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Clone costs and old vets

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Six Six Six
Doomheim
#41 - 2013-05-14 23:28:42 UTC
Enris Athonille wrote:
Ok for the sake of the argument for the bitter vet, why not have discount clones at the bitter vet starbase? He spend a lot of time building up a character so he should be rewarded for his dedication to the game.




Why bother, if the change effects everyone then it's not a problem even for future bitter vets.
Sakura Nihil
Faded Light
#42 - 2013-05-15 00:22:55 UTC
Chimiera wrote:
Clone cost need to be reduced or caped to a level were its not a detriment to pvp.

1) No.
2) HTFU.

Glory

Faded Light is recruiting
Corey Fumimasa
CFM Salvage
#43 - 2013-05-15 01:42:57 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
It's a fair point about implants, but we're not complaining about implants here. If a person chooses to fly a frigate in 0.0 with +4s in his head, that's entirely on his conscience. Paying fifty million for a new clone is absurd though.


Wearing expensive implants is a choice. A decision that carries benefits and liabilities.

Skilling up a PvP character to a point that is difficult to pay for is a choice. A decision that has benefits and liabilities.

If your clones are too expensive then just use the free alpha clone for a while, you will save billions.
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#44 - 2013-05-15 02:00:59 UTC
Corey Fumimasa wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
It's a fair point about implants, but we're not complaining about implants here. If a person chooses to fly a frigate in 0.0 with +4s in his head, that's entirely on his conscience. Paying fifty million for a new clone is absurd though.


Wearing expensive implants is a choice. A decision that carries benefits and liabilities.

Skilling up a PvP character to a point that is difficult to pay for is a choice. A decision that has benefits and liabilities.

If your clones are too expensive then just use the free alpha clone for a while, you will save billions.

Once again, just because you're space-rich, doesn't mean other people are, even if they've been playing for a long time. A player shouldn't be punished for having lots of skill points. I'm not saying he should be rewarded either, just that he shouldn't be punished.

For the love of everything nice, why would you force a player who only wants to pvp into grinding extra cash to pay NPCs for the privilege? They make up such a tiny percentage of the population as it is already, so why are you so adamant on not stopping to drive them away entirely? Can you simply not stomach the idea of pvp in EVE?

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Adunh Slavy
#45 - 2013-05-15 02:10:47 UTC
Clone cost should be about 1 mil tops.

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt
Fredfredbug4
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#46 - 2013-05-15 02:11:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Fredfredbug4
I think clone costs scale pretty well. As your SP increases, it should get easier for you to make money.

By the time you hit 100 mil SP, you should have more than enough money to pod yourself several times a day for a year.

Watch_ Fred Fred Frederation_ and stop [u]cryptozoologist[/u]! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it!
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#47 - 2013-05-15 02:14:20 UTC
Fredfredbug4 wrote:
I think clone costs scale pretty well. As your SP increases, it should get easier for you to make money.

By the time you hit 100 mil SP, you should have more than enough money to pod yourself several times a day for a year.

You're operating on a lot of assumptions there, chief.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Corey Fumimasa
CFM Salvage
#48 - 2013-05-15 02:17:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Corey Fumimasa
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Corey Fumimasa wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
It's a fair point about implants, but we're not complaining about implants here. If a person chooses to fly a frigate in 0.0 with +4s in his head, that's entirely on his conscience. Paying fifty million for a new clone is absurd though.


Wearing expensive implants is a choice. A decision that carries benefits and liabilities.

Skilling up a PvP character to a point that is difficult to pay for is a choice. A decision that has benefits and liabilities.

If your clones are too expensive then just use the free alpha clone for a while, you will save billions.

Once again, just because you're space-rich, doesn't mean other people are, even if they've been playing for a long time. A player shouldn't be punished for having lots of skill points. I'm not saying he should be rewarded either, just that he shouldn't be punished.

For the love of everything nice, why would you force a player who only wants to pvp into grinding extra cash to pay NPCs for the privilege? They make up such a tiny percentage of the population as it is already, so why are you so adamant on not stopping to drive them away entirely? Can you simply not stomach the idea of pvp in EVE?

For a while I thought that you were an alt of someone who is metagaming this issue. Now I just think that you don't understand.

"Eve pvp will die and no one will dare to fight anymore if clones remain expensive. Subscribers will be lost and the servers will close! oh noes!!!"

I have made many mistakes while playing Eve, and lost a lot of ISK because of them. I have played very conservatively and lost a lot of ISK because of that. Those choices all have benefits and liabilities.

The game is as advertised, to come here whining about how unfair and difficult it is after playing for 100million skill points is just bizarre. What game did you think that you were playing?
lollerwaffle
Perkone
Caldari State
#49 - 2013-05-15 02:23:50 UTC
Agree with this. As it is, my clones currently cost around 30mil, without implants. This means that flying disposable throwaway frigates are out of the picture for me due to the low survivability of those ships for me. SadSadSad

Plus I'm nowhere near as space-rich as most of you seem to be, with my wallet hovering around the 500m-1bil mark on average.

Granted, old players should have more means and more experience to make ISK in game. But for a 'casual' player like me, this means I have to spend additional time in addition to my very busy RL to grind more money to fly more expensive ships so I don't die as easily and thus leave my pod exposed in space for a longer period of time. This means it costs more to replace my losses and thus I should grind more.............

Haven't had a look at the new clone costs on SISI, but from what I'm seeing in this thread, looks like all the low SP guys here are just /jelly Lol

o/
Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#50 - 2013-05-15 02:23:51 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
For the love of everything nice, why would you force a player who only wants to pvp into grinding extra cash to pay NPCs for the privilege?


Exactly. It is a bad mechanic. The point about risk in PvP being necessary is valid but I think risk is already high enough with implant and ship loss costs. And I'm allergic to grinding and refuse to do it.

High clone costs discourage PvP without providing a strong enough benefit.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#51 - 2013-05-15 02:34:20 UTC
Corey Fumimasa wrote:
For a while I thought that you were an alt of someone who is metagaming this issue. Now I just think that you don't understand.

"Eve pvp will die and no one will dare to fight anymore if clones remain expensive. Subscribers will be lost and the servers will close! oh noes!!!"

I have made many mistakes while playing Eve, and lost a lot of ISK because of them. I have played very conservatively and lost a lot of ISK because of that. Those choices all have benefits and liabilities.

The game is as advertised, to come here whining about how unfair and difficult it is after playing for 100million skill points is just bizarre. What game did you think that you were playing?

Kid, you have four credits in debate from the University of Phoenix Online or something? I never said any of those things, so don't make a quote and attribute it to me. It's crass.

How many times do I have to repeat myself that not everyone, even among 100m SP+ pilots, flies big expensive ships into combat? Do you genuinely not understand why having an NPC entity charge someone 45 million iSK for the privilege of having some frigate fun in 0.0 is a bad idea?

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#52 - 2013-05-15 02:39:05 UTC
Fredfredbug4 wrote:
I think clone costs scale pretty well. As your SP increases, it should get easier for you to make money.

By the time you hit 100 mil SP, you should have more than enough money to pod yourself several times a day for a year.

Pure myth. Earning power stops going up after somewhere around 10-15 Million SP. Assuming you invest that SP wisely anyway.
After that, you aren't making more per hour. Because all that extra SP is generalising into multiple options. It means you are somewhat less vulnerable to a nerf of a single source of income because you have generalised and have a back up option.
But a 100 Mil SP character doesn't magically make 500 Mil/hour running an incursion. They make the same 100 Mil/h (Generalised figure allowing for averages, downtime & wait list time often actually drops this) as anyone else including that 10 Mil SP person in fleet.

Anyway, clone costs have been kindly cut by 30% across the board already by CCP, with a promise of a better look at clones in general on the way.
Zeko Rena
ENCOM Industries
#53 - 2013-05-15 02:42:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Zeko Rena
Isn't this one of the few things in EVE that actually makes money vanish, I think we need more things like that, I hope they don't make it so that one day players can produce and sell clones, otherwise we are just printing money forever from rat bounties Pirate

*sigh*

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=235781&find=unread

Just found this, looks like it is being decreased anyway.
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#54 - 2013-05-15 02:47:10 UTC
Zeko Rena wrote:
Isn't this one of the few things in EVE that actually makes money vanish, I think we need more things like that, I hope they don't make it so that one day players can produce and sell clones, otherwise we are just printing money forever from rat bounties Pirate

We're also printing minerals forever from belts and loot refining. The two faucets are in a constant relationship with each other, and both have their respective sinks. Saying that there's too much cash in the world without looking at both sides of the coin is something only an armchair economist would do.

Also in terms of sink efficiency, clone costs would probably rank all the way on the bottom, next to corp creation fees and CSPA charges.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Corey Fumimasa
CFM Salvage
#55 - 2013-05-15 02:48:23 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:

Kid, you have four credits in debate from the University of Phoenix Online or something? I never said any of those things, so don't make a quote and attribute it to me. It's crass.

How many times do I have to repeat myself that not everyone, even among 100m SP+ pilots, flies big expensive ships into combat? Do you genuinely not understand why having an NPC entity charge someone 45 million iSK for the privilege of having some frigate fun in 0.0 is a bad idea?

I don't care if you fight in a frigate or not. I hope that you don't actually.

You and all those like you have made a monumental mistake. You have skilled a combat pilot to a point that is uncomfortable to pay for. That is a weakness and a failure on your part. And now you want it to go away.

If you just want some easy money good fights then start a new char and join R-V-B or Brave Newbies, have all the fights that you want for short money.
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#56 - 2013-05-15 02:50:36 UTC
I have two triple-digit characters active right now, but clone costs don't affect me because I don't lose pods doing what I do. Doesn't mean I'll stop fighting for what makes sense, though.

But it's okay, continue attacking the player instead of the argument. I'm sure that will do wonders for your own.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Vega Umbranox
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#57 - 2013-05-15 03:02:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Vega Umbranox
LHA Tarawa wrote:
So make an alt. Super cheap clone.

No one says you have to keep training your original toon.


not everyone likes having or even playing alts. i HATE alts i would never use one. your suggestion is horrible go home.

there needs to be an option or atleast cut clone costs. its unnecessary imo.
it seems like a huge penalty for something the game encourages (pvp and skilling up)



Some people are loyal to their main character and get attached to the idea of that character. we arent all space sluts and just whore out to 10 alt accounts and still enjoy it.

I NEVER have used an alt in a game other than for market checking etc and i NEVER will. its just how i play and pushing me to change that will only ruin the freedom of an mmo
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#58 - 2013-05-15 03:07:20 UTC
Corey Fumimasa wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:

Kid, you have four credits in debate from the University of Phoenix Online or something? I never said any of those things, so don't make a quote and attribute it to me. It's crass.

How many times do I have to repeat myself that not everyone, even among 100m SP+ pilots, flies big expensive ships into combat? Do you genuinely not understand why having an NPC entity charge someone 45 million iSK for the privilege of having some frigate fun in 0.0 is a bad idea?

I don't care if you fight in a frigate or not. I hope that you don't actually.

You and all those like you have made a monumental mistake. You have skilled a combat pilot to a point that is uncomfortable to pay for. That is a weakness and a failure on your part. And now you want it to go away.

If you just want some easy money good fights then start a new char and join R-V-B or Brave Newbies, have all the fights that you want for short money.


Nah, I'll keep going. Thanks for the concern though. <3 <3 <3 XoXoXo

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Agustice Arterius
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#59 - 2013-05-15 03:11:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Agustice Arterius
The notion that just because somebody has a high SP toon, they will have hoards of money, is ridiculous.

The idea that in order to go back to low cost pvp, you have to create a new alt on your account/buy a new account for it, is absurd.

Maybe these things are fine in other games, but not in EVE. The game is advertised contrary to that.

It would seem CCP half-heartedly agrees, as they play with clone costs on the test server often.


I think taking jump clones in a new direction and being allowed to customize what skills a clone has access to would be a neat idea, could cut down on clone costs as well. Though I haven't fully thought it out.
Vega Umbranox
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#60 - 2013-05-15 03:12:37 UTC
iskflakes wrote:
Clone costs are actually too low. They encourage the meaningless lolcruiser fleets where players get to be mediocre and irrelevant, but pretend that it's OK because they tell themselves "I'm having fun". The people they kill lose nothing, they lose nothing, nothing changes in the game -- totally pointless. If you enjoy that kind of gameplay you can go play call of duty and not have to put up with clone costs at all. EVE should be about consequences, and the idea that you can go and die and suffer none is out of line.

To the OP, you have many options:
1) Stop being poor
2) Sell your character and buy one with fewer skillpoints, and have plenty of money to play with
3) Buy the highest quality clone you can afford, and lose skillpoints until you reach its limits
4) Quit the game

Option 2 is only a temporary fix, because the skillpoints of your new character will go up and you are apparently incapable of making ISK despite it being thrown at your feet at every opportunity.

Options 1, 3 and 4 are long term solutions and are preferable.



lol god u are a tard. not everyone can play 20 hours a day 7 days a week like u and we arent as awesome as u atleast beleive u are. plz go pod yourself till u have 0 sp