where all is nice and sweet? You are entitled your own opinion, of course, but do not try to force that on everyone else.

This game was branded as a harsh environment where losses ment something. Don't change that.

yes, the whole thread looks like people want risk-free pvp.

Well if you had read other threads recently, you might have realised I don't like theme parks, not much into MMO company generated content either. If this game became a theme park I wouldn't be playing it. Reduction in clone costs doesn't worry me at all in respect to theme parks as I know that has nothing to do with it. What I'd be more worried about, is the side games I've heard about, although I've not heard that much about them yet.

No, we, want to make the choice of how much we risk. Right now I am forced to risk a 32 million ISK clone. I don't get a choice.

choices you have:
- security of system you are in (high/low/WH/0.0)
- ship you are in
- fitting of your ship
- purpose of your ship/fitting
- your actions (past and future)

should i continue?

I think learning implants should go, they should have gone when the learning skills went. I'd rather people invest that isk saved on combat implants if they want a slight edge. At least that way you can fly what you can afford to lose, without having to consider a loss in training time when compared to PvEers. It will also mean you won't have to keep jumping back to training clones.

I don't know if it needs to be, newer players will always be disadvantaged until they reach a reasonable amount of sp. New players can get around the isk problem with PLEX, but not everyone has the means to do that. If a new player goes up against a vet in a 1 to 1 the vet should win. But new players will more likely engage in group PvP at least until they feel able to solo.

There is no way to balance, it never has been balanced as far back in EVE as I can remember. It's one universe full of vets, new players and those in between. If you really want balance, then the whole game would need redesigning and I doubt any serious EVE players would want that.


Edit: The other thing about lowering the costs of PvP (lower clone prices and removal of learning implants) means that people will be able to afford to experiment sooner with PvP and exploration into hostile territories. Just making PvP more affordable is not turning it into a theme park.

Have you ever had the shakes before a batlle?

Ever thought of why?

If they're the two options, then it's very apparent that the current game mechanic is broken.



And how exactly does raising the price of a clone actually level the playing field? It just means the longer you play eve, the longer you have to grind to get back into a fight. There's no level playing field when you're actually fighting so I suspect thats not the case.

The only reason for a clone that I can sensibly see is to prevent death cloning everywhere.

I think the solution to this is to have an alt. Could even be on the same account, unless there is some need to have 100M SP and still need to train more.


It seems like the most logical solution given some thought. While it's nice to have a main that can fly, shoot, and tank almost everything, once you get to the realm of 50M+ SP, it occurs to you that "he who has the most SP wins" is a concept that is borrowed from "leveling" of other MMOS.

This is what makes this game unique. A lot of new players come in and complain they can't "beat the 50M+ SP vets". But the vets who are in the know, usually from the experience of thinking they needed more SP to win and finding out the hard way that this is not the case, will tell the noob that specialization of the SP is what matters more than total SP.

In practice, this concept works. I too made the mistake of thinking that more SP is better, but while I can fly just about everything up to BS, I can only fly one ship at a time and putting one each of every weapon on an omni-tanked ship is going to be an exercise in comedy at best.


A long time ago I made a same-account alt to test the new (then) character creator and perhaps interest my GF in the game. Once I did that, I simply left the alt alone, but found that some of the advice about specialization I have seen in these forums looked good. So I specifically went about putting some training time into that alt for the use of Rifters (minmatar) with small missiles and guns and speed. I have not decided on shield or armor Rifters yet - but so far I am very impressed at how much damage this alt can do with a rifter sporting missiles and small projectiles.

And we are talking only about 5M SP here.

As much as we love to hate them, the Goons are good at helping noobs be effective with proper guidance regarding SP and they deserve credit. Look to their doctrines, which inspired my tests, for further information.

So overall, the "He who has the most SP" thing is antithetical to the SP system of Eve. Yes it's nice to have a main that can just about do everything as the "goto guy", but I find it satisfying that I have an alt that I can pop into a Rifter for cheap (clones are cheap and I can supply this alt with a million Rifters with T2 weapons) fun.

So where we have seen alts for scanning, scouting, industry, and markets, I recommend that an alt be specified for a specific role regarding a certain ship. With Rifters, per my example, there are many fits for missions and a host of "pirate fits" so I would say that you decide what you will do with the alt and then train about the best fit you can find for that role. My experience has shown me that you can start being effective at around 5M SP and that's practically nothing.

It's a lot better than spending 3-4 years carebearing and hoarding ISK waiting to "have at least 50M SP before I can do anything" and then being too bored to carry on after all that.



One of the reasons why people go off thinking they need 10s of millions of SP is due to the "requirements of nullsec". But let's think about this. What kind of corp or alliance demands such players who can fly and fit almost anything? Such would be the corp/alliance that will tell you what to fly and what to fit. There is much debate to the effectiveness of such doctrines, whether this is success or merely micro-management (with each failure, comes the need for ... more micromanagement like "if only everybody had Tactical Shield Manipulation to lvl 5 we would have not lost that BC in our last supercap hot drop on that small gang").

So we should think long and hard about the mindset surrounding SP and those who feel a need to require a certain level of SP from recruits. While I can blame leveling concepts from other MMOs, there's a lot of blame to be passed around to players and corp/alliance heads or recruiters who should know better.