Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Listen guys, I understand that some of you were really looking forward to being able to do 1100 DPS at 200km, but there's no way in the real world that the CNR was ever going to be allowed to be that good - and if by some freak of persuasion or oversight it did, then it would pretty soon get nerfed.

Some of you were acting like it was a done deal and you were given a firm promise of that level of performance. You weren't. Get over it.

The New CNR will be better than the current CNR. If you don't believe me, believe the market; prices are up.

Is there something wrong with that necessarily?

T1 < Navy < T2 < Pirate

Isn't this how it's been in the past?

Question is - is the CNR measurably better than the T1 Raven or Typhoon? If not adjustments should be made (on both sides of that equation).

In PVE: I would hope so, golems are expensive as ****.
In PVP: You mean other than the Raven having a better tank, more range, more spare mids and a better damage application?

Perhaps you are right. But in my eyes the Golem needs torpedoes to be really effective. My problem is the range of a torpedo. I do not salvage every mission. I often fly against Serpentis / Gurista. Looting from this NPC is waste of time. I need the tractor beam to loot some (far away from all) BS zu refine this loot and build my missiles. I am a strong Cruise Missile user. I do not like torps because of the range. But one Defender and my calculated CM launchers on a Golem would fire like a normal Tech I Raven.

You see? Golem is not needed because I do not loot / salvage very often. The range of a torp-golem is not enough for me. I love the range of the CM. I want to decide to kill at 92km or 24km to use the tractor. But a CM-Golem is just LOL.
Best solution was ever a CM-CNR with one tractor. But this will be changed soon. If I fly the new CNR with 7 launcher and one tractor like I have ever done; this new ship would be horrible bad.

http://failheap-challenge.com/showthread.php?11380-Odyssey-Changes-Rebalanced-Navy-Cruisers-T1-Cruisers-(and-EFT-files)

Yes, please, all we want optimal/tracking bonus for navy domi drones, not turret bonus.

The CNR will do 11% more raw DPS with Cruise Missiles after Odyssey.

To try and argue my point again:

-> If you think the CNR is bad; you're terrible
- no point in arguing it is / will be bad; obviously it will get better after changes, problem is not in absolute performance of new CNR, problems are following:

1) identical bonuses to Golem:
- there are reasonably few battleships based on missiles, why make two of them virtually identical?
- making it 'better phoon' and 'worse golem' is imo simply lazy move, it could be made much more interesting ship by giving it advantage and disadvantage(s) compared to other ships in its class
- if you can sit in golem, there is no reason whatsoever to sit into CNR; currently these two ships have strengths and weaknesses and outperform each other in different scenarios - that is good design; after change CNR will simply be inferior in every aspect in every scenario - that is bad design

2) relative decrease in performance compared to Golem, SNI, new Raven, new Phoon:
- again, not problem by itself - it still outperforms regular Raven and Phoon (as it should considering it is navy ship)
- however it makes CNR boring - it is basically cheap man's golem - not good role for a ship;
- also its performance vs SNI (which also tends to be cheaper) is dubious making point of using it in PvE and PvP dubious in itself - perhaps it can be used as torp platform as SNI as cruise, but not so sure about it, especially due to fitting problems of torps on it

-> How should the Golem be differentiated from the CNR?
let's assume it should be differentiated from Golem, so problem here is how:

few ideas:
- a) give it slight damage increase; needless to say, 8 bonused launchers are probably regarded as overkill by devs, so drop it to 7 launchers and give it slight bonus to dps, let's say 5% to damage: this will put its effective dps to 8.75, bit under 10% over golem (that shouldn't be overkill considering all other stuff golem has) and give it bit more alpha, perhaps making it more interesting PvP (and I doubt effect will break the game); as a tradeoff drop its damage application bonus
-> this will pretty much leave it in role it is in now, not bad considering it has its place now
- b) make it real attack battleship:
- up its mobility and lower its sig
option I:
- drop its range bonus, give it explosion velocity bonus (so it has both velocity and radius bonuses)
-> now we have something new and interesting, battleship capable of scary damage application with cruises and torps; I still doubt it will hit cruisers and frigs well (at least unless they are webbed and painted) so it won't really break anything
option II:
- trade damage application for missile flight time (so it has double range bonuses)
-> idea here is to give it ability to shoot torps really far, giving it potential for scary damage output on medium range [keep in mind its damage will still be at raven level and below current CNR level torp-wise, so it is not THAT scary]; however it trades for it with crappy damage application of torps
option III:
- drop it to 6 launchers, trade range for damage (7.5% per level, perhaps 7%) leave it with two utility highs
- up its fitting so it can actually fit neuts in highs
-> idea here is to make it more attack

Why comparing CNR to Golem if Golem will be changed, like all marauders, maybe even with totally different bonuses/roles.
CCP have the long term plan and they know what they doing. Just stop posting nonsens ffs...

The Golem will soon be exactly like the new CNR.. it will have 8 launchers (4x2) and you will have the space for two tractors (!). It just gets more tank, and more damage application on top of it. The Golem is just plain better. There isn't a choice anymore...

Yeah, defenders might hurt a little, but seriously, it's barely noticable.