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Woot, woot. Now even easier to get out of a war dec.

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Lin Suizei
#261 - 2013-05-15 02:00:13 UTC
Kangaax wrote:
...and if wardecs against highsec pvp corps were to make them disband, that's like... totally the point?


Confirming that spending 50M to force an opponent to spend 2.6M to recreate his corp and unilaterally cancel your wardec is the point of highsec war, and having your opponent reform corp and resume highsec operations with at most a few minutes of delay with 0 risk is a clear victory for the attacker.

Lol I can't delete my forum sig.
GreenSeed
#262 - 2013-05-15 02:01:04 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
GreenSeed wrote:
if a corp got wardecced they just call it a day and drop corp, in the event they decided not to fight. now they can just drop corp and be done with it.

how is that different from before? they still have assets they need to evacuate, and they still have 24 hrs of warning to do so.

how is having to spin ships for 24 hrs, then going back to whatever they were doing is different from not spinning ships for 24 hrs?


is your argument really going to be " well if they don't want to fight, they they must take a 24hr time out", because if it is so, then its really stupid. sorry, i want to be on your side, because i agree that corp hopping sucks, but if they fight is has to be because they want to. not because some overly contrived set of rules forced them to.

Because it used to be that paying for a week of war got us 1 day of war, and now it will get us 0 days of war.

If CCP is going to make leaving corporations instant, then wars should be free. It's only fair.


it would be more fair if declaring a war would root anchored items in space, then people leaving corp would be moot since the damage would still be dealt to the assets.

my whole point is that the talking toupee is getting carried away raging over some inconsequential war mechanic change that simply eases something that will happen anyway.
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#263 - 2013-05-15 02:03:53 UTC
GreenSeed wrote:
it would be more fair if declaring a war would root anchored items in space, then people leaving corp would be moot since the damage would still be dealt to the assets.

my whole point is that the talking toupee is getting carried away raging over some inconsequential war mechanic change that simply eases something that will happen anyway.

The "talking toupee" is one of the few players left who actually cares about the long-term success of this damned shitcock game.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Kangaax
Money in da bank
#264 - 2013-05-15 02:04:33 UTC
Lin Suizei wrote:
Kangaax wrote:
...and if wardecs against highsec pvp corps were to make them disband, that's like... totally the point?


Confirming that spending 50M to force an opponent to spend 2.6M to recreate his corp and unilaterally cancel your wardec is the point of highsec war, and having your opponent reform corp and resume highsec operations with at most a few minutes of delay with 0 risk is a clear victory for the attacker.


Why would you even do pvp in highsec and pretend you're a pvp corp if you're running from your targets? I seriously don't understand Straight
rswfire
#265 - 2013-05-15 02:10:05 UTC
Andski wrote:
Well goddamn by that logic I guess we should also eliminate skill training, ISK and minerals from the game and simply get everything we could possibly want through the push of a button, because whether you train a character for two years and grind up 100b ISK to get a titan or simply push a button and get a titan, the end result is still the same!

Really, your logic is infallible


There's nothing logical about making a person wait 24 hours to leave a corp. It's not realistic. If I fired you, I'd have security escort you out the front door and be done with you. I wouldn't let you sit in your office and ***** and moan to others for 24 hours before I did so.

About Firesworn Nation .|. FB .|. G+ .|. Steam
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#266 - 2013-05-15 02:10:15 UTC
Kangaax wrote:
The alt-corp thing, what would prevent people from deccing it as well?


The fact that they're already at war with it - it's in the alliance.

Kangaax wrote:
I assume there isn't 2000 corps in goons


There also aren't 2000 people in goonswarm who need to do stuff in hisec beyond buying stuff in Jita with an alt and paying to have it hauled to nullsec

Kangaax wrote:
What about the random goon member, that has no alt and is no biggie?


You don't have to be anyone important to get an altcorp in the alliance. You pay a fee, provide a full corp API vCode and it's done.

Kangaax wrote:
Oh, and let's go to the neutral alt topic. What's the difference with this change, when EVERYONE uses neutral hauling alts? I have some doubts about nullsec alliances members getting shot in highsec by war targets, except if they're like, very, very dumb.


If you wardec a large enough alliance you're bound to kill a few random idiots

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#267 - 2013-05-15 02:13:52 UTC
rswfire wrote:
There's nothing logical about making a person wait 24 hours to leave a corp. It's not realistic. If I fired you, I'd have security escort you out the front door and be done with you. I wouldn't let you sit in your office and ***** and moan to others for 24 hours before I did so.


The police responding in 30 seconds or less guaranteed isn't realistic, an area where the police respond in 30 seconds or less not taxing those who operate in that area is not realistic

Surely since you believe in realism you support CONCORD response times being extended significantly or a realistic (say, 60%) tax rate applied to highsec that's impossible to evade by simply paying 200k isk to form a corp?

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#268 - 2013-05-15 02:16:47 UTC
rswfire wrote:
Andski wrote:
Well goddamn by that logic I guess we should also eliminate skill training, ISK and minerals from the game and simply get everything we could possibly want through the push of a button, because whether you train a character for two years and grind up 100b ISK to get a titan or simply push a button and get a titan, the end result is still the same!

Really, your logic is infallible


There's nothing logical about making a person wait 24 hours to leave a corp. It's not realistic. If I fired you, I'd have security escort you out the front door and be done with you. I wouldn't let you sit in your office and ***** and moan to others for 24 hours before I did so.

There's nothing logical about having to wait twenty-four hours to initiate hostilities after declaring war on an entity. If I'm a country and I declare war on you, you're not getting a day to get your **** together; you're getting bombed six milliseconds after I make the press release.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
rswfire
#269 - 2013-05-15 02:18:03 UTC
Andski wrote:
rswfire wrote:
There's nothing logical about making a person wait 24 hours to leave a corp. It's not realistic. If I fired you, I'd have security escort you out the front door and be done with you. I wouldn't let you sit in your office and ***** and moan to others for 24 hours before I did so.


The police responding in 30 seconds or less guaranteed isn't realistic, an area where the police respond in 30 seconds or less not taxing those who operate in that area is not realistic

Surely since you believe in realism you support CONCORD response times being extended significantly or a realistic (say, 60%) tax rate applied to highsec that's impossible to evade by simply paying 200k isk to form a corp?


Yes, realism matters to me.

I can't really comment on Concord response times, but I wouldn't be opposed to changing them.

As for corp creation fees, sure, make them much higher! No complaints.

About Firesworn Nation .|. FB .|. G+ .|. Steam
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#270 - 2013-05-15 02:19:33 UTC
rswfire wrote:
Yes, realism matters to me.

I can't really comment on Concord response times, but I wouldn't be opposed to changing them.

As for corp creation fees, sure, make them much higher! No complaints.

See, you're one of us. You just don't know it yet.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
rswfire
#271 - 2013-05-15 02:19:41 UTC  |  Edited by: rswfire
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
There's nothing logical about having to wait twenty-four hours to initiate hostilities after declaring war on an entity. If I'm a country and I declare war on you, you're not getting a day to get your **** together; you're getting bombed six milliseconds after I make the press release.


I agree with this also, but I understand why it's set up the way it is. First, to prevent exploits as have been explained in this topic. Second, because someone can be wardecced while they're offline due to time zone differences (but this seems like less of an issue to me really). I'd happily advocate it be reduced...perhaps to an hour.

Edit: Maybe four hours, because that's what they change ally timers to. Seems reasonable.

About Firesworn Nation .|. FB .|. G+ .|. Steam
rswfire
#272 - 2013-05-15 02:21:45 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
rswfire wrote:
Yes, realism matters to me.

I can't really comment on Concord response times, but I wouldn't be opposed to changing them.

As for corp creation fees, sure, make them much higher! No complaints.

See, you're one of us. You just don't know it yet.


I'm not, but thank you. I am just someone who has a unique set of opinions, just like you. And I value your opinions. Like I said before, I don't agree with them all, but I still listen to them and consider them and I remain respectful toward you even if I disagree, and it doesn't prevent me from agreeing with you on other things.

About Firesworn Nation .|. FB .|. G+ .|. Steam
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#273 - 2013-05-15 02:41:53 UTC
As a quick aside, anyone notice how all the stuff being changed has to do with defending against pvp attempts? I mean, ally timers decreased to four hours, drop timers becoming instant, insurance not being paid out due to CONCORD, etc etc. How come they're not buffing the stuff that benefits the gankers, warriors, or other belligerents?

If it was give-and-take I'd understand, but it's just take and take and take. Can any of you non-sociopaths objectively name one instance of ganking, wars, or other such activities being buffed? And don't say T3 BCs; that doesn't really count.

Don't just rush to respond to me how this game is "evolving." Think about it for a second. Maybe CCP is actually nerfing pvp in a lot of its forms.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#274 - 2013-05-15 02:46:50 UTC
Kangaax wrote:
Andski wrote:
OfBalance wrote:
Ok so EVE is already dead by that measure then, and this change doesn't do much but add a tiny insult to injury.

Assuming they didn't implement this at all, I'd still be arguing for nerfing empire income streams and buffing what used to be superior risk/rewards in null. If that battle can't be won, then the game is going in the wrong direction (again), but that's the battle and I don't think the change is symboilc of a turning point either way.




I'd say that the effective removal of the primary avenue of PvP in hisec does more than "add insult to injury"


I have a tiny bit of a question for you. When you say "removal of the primary avenue of PvP in highsec" when most people in that discussion agree that the targets that would have fought before would still fight, and people who would have logged off now switch corp, what do you mean exactly?
Because it's not like there is a lot of pew to be lost in that change Straight

Oh, and besides, there's just an idea, but... what about restricting corp hopping exclusively for war-decced corps? That'd solve the "issue" while still removing the hassle of roles dropping


This is a great point. I spent most of my time in EvE high sec war deccing. I usually spent a week to a month scoping out different corps / alliances to ensure that they would fight and not hop. If you just dec the first corp you think might be juicy you wont have anyone to prey on but if you take some time to get intel and use that intel to choose the right corp, the corp hopping thing wont be a problem.

Anyway if you really want decent high sec wars deccing alliances is way more effective and its highly unlikely they'll disband the whole alliance. Regarding neutral haulers, smart people use them, the majority of EvE industrialists are stupid and lazy.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Robus Muvila
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#275 - 2013-05-15 02:53:28 UTC
General Discussion I am disappointed. LHA Tahrwna or whatever it is, is not a particularly noteworthy forums denzien. The only reason he sticks in my mind is the whole concept of dropping corp to avoid wars like it's some almighty secret to win Eve is pretty much all he ever posts about. It's a troll account.

He's made at least 2 threads about it before. I'm seeing good posters being trolled here and it just breaks my heart.

Poor form, poor form.

TMC Senior Developer http://themittani.com - Because EvE has needed a proper news site for ages
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#276 - 2013-05-15 02:57:17 UTC
Robus Muvila wrote:
General Discussion I am disappointed. LHA Tahrwna or whatever it is, is not a particularly noteworthy forums denzien. The only reason he sticks in my mind is the whole concept of dropping corp to avoid wars like it's some almighty secret to win Eve is pretty much all he ever posts about. It's a troll account.

He's made at least 2 threads about it before. I'm seeing good posters being trolled here and it just breaks my heart.

Poor form, poor form.

I already pointed that out like ten pages ago. Despite this guy most likely being a troll, this thread, and this discussion, are both absolutely necessary.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Robus Muvila
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#277 - 2013-05-15 03:05:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Robus Muvila
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Robus Muvila wrote:
General Discussion I am disappointed. LHA Tahrwna or whatever it is, is not a particularly noteworthy forums denzien. The only reason he sticks in my mind is the whole concept of dropping corp to avoid wars like it's some almighty secret to win Eve is pretty much all he ever posts about. It's a troll account.

He's made at least 2 threads about it before. I'm seeing good posters being trolled here and it just breaks my heart.

Poor form, poor form.

I already pointed that out like ten pages ago. Despite this guy most likely being a troll, this thread, and this discussion, are both absolutely necessary.


Sorry I only got about 3 1/2 pages in before I started twitching. And this conversation does need to be had, it is being had, it has been had and it will be had a hell of a lot more times too. And no one will shift an inch on ther point of views ever.

Ever ever.

TMC Senior Developer http://themittani.com - Because EvE has needed a proper news site for ages
rswfire
#278 - 2013-05-15 03:12:00 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
As a quick aside, anyone notice how all the stuff being changed has to do with defending against pvp attempts? I mean, ally timers decreased to four hours, drop timers becoming instant, insurance not being paid out due to CONCORD, etc etc. How come they're not buffing the stuff that benefits the gankers, warriors, or other belligerents?

If it was give-and-take I'd understand, but it's just take and take and take. Can any of you non-sociopaths objectively name one instance of ganking, wars, or other such activities being buffed? And don't say T3 BCs; that doesn't really count.

Don't just rush to respond to me how this game is "evolving." Think about it for a second. Maybe CCP is actually nerfing pvp in a lot of its forms.


I think they probably are. But I see it a little differently. I think they are "balancing" something that wasn't balanced previously. You don't need buffs because you have all of the advantages. Perhaps that's short-sighted of me, I don't know, but that is my general impression of the situation.

About Firesworn Nation .|. FB .|. G+ .|. Steam
rswfire
#279 - 2013-05-15 03:14:26 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
I already pointed that out like ten pages ago. Despite this guy most likely being a troll, this thread, and this discussion, are both absolutely necessary.


And constructive. :)

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Varius Xeral
Doomheim
#280 - 2013-05-15 03:18:04 UTC
Kangaax wrote:
Erm, i don't think anyone in a nullsec alliance will drop corp while entering highsec


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