These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Woot, woot. Now even easier to get out of a war dec.

First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
EI Digin
irc.zulusquad.org
#201 - 2013-05-14 22:44:50 UTC
Iudicium Vastus wrote:


Happens more than you think. They're not after the isk. Why Hisec wars are most often a case of risk-averse (Carebearing it up) pvp'ers wanting some barges to pewpew safely.


All of the veterans out there who can afford to lose a few ships or hire mercenaries are not wardeccable and will never be wardeccable in the first place. People who enjoy the highsec PVP lifestyle are forced to scavenge whatever's left, which are the new and terminally dumb.

There will never be a decent highsec pvp food chain as long as the plankton get to decide that they're (relatively) invincible.
Sheynan
Lighting the blight
#202 - 2013-05-14 22:49:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Sheynan
There is no point in moaning about corp-hopping and immunity in wardecs. People would just drop into NPC corps or not undock at all if they couldn't do it anymore (Which would be ok for me personally, but hardly an improvement of the whole "war" situation)

They need incentives to build something for their corporation/alliance that they care about and don't want to lose, if only for all the ISK/time they spent building it.
Nullsec, Lowsec, WHs have this to some extent, but highsec is sorely missing it (given that even POSs can be saved in time)

We need:

1) Either a reduction of the 24h timer on war declaration or an increase of the time it takes to deassemble a POS directly after a war declaration so that every highsec POS is at risk

2) Highsec POCOs !

Both focus more or less on industrial corporations, but for pure mining/missionrunning corps things get difficult.
Sizable corp refinery structures (with public access features) and subsequent lowering of refining rates in NPCs stations might be interesting.
Or special NPC-agent corporation to player corporation contracts that run for several weeks with sizable payments at the end
(e.g missionrunning corp xy is contracted by Caldari Navy to fly 3 lvl 4 mission in the Forge everyday for 2 weeks for juicy bonus LP after completion and succesive contracts with even better terms)


Or whatever...the point is:
To make wardecs matter in highsec, there needs to be something can be burnt down
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#203 - 2013-05-14 22:51:46 UTC
Sheynan wrote:
There is no point in moaning about corp-hopping and immunity in wardecs. People would just drop into NPC corps or not undock at all if they couldn't do it anymore (Which would be ok for me personally, but hardly an improvement of the whole "war" situation)

At least there's the increased tax in NPC corps so the bears have to pay something extra relative to normal players for the increased safety. Now even that is going to be entirely irrelevant.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
EI Digin
irc.zulusquad.org
#204 - 2013-05-14 22:54:04 UTC
Did I mention that new players have a very very difficult time finding a decent community to play with in the first place because there are very few of them in highsec that are worth joining? Peer pressure is really the best way to get people to subscribe to the game, didn't you learn anything from high school?

Joining a social group in highsec is frowned upon because there are very few benefits that a highsec-only corp can provide you. There's no reason for people to work together.

I find it really odd that the area of the game that has the most players in it has the least amount of organization. There are thousands of corps that can work independently or maybe together in alliances or coalitions, why aren't there any that can do much of anything in highsec?
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#205 - 2013-05-14 22:55:04 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Sheynan wrote:
There is no point in moaning about corp-hopping and immunity in wardecs. People would just drop into NPC corps or not undock at all if they couldn't do it anymore (Which would be ok for me personally, but hardly an improvement of the whole "war" situation)

At least there's the increased tax in NPC corps so the bears have to pay something extra relative to normal players for the increased safety. Now even that is going to be entirely irrelevant.


Only increased cost for "some" of them, not all. The haulers and miners and traders don't pay anything extra, the mission/incursion runners and explorers do.
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#206 - 2013-05-14 22:57:12 UTC
EI Digin wrote:
I find it really odd that the area of the game that has the most players in it has the least amount of organization. There are thousands of corps that can work independently or maybe together in alliances or coalitions, why aren't there any that can do much of anything in highsec?

Because of their passive, cowardly attitudes.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Montevius Williams
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#207 - 2013-05-14 23:00:58 UTC
Andski wrote:
LHA Tarawa wrote:
Maybe EVE was originally about being a cold, harsh place where you were constantly in danger, and the weak dropped the game. It is not that any more. It is now a game designed to support many play styles, and all kinds of players.


Right. EVE must accommodate you and your desire to not face any risk, not face any consequences for bad choices and not have to put any thought into your gameplay. Otherwise you will quit and the eve community will lose a valuable member


EVE is still cold and dark, its just Cold and Dark in select locations (low sec and Low Sec)

High sec is happy happy fun time
Null sec is a joke with 15 year old kids running things

Worm Hole and Low sec is where the brutality is

"The American Government indoctrination system known as public education has been relentlessly churning out socialists for over 20 years". - TravisWB
Sheynan
Lighting the blight
#208 - 2013-05-14 23:03:25 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
EI Digin wrote:
I find it really odd that the area of the game that has the most players in it has the least amount of organization. There are thousands of corps that can work independently or maybe together in alliances or coalitions, why aren't there any that can do much of anything in highsec?

Because of their passive, cowardly attitudes.


Or because they don't gain anything from it that is worth the time they spend organising themselves.
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
#209 - 2013-05-14 23:04:10 UTC
Montevius Williams wrote:
Andski wrote:
LHA Tarawa wrote:
Maybe EVE was originally about being a cold, harsh place where you were constantly in danger, and the weak dropped the game. It is not that any more. It is now a game designed to support many play styles, and all kinds of players.


Right. EVE must accommodate you and your desire to not face any risk, not face any consequences for bad choices and not have to put any thought into your gameplay. Otherwise you will quit and the eve community will lose a valuable member


EVE is still cold and dark, its just Cold and Dark in select locations (low sec and Low Sec)

High sec is happy happy fun time
Null sec is a joke with 15 year old kids running things

Worm Hole and Low sec is where the brutality is


Trammel killed Ultima Online, CCP will ever make the some mistake.

The Tears Must Flow
Sentamon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#210 - 2013-05-14 23:04:21 UTC
Vaju Enki wrote:
Wardecs should follow players until the war ends.


I got a better one. Starting a war should allow anyone to wardec you (the aggressor) for free.

~ Professional Forum Alt  ~
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#211 - 2013-05-14 23:07:50 UTC
EI Digin wrote:
I mention that new players have a very very difficult time finding a decent community to play with in the first place because there are very few of them in highsec that are worth joining? Peer pressure is really the best way to get people to subscribe to the game, didn't you learn anything from high school?

Joining a social group in highsec is frowned upon because there are very few benefits that a highsec-only corp can provide you. There's no reason for people to work together.

I find it really odd that the area of the game that has the most players in it has the least amount of organization. There are thousands of corps that can work independently or maybe together in alliances or coalitions, why aren't there any that can do much of anything in highsec?



I don't, most gamers are adreniline addicted loners who play games to relax or get away from stress/life/the world. They want to play and be done with it, which is why MMOs are a big market but twitch games are biggger. Even among MMO player, most are not hard core and can't accept any form of loss or discomfort from what is (to them) supposed to be "fun", which is why most MMOs don't do harsh death penalties and universal non-consensual pvp.

Even in a game like EVE you find a lot of the types I describe above which used to annoy and confuse me (can't we have ONE game not filled with whiney gimmie gimmie, shallow ego, afraid to lose, welfare queens?). Now I just accept it as the way of the world.
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#212 - 2013-05-14 23:08:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Destiny Corrupted
Sheynan wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
EI Digin wrote:
I find it really odd that the area of the game that has the most players in it has the least amount of organization. There are thousands of corps that can work independently or maybe together in alliances or coalitions, why aren't there any that can do much of anything in highsec?

Because of their passive, cowardly attitudes.


Or because they don't gain anything from it that is worth the time they spend organising themselves.

Not necessarily true. Pooling resources is almost always more efficient. Carebears are just too stupid and weak to do it properly.

Sentamon wrote:
Vaju Enki wrote:
Wardecs should follow players until the war ends.


I got a better one. Starting a war should allow anyone to wardec you (the aggressor) for free.

Yeah, uh, that's what the ally system is for...

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
rswfire
#213 - 2013-05-14 23:08:28 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Because of their passive, cowardly attitudes.


We'll know soon enough if this is true. I've felt for a long time that highsec needs a coalition. It has the majority of players (as far as I'm aware), yet they are the most disparate throughout the Eve-verse. It is why their voices are rarely listened to, and why so many freighters are destroyed during events like "Burn Jita" and why they do not participate in CSM elections. They're simply uninformed.

Whether or not that can be changed is hard to say, but my group has been working on plans to offer an organized highsec coalition alliance (which will obviously receive plenty of griefing) to the community soon. It may or may not succeed, but it is something we'd like to try to do.

I also agree that many new players end up in "bad corps" that do a poor job of teaching them; we've worked hard to create programs in our alliance that allow people to pursue the paths that suit them and we're going to extend that at a coalition level if we can. We fought very hard to get where we are now...despite constant aggression and war, we never wavered to pursue our goals in the midst of it all, and thus we've not stagnated.

We're not all risk-averse, but that doesn't mean we want to constantly fight others. There are a lot of things to do in Eve and war makes everything more challenging. People say "fly safe" but I say "fly smart." I'm getting off topic. All I'm saying is that there is merit in this idea, and I wouldn't write it off as impossible until some have at least tried to do it.

About Firesworn Nation .|. FB .|. G+ .|. Steam
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
#214 - 2013-05-14 23:20:00 UTC
Popcorn... or, tear bucket..

Decisions, decisions.

☼

There's a million angry citizens looking down their tubes..at me.
Iudicium Vastus
Doomheim
#215 - 2013-05-14 23:27:25 UTC
Doc Fury wrote:
Popcorn... or, tear bucket..

Decisions, decisions.



Personally, Tear bucket here. If you get popcorn we can both share Smile

I find it funny that decers/pvp'ers/griefers are the biggest criers over such a thing like this. Just shows that they really do want just easy targets. "Oh noez! My easy targets can drop corp quicker!" while if they didn't go after soft targets like indy corps and instead opt to fight other combat capable and experienced corps who would also be looking for some fun and good fights, and therefore far less likely to drop out of the fun, this little detail wouldn't bother them.

[u]Nerf stabs/cloaks in FW?[/u] No, just.. -Fit more points -Fit faction points -Bring a friend or two with points (an alt is fine too)
Rena Emishi
Doomheim
#216 - 2013-05-14 23:30:16 UTC
Fine make Hi sec 100% safe from pvp and ganks. In exchange nerf all money making in Hi sec to such pityful amounts that people are forced to go to low sec / null.

It makes me sick that people can make more money in HI sec with minimal risk than some one that does pvp in low and null sec.

Infact considering low sec is the real danger zone rename it pirate space remove the gate guns and put the best minerals and rats thier.

RISK SHOULD = REWARD
. NO RISK, NO REWARD.

_Valar Morghulis, Valar Dohaeris _
Montevius Williams
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#217 - 2013-05-14 23:31:02 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
LHA Tarawa wrote:
Julius Priscus wrote:

is there still a 24 hour timer for war decs?

if so CCP should remove them so war decs are instant, for the next expansion to offset the insta leaving corps in EVE..


Yes, there is still a 24 hour timer.

Result of removing the timer would be that all carebears would quit, CCP would suffer a massive revenue drop, and they'd be bankrupt. I kind o' doubt that is their plan.


We could lose every carebear and carry on just fine. They are entirely replaceable.


I'm all about EVE brutality but this statement is conjecture

What % of EVE players are hardcore PvP'ers

What % of EVE players are carebears

Unless you know these numbers, your statement does not make any sense whatsoever.

Even assuming that 10% of EVE players are carebears, if that 10% of EVE players quit the game, thats a HUGE impact on CCP's bottom line and thats assuming that EVE's playerbase consists of ONLY 10% carebears.

So now you've just lost 10% of your playerbase and have to spend more marketing money to replace them with another 10%

You probably have to change your entire marketing stradegy to get a "different" type of player (non carebear) so there is more money invested.

You dont just give up 10% of your consumerbase and act like nothing happened. The real world doesnt work like that.

Not many compaines will WILLINGLY take a 10% loss in year over year revenue. If they do, they dont know how to run their company.

"The American Government indoctrination system known as public education has been relentlessly churning out socialists for over 20 years". - TravisWB
nakinto
State War Academy
Caldari State
#218 - 2013-05-14 23:33:46 UTC  |  Edited by: nakinto
the only problem I have with this is it is so easy for the corp to just quite and reform. I enjoy wardeccing mouthy SOB's and gankers. but then they just close corp and open a new one and my 50mil is worthless

we COULD replace every carebear... but do we WANT to? you have any idea what that would do to the economy? can you say NO ships on market for at least months? of course I would love that... being a PVP main and a secondary industry and having a few bil in ore stockpiled can we remove the entire backbone of eve for a few weeks? :)
Iudicium Vastus
Doomheim
#219 - 2013-05-14 23:36:18 UTC
Forget a buckets, we're gonna need a Tear Dam for this one.

[u]Nerf stabs/cloaks in FW?[/u] No, just.. -Fit more points -Fit faction points -Bring a friend or two with points (an alt is fine too)
Corey Fumimasa
CFM Salvage
#220 - 2013-05-14 23:42:21 UTC
rswfire wrote:

I asked a question; I did not raise an argument. In fact, my question was in relation to an argument raised. That said, I do believe it is a valid argument here. If someone says Eve grows faster when it is more dangerous, they are essentially saying that more people are subbing and playing it (presumably people who had not been exposed to Eve previously), so the next logical question is, "Did those people stick around?" We may not have CCP's numbers, but we're a fairly educated bunch of people capable of making educated guesses.


The thing about guessing what will or has in the past worked to gain subscriptions is that we do not have that information. Whenever the subject comes up the conversation shifts from one about game theory and personal experience, to a never ending yuhu, nu uh, yuhu, nu uh. This completely overwhelms the original topic because once asked it must be resolved, but it never can because we don't have that information.