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[Odyssey] Navy Battleships

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Jason Sirober
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#481 - 2013-05-14 15:07:41 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:
MinutemanKirk wrote:
Grath Telkin wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:
MinutemanKirk wrote:
Any particular reason why you don't want to make the Dominix have 20 fitting slots like every other Navy BS? Would be kinda nice to have 8 low slots since it's a split weapon platform AND supposed to be armor tanked...


drones.

apparently drone utility negates a fitting slot for some reason.



Because drones can imitate a target painter, web, jammer, dampener, reps, or dps, so ships that specialize in high drone payloads receive one less slot.


An armor tanked ship isn't going to NEED drones for EWAR with 6 mids. As the domi only has 6 turrets, 90% of the time drones are used for DPS. As the navy variant will be keeping the turret bonus, it will promote needing to use magstabs in addition to drone damage augs thus meaning a smaller tank. As drones have expressly been stated as needing work, saying that the flexibility of drones = 1 low slot is hardly right. If that were the case the Mega would need to lose a low as it has plenty of drone options as well.


I'm not sure if anybody has bothered to tell you this yet in life, but I'll go ahead and be the first::

Just because you don't agree with something doesn't make it wrong or factually incorrect.


Exibit 1... Navy Geddon has 375m3 drone space and DOESN'T lose a fitting slot???? How is this balanced?
Drunken Bum
#482 - 2013-05-14 15:10:59 UTC
Deathwing Reborn wrote:
I am HIGHLY disappointed that the Dominix is not receiving the new T1 bonuses. Please pass those along. I wanted to fly the Navy Domi with the tracking bonuses.

This is the absolute dumbest thing I've heard all year, and this morning i listened to a deunken native laughing at jokes a child would tell. Please be trolling.

After the patch we're giving the market some gentle supply restriction, like tying one wrist to the bedpost loosely with soft silk rope. Just enough to make things a bit more exciting for the market, not enough to make a safeword necessary.  -Fozzie
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#483 - 2013-05-14 15:14:47 UTC
Jason Sirober wrote:
don't agree with something doesn't make it wrong or factually incorrect.

Exibit 1... Navy Geddon has 375m3 drone space and DOESN'T lose a fitting slot???? How is this balanced?


touche!

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Drunken Bum
#484 - 2013-05-14 15:16:14 UTC
el cowboy wrote:
I think the Navy Domi not getting the tracking bonus is stupid. You all made a good choice making the normal Domi a full drone boat, why not follow with the Navy version? Does not make any sense to me.

The Galente changes are weak all around in my opinion.

Have you TRIED the regular domi on sisi? Its terrible. They broke that ship. Im guessing they know it, but are too stubborn/prideful to admit they ****** up hard with one of the most used battleships in the game.

After the patch we're giving the market some gentle supply restriction, like tying one wrist to the bedpost loosely with soft silk rope. Just enough to make things a bit more exciting for the market, not enough to make a safeword necessary.  -Fozzie
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#485 - 2013-05-14 15:16:31 UTC
el cowboy wrote:
I think the Navy Domi not getting the tracking bonus is stupid. You all made a good choice making the normal Domi a full drone boat, why not follow with the Navy version? Does not make any sense to me.

The Galente changes are weak all around in my opinion.


apparently there are some pople who use it in a niche role for doing missions with blaster setup...

thats why.

other wise its a half billion glass cannon

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Flanneh
MoM Incorporated
#486 - 2013-05-14 15:20:19 UTC
Does anyone have a link to the EFT stuff that has the new values for these ships?


Kinda gutted to see my PVE Torp CNR lose some raw dps, but whether that will be offset by increased damage application (under web/painter) will have to be seen. From what I have read here, probably not.

Correct me if I'm wrong Malcanis, but any PVE torp CNR will be decreased in dps, will it not? You are singing the praises of it in cruise, but the ability to choose weapon system is pretty damn important.


^^ The above statement comes with zero maths. **** that stuff
Drunken Bum
#487 - 2013-05-14 15:21:26 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Drunken Bum wrote:
Turelus wrote:
CNR is king of PVE again? Big smile

Only people who havent flown a machariel say this ;)



You do know that Tracking Enhancers are getting nerf soon, and later the Mach (and cynabal) are getting nerfed right?

Well aware. You're aware it'll still have 55km falloff with the proposed te changes? It'l most likely get reduced speed and increased sig. Im pretty sure i'd still take it over the cnr. I'd take the new phoon over the cnr even

After the patch we're giving the market some gentle supply restriction, like tying one wrist to the bedpost loosely with soft silk rope. Just enough to make things a bit more exciting for the market, not enough to make a safeword necessary.  -Fozzie
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#488 - 2013-05-14 15:27:04 UTC
Flanneh wrote:
Does anyone have a link to the EFT stuff that has the new values for these ships?


Kinda gutted to see my PVE Torp CNR lose some raw dps, but whether that will be offset by increased damage application (under web/painter) will have to be seen. From what I have read here, probably not.

Correct me if I'm wrong Malcanis, but any PVE torp CNR will be decreased in dps, will it not? You are singing the praises of it in cruise, but the ability to choose weapon system is pretty damn important.


^^ The above statement comes with zero maths. **** that stuff


from what i understand less potential dps

but more applied dps.

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#489 - 2013-05-14 15:31:33 UTC
mynnna wrote:
So hey, gonna throw this in amongst the bickering.

Quote:
[NEW Megathron Navy Issue, Fleet]
1600mm Reinforced Steel Plates II
Internal Force Field Array I
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Adaptive Nano Plating II
Dark Blood Armor Explosive Hardener
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II

Prototype 100MN Microwarpdrive I
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 150
F-90 Positional Sensor Subroutines, Scan Resolution Script
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script

425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Heavy Unstable Power Fluctuator I

Large Trimark Armor Pump I
Large Trimark Armor Pump I
Large Trimark Armor Pump I


Garde II x5
Vespa EC-600 x5


930 DPS with Gardes (realistically, use sentries with longer range, but it's still a lot of dps), 150k EHP, aligns in 10 seconds, moves at 1033m/s, has a heavy neut if things try to go to zero on you, and only needs booster 150s at a minimum to be cap stable.

It's kinda good. Might be slightly disadvantaged in solo/small gang compared to the Vindicator, but it's a fine fleet ship.


so pretty much you launch the sentries... then you have to emerg warp out... half the fleet does not have time to recall so now you have no sentry dps... and you are down to what? 550-600 dps?

also you slow due to plates and trimarks...

if you were going armor why not use the apoc?

if you are going rails i dont see why you would not use the rokh... its cheaper better range and comparable dps and ehp...
plus the benefits of shield rr.

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Flanneh
MoM Incorporated
#490 - 2013-05-14 15:32:13 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:
from what i understand less potential dps

but more applied dps.



Yer, a wait and see I suppose. Cruises look fun, eh ;)
Ager Agemo
Rainbow Ponies Incorporated
#491 - 2013-05-14 15:33:25 UTC
wait... that navy raven.. got nerfed? what the hell? ravens with triple rigor rigs already hit targets pretty well with or without the exp bonus, it is getting lower real DPS an eight turret WILL NOT make up for the loss of a ROF bonus.


tho I guess taking onto account cruise missile bonuses it will become some sort of alpha missile ship which looks nice..



also typhoon will kick ass ! @.@
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#492 - 2013-05-14 15:41:48 UTC
Ager Agemo wrote:
wait... that navy raven.. got nerfed? what the hell? ravens with triple rigor rigs already hit targets pretty well with or without the exp bonus, it is getting lower real DPS an eight turret WILL NOT make up for the loss of a ROF bonus.


tho I guess taking onto account cruise missile bonuses it will become some sort of alpha missile ship which looks nice..



also typhoon will kick ass ! @.@


well now you can drop a rigor for a damage rig or rof rig or whatever kind of rig you would place if you had the chan e to drop a riggor.

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Octoven
Stellar Production
#493 - 2013-05-14 15:43:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Octoven
Alexander Renoir wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:


The ‘standard’ upgrade package for Navy BS is an extra slot (along with appropriate fitting adjustment) as well as approximately 50% more hitpoints. Some of these rebalanced versions will follow that pattern very closely, while others will diverge more significantly to completely new bonuses and roles.
....
We are giving the CNR an 8th launcher to make up for the loss of the rate of fire bonus, and replacing rate of fire with a bonus to explosion radius. Along with the incoming buff to cruise missiles, this ship is going to be an animal.

Caldari Battleship Skill Bonuses:
+5% bonus to Torpedo and Cruise Missile explosion radius
+10% bonus to Cruise Missile Torpedo Velocity

Slot layout: 8H, 7M(+1), 5L; 0 turrets , 8 launchers(+1)
Defense (shields / armor / hull): 10500(-750) / 8000(-1961) / 9500(-461)


WHY Do you want to nerf my CNR?

I fly my ship with ALL LEVEL 5 Skills and if I calculate with the Rate Of Fire Bonus, I would have 8,75 Launcher (+25% from 7 launcher = +1,75) now.
Even with Battle Ship-Skill Level 3 this would be still 8.05 Launchers! 8.05 Launchers which I would have NOW!

And now you come to me and say you will buff the CNR? No Sir, you effectively nerf it!

The end of your "adjustment" is, that I have to use more ammunition, have less damage and lose my Tractor Beam from an high Slot!
You want to rebuild my CNR into a ship for rookies? Your modification is better for some one with Battle Ship Skill Level 2. But if you have L3 or L5 (like me) you absolutely lose firepower and a high-Slot for a tractor beam. Additionaly you do not give MORE hitpoints to my ship, you want to take some hitpoints away!
Keep the Rate Of Firebonus. Keep the tractor beam. The Med-slot is nice but not necessary.

I came back after a break from EVE. Now I see that this was a mistake. I am dissapointed that you try to bring a nerf but want to sell it as an buff! I will cancel my subscription again. Sad

Edit:
Two Eve Subscriptions Cancelled! Bye!


Can I haves your stuff?? Big smile

By the way...there is absolutely zero reason to even have a tractor beam on a CNR. I would have used a drone damage amplifier instead. Either way, if you want your utility slot I suggest the T1 Raven. The CNR is a beast now. At the moment, the CNR applies more DPS for fewer launchers but it applies that DPS like ****. I mean really the only thing the current CNR is good at shooting is Battlecruiser and Battleship sized NPCs. Anything lower and you need your drones. However, with the new bonuses, you can shoot the cruisers and frigs the way you shoot BS and BC now. Oh yeah, and shooting the BS and BC with these bonuses will make THAT even more effective.

You obviously do not understand the mechanics behind applying damage. Just because the fitting window says its less DPS then now, doesnt mean its less effective. To put it another way which is better: A raven that has a DPS of 340 and hits BC and BS with 80% of that damage and Cruisers with 60% and frigs with 40% OR a raven that has 310 DPS and hits the BC and BS with 100% effectiveness, cruisers with 80% and frigs with 60%? Yes, you are correct in that 8 launchers forces you to use more ammo then 7; however, the bonuses to the damage application means your missiles are hitting harder and thus you will need less of them fired to actually kill something.

I can not understand how you fail to see this concept, but there it is the best I can explain it. If you still want to unsub for an enhancement because in your misunderstood view, it is a nerf...go for it.
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#494 - 2013-05-14 15:43:33 UTC
Is there a specific reason why NPC corp members are allowed to post on the forums?

Read only access, and posting rights to the new player area would suffice.

.
Sal Landry
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#495 - 2013-05-14 15:43:43 UTC
I don't like that you've given the Raven, RNI, SNI and Golem identical missile dps. Sure there are other variables that are different, but imo it's still unnecessary homogenization.
Tim Ryder
Flippin DaBird Corporation 2
#496 - 2013-05-14 15:46:01 UTC
Main CNR problem is - still - getting 45tf CPU to drive a midslot *and* a launcher, when the launcher alone takes 57tf with proper rigs. That'll take some fiddling to fit, won't add another coprocessor.
Deerin
East Trading Co Ltd
#497 - 2013-05-14 15:48:42 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:
can someone give me a tldr of the last 12 pages i am too hungover to read them...



Usual eve forum stuff. People using tractor beams as balance arguments for navy battleships. Making one sided arguments and then actually believing them.

Did anybody check viability of furies against cruiser size vessels when used by CNR? With the new bonus it might just be viable
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#498 - 2013-05-14 15:50:09 UTC
Roime wrote:
Is there a specific reason why NPC corp members are allowed to post on the forums?

Read only access, and posting rights to the new player area would suffice.



get a life.

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Johnson Oramara
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#499 - 2013-05-14 15:53:00 UTC
Tim Ryder wrote:
Main CNR problem is - still - getting 45tf CPU to drive a midslot *and* a launcher, when the launcher alone takes 57tf with proper rigs. That'll take some fiddling to fit, won't add another coprocessor.

You think it's bad with trying to squeeze cruises on it? Try putting torps on it and actually fit the rest of the ship :P
Ager Agemo
Rainbow Ponies Incorporated
#500 - 2013-05-14 16:03:28 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:
Ager Agemo wrote:
wait... that navy raven.. got nerfed? what the hell? ravens with triple rigor rigs already hit targets pretty well with or without the exp bonus, it is getting lower real DPS an eight turret WILL NOT make up for the loss of a ROF bonus.


tho I guess taking onto account cruise missile bonuses it will become some sort of alpha missile ship which looks nice..



also typhoon will kick ass ! @.@


well now you can drop a rigor for a damage rig or rof rig or whatever kind of rig you would place if you had the chan e to drop a riggor.



dropping a rigor and changing it for a damage rig will not help, its simple math:

7 launchers * (1/0.75) rof bonus = 9.33 launchers

8 launchers * no bonus = 8 launchers?

Damage application will be the VERY EXACT SAME since a SINGLE RIG can make up for that explo bonus.

so overall its a very nasty nerf to the ship, after running some more math it seems the CNS will be doing 7.98 launchers damage, and given it already has the very same damage application due to rigs but one more low slot, you can add one more BCU (tho heavy penalized).


all in all, this seems like all the navy battleships are the same thing if not weaker than their T1 counterparts, except for the EHP and that nice typhoon.