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EVE New Citizens Q&A

 
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Put an end to the exploitation and scamming against new players... Grow your customer base

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ZAKURELL0 LINDA
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#101 - 2013-05-15 03:36:24 UTC
Haedonism Bot wrote:
New players can also scam older players.

Also, certain conditions, for me, really disqualify an individual from being given any slack in EVE's PvP environment for being a newbie. For example - I killed a guy flying a Hulk who was trying to tell me I should leave him alone because he was a new player. New players don't fly Hulks. New players also don't have 300 million in their wallet to lose to a scammer. CCP already gives new players the only protection against scammers that they will ever need - when you create an account Jita is already on your avoidance list.

+1 for avoiding Jita
but I think CCP implement this setting to minimize TiDi in the 1st place......

RIP Iron Lady
Arcelian
0nus
#102 - 2013-05-15 12:18:26 UTC
I think most of us can agree that an addition to the tutorial informing new players of scamming isn't a bad idea. I for one don't think it's necessary to have to go out of game to learn about the hazards of a game. I don't think anyone should have to.

I do think Jita is just, gross...local is the scam channel. It's just taken to a whole new level, it must be a profitable venture, because it never stops. I know playing tricks with the UI to separate players from their money is allowed and encouraged by CCP, but I'll be damned if it presents a good image.
Minmatar Citizen160812
The LGBT Last Supper
#103 - 2013-05-15 12:57:00 UTC
Arcelian wrote:

tutorial informing new players of scamming


It would be the longest most boring tutorial ever not to mention scams only work on the greedy, drunk or naturally stupid people. Those types just click through anything that will give bacon after they click enough times. I'd love to see them add a tutorial on margin trade scams. Roll
Arcelian
0nus
#104 - 2013-05-15 13:26:18 UTC
Minmatar Citizen160812 wrote:
Arcelian wrote:

tutorial informing new players of scamming


It would be the longest most boring tutorial ever not to mention scams only work on the greedy, drunk or naturally stupid people. Those types just click through anything that will give bacon after they click enough times. I'd love to see them add a tutorial on margin trade scams. Roll



Anything would be better than what's currently in place, nothing.

And yes, as in all things where the human element is involved, stupid is a safe bet.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#105 - 2013-05-15 13:43:56 UTC
If the OP wants a scam-free environment, he should move to 0.0

Offhand I cant even remember hearing about a scam in 0.0.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Minmatar Citizen160812
The LGBT Last Supper
#106 - 2013-05-15 13:45:06 UTC
Arcelian wrote:
Minmatar Citizen160812 wrote:
Arcelian wrote:

tutorial informing new players of scamming


It would be the longest most boring tutorial ever not to mention scams only work on the greedy, drunk or naturally stupid people. Those types just click through anything that will give bacon after they click enough times. I'd love to see them add a tutorial on margin trade scams. Roll



Anything would be better than what's currently in place, nothing.

And yes, as in all things where the human element is involved, stupid is a safe bet.


I googled EVE scams. Here is what I found in under 10 seconds.

http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Scams_in_Eve

Don't tell me it's out-of-game the tutorials direct you to the browser constantly if I remember correctly.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#107 - 2013-05-15 14:07:17 UTC
Arcelian wrote:
I think most of us can agree that an addition to the tutorial informing new players of scamming isn't a bad idea. I for one don't think it's necessary to have to go out of game to learn about the hazards of a game. I don't think anyone should have to.

I do think Jita is just, gross...local is the scam channel. It's just taken to a whole new level, it must be a profitable venture, because it never stops. I know playing tricks with the UI to separate players from their money is allowed and encouraged by CCP, but I'll be damned if it presents a good image.


A tutorial on scamming would be wasted, like most non PvE things in Eve it's a lesson that can't be taught by the NPE, but one that must be learned from experience. CCP deliberately don't produce a manual on game mechanics, they leave it to us to discover and document them for others, and TBH it's actually a fairly successful way of doing it, it weeds out the lazy and stupid, and rewards those who actually put some effort into the game rather than relying on the spoonfed dross that so many other games provide.

TL;DR You don't get given cookies in this game, it's up to you to obtain your cookies by any means possible, and then protect them from everyone else who is trying to obtain them by any means possible.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Arcelian
0nus
#108 - 2013-05-15 14:35:47 UTC
Minmatar Citizen160812 wrote:
Arcelian wrote:
Minmatar Citizen160812 wrote:
Arcelian wrote:

tutorial informing new players of scamming


It would be the longest most boring tutorial ever not to mention scams only work on the greedy, drunk or naturally stupid people. Those types just click through anything that will give bacon after they click enough times. I'd love to see them add a tutorial on margin trade scams. Roll



Anything would be better than what's currently in place, nothing.

And yes, as in all things where the human element is involved, stupid is a safe bet.


I googled EVE scams. Here is what I found in under 10 seconds.

http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Scams_in_Eve

Don't tell me it's out-of-game the tutorials direct you to the browser constantly if I remember correctly.


I don't think you remember correctly, but I'm not going to start the tutorial to confirm that, either.

I'm really certain too, that if I google "Eve Scams" I'll get results. But what had the newbie searching google for scams in the first place? There's nothing to tip them off about it, and there is no harm in adding just one page to the tutorial that does.
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#109 - 2013-05-15 14:37:34 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
If the OP wants a scam-free environment, he should move to 0.0

Offhand I cant even remember hearing about a scam in 0.0.


Goons' recruitment scam.
Goons' let us move your stuff for free.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#110 - 2013-05-15 14:38:34 UTC
ZAKURELL0 LINDA wrote:
Haedonism Bot wrote:
New players can also scam older players.

Also, certain conditions, for me, really disqualify an individual from being given any slack in EVE's PvP environment for being a newbie. For example - I killed a guy flying a Hulk who was trying to tell me I should leave him alone because he was a new player. New players don't fly Hulks. New players also don't have 300 million in their wallet to lose to a scammer. CCP already gives new players the only protection against scammers that they will ever need - when you create an account Jita is already on your avoidance list.

+1 for avoiding Jita
but I think CCP implement this setting to minimize TiDi in the 1st place......


As said. Jita is on your avoid list by default.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
Arcelian
0nus
#111 - 2013-05-15 14:46:10 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Arcelian wrote:
I think most of us can agree that an addition to the tutorial informing new players of scamming isn't a bad idea. I for one don't think it's necessary to have to go out of game to learn about the hazards of a game. I don't think anyone should have to.

I do think Jita is just, gross...local is the scam channel. It's just taken to a whole new level, it must be a profitable venture, because it never stops. I know playing tricks with the UI to separate players from their money is allowed and encouraged by CCP, but I'll be damned if it presents a good image.


A tutorial on scamming would be wasted, like most non PvE things in Eve it's a lesson that can't be taught by the NPE, but one that must be learned from experience. CCP deliberately don't produce a manual on game mechanics, they leave it to us to discover and document them for others, and TBH it's actually a fairly successful way of doing it, it weeds out the lazy and stupid, and rewards those who actually put some effort into the game rather than relying on the spoonfed dross that so many other games provide.

TL;DR You don't get given cookies in this game, it's up to you to obtain your cookies by any means possible, and then protect them from everyone else who is trying to obtain them by any means possible.


There's a vast difference between game mechanics, and some idiot playing tricks with the games UI (which 99% of scams are), to make you think you are getting something you are not. I've personally never been a victim of a scam, but there must be many that are, as there are numerous bots spamming Jita local 23/7.

Yes, lots of players are stupid, and don't have the common sense to see through an obvious ploy to separate you from your isk. But instead of going out and losing that isk in PVP(and maybe learning something), they lose it to some bot spamming the same bullshit contract over and over in local chat.

Classy, isn't it?
Friggz
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#112 - 2013-05-15 14:47:37 UTC
Valerian Dardanides wrote:

You can not expect a new player to know all the nuisances of the system even though I completed all the tutorial missions and read hundreds of pages of info about it.


I can't speak for CCP but I personally don't expect new players to never make mistakes, no. I also accept some of those mistakes may involve falling for scams. That's okay. It's part of the game. It isn't the CCP's job to keep you from making mistakes, it's your job to learn from the mistakes you make.

Everyone makes mistakes in EvE. People fall for scams, people lose ships, it's natural. **** happens. If you are going to play EvE you have to get used to the idea that sometimes you will lose. When you do, the correct thing to do is ask yourself what can I do to make sure I never make that same mistake again. Asking someone else to solve your problems for you isn't going to get you very far in EvE.
Jamwara DelCalicoe Ashley
New Eden Tech Support
#113 - 2013-05-15 14:57:54 UTC
Valerian Dardanides wrote:
A suggestion to CCP, not to the many dimwits on this forum with no notion of consumer psychology, customer service, or financial growth: There is a solution that would protect new players without abolishing scams altogether.

Ban trade scam schemes in high-sec so normal players who want to play like decent human beings can do so and new players can learn in a safe environment.This makes sense from a roleplaying perspective because empire space shouldn't be like the Wild West. If concord and empire police summarily blow you up for looting an "owned" wreck in space... Then surely they wouldn't be soft handed with scammers hustling millions. To balance that, increase the sales tax in empire space to reflect the costs of implementing increased security.

For those who want to play as jerks, or who want to experience the full I-like-to-be-screwed experience... There is null sec. Zero tax, no rules.


No; for noobs and vets alike who want to play EvE there is only New Eden. Consider the lesson you learned a tax ... you've paid your dues, you are better prepared to navigate New Eden, period. You can be ganked anywhere you go ... hsec, lsec and null sec alike although your odds of survival vary considerably. I understand your frustration but ... you know, it's your own fault. Welcome to EvE!

Thank me later :D
Arcelian
0nus
#114 - 2013-05-15 15:04:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Arcelian
Friggz wrote:
Valerian Dardanides wrote:

You can not expect a new player to know all the nuisances of the system even though I completed all the tutorial missions and read hundreds of pages of info about it.


I can't speak for CCP but I personally don't expect new players to never make mistakes, no. I also accept some of those mistakes may involve falling for scams. That's okay. It's part of the game. It isn't the CCP's job to keep you from making mistakes, it's your job to learn from the mistakes you make.

Everyone makes mistakes in EvE. People fall for scams, people lose ships, it's natural. **** happens. If you are going to play EvE you have to get used to the idea that sometimes you will lose. When you do, the correct thing to do is ask yourself what can I do to make sure I never make that same mistake again. Asking someone else to solve your problems for you isn't going to get you very far in EvE.


A new player expects that you can get blown up from undocking your ship. A new player can reasonably expect to get murdered if entering a duel. Only a few of them are going to expect that Jita is a bot infested cess-pool. It shouldn't come as a surprise, with as prevalent as it is.

I'm a strong supporter of anything that turns Jita into something that it should be, a trade hub. It would be awesome if local actually had, oh I don't know, legitimate trades. I know this will probably never happen, but anything that creates awareness and makes that spam bot less profitable, is a good thing in my book.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#115 - 2013-05-15 15:10:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Arcelian wrote:

There's a vast difference between game mechanics, and some idiot playing tricks with the games UI (which 99% of scams are), to make you think you are getting something you are not. I've personally never been a victim of a scam, but there must be many that are, as there are numerous bots spamming Jita local 23/7.

Yes, lots of players are stupid, and don't have the common sense to see through an obvious ploy to separate you from your isk. But instead of going out and losing that isk in PVP(and maybe learning something), they lose it to some bot spamming the same bullshit contract over and over in local chat.

Classy, isn't it?


The trade window scam is the only one I can think of that involves tricks with the UI.

I'd actually say that 90% of scams actually rely on stupidity and greed rather than the UI being crap. The margin trading scam is definitely the result of a meeting between game mechanics, creativity and greed, the contract scams rely purely on the mark not paying attention, not reading the contract, or being greedy.

One of the cardinal rules of Eve; if it looks too good to be true then it's a scam, if it doesn't look like a scam, it's a very well disguised scam.
The only more important rule is; don't fly what you can't afford to lose, which incidentally can also be applied to trading by replacing the word fly with trade.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Barlkin
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#116 - 2013-05-15 15:16:13 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Barlkin wrote:

PS. I've been scammed, contract scammed, sucked, I was pissed. Grow a pair and move on.

Same here, you learn from it and move on.

No margin trading scam? You should rectify that immediately, it's an object lesson in how an unregulated marketplace can be abused given a little creativity. I'm sure someone will contact you shortly Pirate


lol no no, those have nearly gotten me, usually takes a few beers before those start looking enticing 😊

Under new management
Haulie Berry
#117 - 2013-05-15 15:22:23 UTC
Quote:
One of the cardinal rules of Eve; if it looks too good to be true then it's a scam, if it doesn't look like a scam, it's a very well disguised scam.


There are exceptions to this rule, and there is good money to be made in being able to spot those exceptions - but don't try it unless you know what you're doing, and there's an important detail: Those exceptions are never advertised. You have to go find them.
Jamwara DelCalicoe Ashley
New Eden Tech Support
#118 - 2013-05-15 15:29:33 UTC
J'Poll wrote:
Haedonism Bot wrote:
CCP already gives new players the only protection against scammers that they will ever need - when you create an account Jita is already on your avoidance list.


Best argument ever....+1


Why is that the best argument ever? I'm not arguing with your argument or trying to troll ya .. genuinely curious as a nooob

Thank me later :D
Arcelian
0nus
#119 - 2013-05-15 15:30:13 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Arcelian wrote:

There's a vast difference between game mechanics, and some idiot playing tricks with the games UI (which 99% of scams are), to make you think you are getting something you are not. I've personally never been a victim of a scam, but there must be many that are, as there are numerous bots spamming Jita local 23/7.

Yes, lots of players are stupid, and don't have the common sense to see through an obvious ploy to separate you from your isk. But instead of going out and losing that isk in PVP(and maybe learning something), they lose it to some bot spamming the same bullshit contract over and over in local chat.

Classy, isn't it?


The trade window scam is the only one I can think of that involves tricks with the UI.

I'd actually say that 90% of scams actually rely on stupidity and greed rather than the UI being crap. The margin trading scam is definitely the result of a meeting of game mechanics, creativity and greed, the contract scams rely purely on the mark not paying attention, not reading the contract, or being greedy.

One of the cardinal rules of Eve; if it looks too good to be true then it's a scam, if it doesn't look like a scam, it's a very well disguised scam.
The only more important rule is; don't fly what you can't afford to lose, which incidentally can also be applied to trading by replacing the word fly with trade.


You'd think a cardinal rule would be listed somewhere in the tutorial.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#120 - 2013-05-15 15:37:55 UTC
Arcelian wrote:

You'd think a cardinal rule would be listed somewhere in the tutorial.

That's what makes Eve different, the rules aren't published, they are learnt through experience, and part of that experience is learning when to break the rules.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack