EVE General Discussion

Well.... this is actually a good point. If you have an expensive clone then you might not want to always PVP with it. Lots of fleet fights are so big that the FC doesn't even know everyone in their fleet, let alone how many skill points they have or which implants or how much money they have in their wallets.

Saving an individual's expensive clone just might not be the biggest goal of that fleet. In fact, depending on orders, winning the fight might not even be the biggest goal of that fleet.

and yes, some FC's are beyond bad. I'm not naming names but I think I've flown with the best AND the worst FC's in nullsec. One of them, in particular, had a bad habit of panicking and running away during a fight, leaving his entire fleet twisting in the wind with no orders and sometimes no idea that he even ran away. Another I know of got a 100 man battleship fleet wiped out in about 5 minutes and was so upset by what was happening that he literally turned off his computer and left us all to die....

so yeah... some FC's could do better.

That said, the people who bitterly complain about FC's are often the same ones who bitterly complain about bubblers not being perfect..... they're the very people who probably don't have the balls to sit in the FC's chair or to fly a bubbler.

I'm not saying the person I quoted is one of those but his comment does point to general pattern of behaviour I see:

Those who can, do... Those who cannot, complain.

I support cheaper or free clones.

1. It'll funnel that money into ships and mods helping the economy
2. More ppl will use low-grade implants as an acceptable pod risk

When ppl buy a 100m clone, that money doesn't go to any manufacturer or miner, it simply leaves the game, and also makes it so ppl have to do things they don't feel like doing in order to pvp.

Pvp should always be encouraged and subsidized, you want people to lose MORE ships, not less, that's what creates the ballet of mining, manufacturing, marketing, transporting, etc that is the world of EvE.

If ppl are spending their loot on clones instead of ships, that's bad. That takes money out of the hands of miners, manufacturers, mission runners, transporters, salesmen, etc etc.

Get money into the hands of the people and let them SPEND IT. More destruction = more creation.

Wrong, and besides, you used your time to make isk. Why can't they use their time to do PVP? Why must they be punished for having more SP?
That's a question none of you supporters have answered.

Character development is a long term game that is part of Eve. Some people choose train everything on one character. That has great benefits in terms of versatility, logistics, and time spent moving between characters. The only drawback that style has is really clone costs.

Other people have played the game for years and used all three characters on their accounts. They had to train basic skills on all three chars, and have a much trickier logistics problem to deal with. The benefit to this type of account is that you can keep your combat characters in hot spots and leave the farmers in their mines or fields or whatever.

Both strategies are good, they each have advantages and disadvantages. I think option #1 is a bit more popular because it is simpler and the main drawback is clone cost. Which has been significantly reduced over the years by inflation. In fact I wonder if the rate of inflation was accounted for when they choose a slightly accelerating curve for those costs.

At any rate if the clone cost drawback is removed then the game has been simplified. Another option for strategy and implementation has been lost. I like the complicated long game, it is part of what makes Eve interesting.

And for people like myself who maintain separate chars and come to these threads to enjoy the tears it would be very unfair if clone costs were reduced. I might have to stop playing Eve and go to highsec and cancl my alt subs, yeah I would throw a batshit crazy hissy fit and invite all the other people who were in the same boat, we would whine and cry and complain until we got something that we want.

Or maybe not. I guess I would just keep playing.

Posting to confirm that lots of skill points ensure a considerable increase from scamming revenue.


I guess that kind of explains the ignorance of your post.

No one is being punished. There are advantages and disadvantages to having 1 main character.

You only have to train core once and you don't have to move items between chars or log out and then log back in. You do have to pay clone costs for SP's that are not entirely used in a specific fight.

But even those unused skill points have an impact. They create uncertainty and allow greater flexibility when choosing a ship and weapons.

The 30 million usable SP's per ship is kind of an illusion that way. Take a ship that has no turret bonus bonus like the Myrmidon, a 100 million SP char can dock up and come back out w t2 pulse lasers or t2 artillery if the situation calls for it, that flexibility is an advantage. Those SP's are valuable even if they are not currently in use and they must be accounted for in order that the game have coherency and balance.

The 50mil for a high end clone is actually a great value.

What the large collidable said.

A 2003 char who makes isk hauling and trading and makes bazillionz is all well and good but thats not everyone, and those that pvp spend A LOT on ships and clones in comparison and definitely do not all have their own isk fountain alt.

Why not just force a % of SP to be lost regardless of the clone, because, you know, they can afford it? no you cant because thats completely stupid.

Taxing the rich more because they are rich means they will just find ways round it, look at the states! :P

Boy, that Mining Barge 5 sure does help my Taranis hit harder!


We're not talking about clone upgrade costs; we're talking about clone replacement costs.

Some people are too busy fighting for your ability to farm anomalies to grind ISK for the privilege of losing money to NPCs during player-versus-player combat. Some of them lose multiple pods per day. Are you willing to cover those costs yourself?

Skill up a small ship pilot to 30 million points and leave him there. He will always be there sitting in a hanger in the right ship ready to go. Its not that complicated.

The arguments to do away with clone costs all come down to "Its irritating switching chars and I don't want to retrain core and I don't like it."

I personally don't actually like grinding ISK, I'm not asking that ISK be removed as a game dynamic. Its part of the game and the "work" part of getting ISK is part of what makes combat exciting and fun. To diminish the potential for loss in any way would change Eve. Perhaps my hands wouldn't shake and I wouldn't experience the great feelings of victory or success if it is made easier.

Maintaining the pain of loss in a game is perhaps CCP's greatest achievement. I like playing the game their way. Making combat cheaper so that there is more of it would make the experience of Eve combat cheaper. No reason for that.

When you have a real job, earning real money, with a real boss breathing down your neck, and maybe even a family, come back and comment.