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[Odyssey] Navy Battleships

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MinutemanKirk
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#221 - 2013-05-13 23:52:45 UTC
Any particular reason why you don't want to make the Dominix have 20 fitting slots like every other Navy BS? Would be kinda nice to have 8 low slots since it's a split weapon platform AND supposed to be armor tanked...
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#222 - 2013-05-13 23:55:06 UTC  |  Edited by: MeBiatch
Marlona Sky wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:
Quote:
This list. I don't suppose we can get any sneak peeks at what's in store for rebalance in the near future? Not in any order, obviously, but just to see what's on the menu.


Of course, no promises in terms of order or anything - but the short list includes things like medium rails, hacs, eafs, beams, some other t2 classes like inties/maurders, and some other mods which i don't want to name atm incase they get pushed back awhile. =)

Beams need to be the absolute first thing on your list.


Wrong. Medium rails.


medium rails?

umm...

increase base damage by 12.5% fixed?

so tech II 150 without skills will go from 1.98 to 2.2275
tech II 200 without skills will go from 2.64 to 2.97
tech II 250 without skills will go from 3.63 to 4.08375

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#223 - 2013-05-13 23:56:06 UTC
MinutemanKirk wrote:
Any particular reason why you don't want to make the Dominix have 20 fitting slots like every other Navy BS? Would be kinda nice to have 8 low slots since it's a split weapon platform AND supposed to be armor tanked...


drones.

apparently drone utility negates a fitting slot for some reason.

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#224 - 2013-05-13 23:58:06 UTC
Grunnax Aurelius wrote:
Taoist Dragon wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:
Quote:
please tell me TD's with missiles are on there and command links /T3 nerf and command ships


You're right, these things too. Theres so much to do!


Do not make TD"s affect missiles unless you nerf unbonussed TD's into the ground! There are already lots of mitigating tactics to reduce the medium DPS of missiles as is making TD affect missiles would make them the most OP e-war mods in game.

Other than that I like the new navy ships. I might even fly some of them soon. maybe...


TD already affect missiles since retribution, Optimal reduces flight time and Tracking reduces Explosion Velocity and Increases Explosion Radius., but Tracking Computers don't buff them, bit BIAS don't you think?



Yea so this change never actually happened, I hope you haven't been TD'ing missile boats thinking you were doing anything.

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#225 - 2013-05-13 23:59:09 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:
MinutemanKirk wrote:
Any particular reason why you don't want to make the Dominix have 20 fitting slots like every other Navy BS? Would be kinda nice to have 8 low slots since it's a split weapon platform AND supposed to be armor tanked...


drones.

apparently drone utility negates a fitting slot for some reason.



Because drones can imitate a target painter, web, jammer, dampener, reps, or dps, so ships that specialize in high drone payloads receive one less slot.

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#226 - 2013-05-14 00:01:20 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:
MinutemanKirk wrote:
Any particular reason why you don't want to make the Dominix have 20 fitting slots like every other Navy BS? Would be kinda nice to have 8 low slots since it's a split weapon platform AND supposed to be armor tanked...


drones.

apparently drone utility negates a fitting slot for some reason.



Because drones can imitate a target painter, web, jammer, dampener, reps, or dps, so ships that specialize in high drone payloads receive one less slot.


ok i understand jammer reps or dps but when was the last time you used the other options?

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Grunnax Aurelius
State War Academy
Caldari State
#227 - 2013-05-14 00:06:06 UTC
S4nn4 wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Smoking Blunts wrote:


the cnr having the same base dps as the raven isn't a good thing imo, ok I know it will be better applied in this version but forcing it to use 8 launchers instead of the 6 of the raven to get the same result is painful.


It's not the same result, though: it's qualitatively superior in damage application and alpha.

They'll both be equally good for shooting structures and capitals, I suppose. For anything else, the CNR will be a quantum step ahead.


I dunno man. Stop and think about it this way. The damage application on the CNR is already good enough that people weren't clamoring to use Cruise Golems despite the dramatically superior damage application. The new bonus is extremely underwhelming and an outright nerf to the CNR.

-Liang


I agree with Liang. This is a nerf for torp-CNR's.


The Explosion Radius bonus is slightly better than the bonus from a T2 Rigor rig (20%, but rigor rigs doesn't have a stacking penalty, this is important). Anyone who already uses Rigor rigs will save at most one rig slot and loose 14% raw DPS (1- 8 / (7 / 0.75)) for a very slight increase in damage application.
The 14% DPS that was lost can not be gained back by fitting a T2 Loading Accelerator rig (15% ROF bonus) instead, this is because this rig has a stacking penalty with the Ballistic Control Units that will surely be on the ship already.
This is a net loss. The only people who gain are those who didn't know they needed Rigors to begin with.


To be fair. It will however be slightly easier to get out more damage from T2 Fury ammo, especially for ships who are still Rigor crazy. Although, fury ammo is still the easiest one to speed tank against, so it will not work so great against "fast" targets (base speed or with AB, MWD has sig bloom which mostly cancels out the bonus from speed). An example of "fast" when the target has 420m sig radius is: old CNR (T2 fury ammo, all skills 5, two T2 rigor's, no implants) does half damage against the target when it is moving at 177m/s, the new CNR does half damage against the target when it is moving at 235m/s (for navy torps, the corresponding values are 360m/s and 479m/s).




Oh boohoo, CNR is no longer quite as good at bashing a POS, I don't GAF, its actually more viable for PvP because of application finally. Im happy, eight launchers that apply really well.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=342042&find=unread
Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#228 - 2013-05-14 00:09:36 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:
Grath Telkin wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:
MinutemanKirk wrote:
Any particular reason why you don't want to make the Dominix have 20 fitting slots like every other Navy BS? Would be kinda nice to have 8 low slots since it's a split weapon platform AND supposed to be armor tanked...


drones.

apparently drone utility negates a fitting slot for some reason.



Because drones can imitate a target painter, web, jammer, dampener, reps, or dps, so ships that specialize in high drone payloads receive one less slot.


ok i understand jammer reps or dps but when was the last time you used the other options?


Didn't say they get used, just outlining the mentality behind the reason.

EDIT: Also web drones can be shockingly useful if you run by yourself a lot.

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
MinutemanKirk
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#229 - 2013-05-14 00:09:44 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:
MinutemanKirk wrote:
Any particular reason why you don't want to make the Dominix have 20 fitting slots like every other Navy BS? Would be kinda nice to have 8 low slots since it's a split weapon platform AND supposed to be armor tanked...


drones.

apparently drone utility negates a fitting slot for some reason.



Because drones can imitate a target painter, web, jammer, dampener, reps, or dps, so ships that specialize in high drone payloads receive one less slot.


An armor tanked ship isn't going to NEED drones for EWAR with 6 mids. As the domi only has 6 turrets, 90% of the time drones are used for DPS. As the navy variant will be keeping the turret bonus, it will promote needing to use magstabs in addition to drone damage augs thus meaning a smaller tank. As drones have expressly been stated as needing work, saying that the flexibility of drones = 1 low slot is hardly right. If that were the case the Mega would need to lose a low as it has plenty of drone options as well.
Tim Ryder
Flippin DaBird Corporation 2
#230 - 2013-05-14 00:11:31 UTC
For the CNR. 45 extra CPU and an extra midslot. And where's the CPU to drive that extra launcher? With 2x t2 rigors, 1x t1 flare - which maybe would be t2 rigor, t2 flare, t1 flare after Odyssey - a single launcher with Weapon Upgrades V, Launcher Rigging IV takes 58.96 tf.
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#231 - 2013-05-14 00:16:23 UTC  |  Edited by: MeBiatch
Grath Telkin wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:
Grath Telkin wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:
MinutemanKirk wrote:
Any particular reason why you don't want to make the Dominix have 20 fitting slots like every other Navy BS? Would be kinda nice to have 8 low slots since it's a split weapon platform AND supposed to be armor tanked...


drones.

apparently drone utility negates a fitting slot for some reason.



Because drones can imitate a target painter, web, jammer, dampener, reps, or dps, so ships that specialize in high drone payloads receive one less slot.


ok i understand jammer reps or dps but when was the last time you used the other options?


Didn't say they get used, just outlining the mentality behind the reason.

EDIT: Also web drones can be shockingly useful if you run by yourself a lot.


indeed.

drones need a major overhaul alla crime watch got...

for me it would be great if i could set my logi drone to rep myself

i would boost non ecm electronic drones... well i would nerf ecm drones and then make tech II electronic drones and make tech II ecm drones as good as they are now... but that would also make tech II sensor damp drones good and ect.

i would add small and medium sentry drones

i would balance ecm/therm/kin/ex drones

also make it so i can use nanite paste to repair my drones while they are in the drone bay.

i would rename sentry rigs to drone damage rigs and make them affect all drone damage.

hehe just to prove the point how useless non ecm drones can be you forgot to mention neuting drones...

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Of Essence
#232 - 2013-05-14 00:17:17 UTC  |  Edited by: chatgris
The navy Mega really needs another turret slot.

As it stands now, it has slightly better base tank and a utility slot over the non-navy version. It's fairly underwhelming. A few extra drones don't really help much.

With an 8th turret slot, it will still do less damage than a vindicator, with less sensor strength and won't have the omgwtfbbq web bonus, so it won't be overpowered.
Caljiav Ocanon
The Holy Rollers
#233 - 2013-05-14 00:19:51 UTC
Maximus Andendare wrote:
No. You guys need to get over the "8" number for the turrets. As its been said quite a few times, less turrets = less ammo and more importantly, less cap. As long as the damage is working out the same, then by all means, CCP, cut the amount of turrets for cap-using weapons.



Give me a compelling reason to buy a Navy Megathron then. Because right now, there really isn't one.

As it stands, more buffer isn't worth ~300m ISK. The extra drone DPS is situational at best.
Grunnax Aurelius
State War Academy
Caldari State
#234 - 2013-05-14 00:20:28 UTC
Tim Ryder wrote:
For the CNR. 45 extra CPU and an extra midslot. And where's the CPU to drive that extra launcher? With 2x t2 rigors, 1x t1 flare - which maybe would be t2 rigor, t2 flare, t1 flare after Odyssey - a single launcher with Weapon Upgrades V, Launcher Rigging IV takes 58.96 tf.


I think they want you to use a Co-Processor in the 5th Low Slot

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=342042&find=unread
Tim Ryder
Flippin DaBird Corporation 2
#235 - 2013-05-14 00:21:57 UTC
Grunnax Aurelius wrote:
Tim Ryder wrote:
For the CNR. 45 extra CPU and an extra midslot. And where's the CPU to drive that extra launcher? With 2x t2 rigors, 1x t1 flare - which maybe would be t2 rigor, t2 flare, t1 flare after Odyssey - a single launcher with Weapon Upgrades V, Launcher Rigging IV takes 58.96 tf.


I think they want you to use a Co-Processor in the 5th Low Slot


There's already one there, that's how tight the fit is now. Agreed I'd probably be able to finnagle something out, but definitely not happy.
Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#236 - 2013-05-14 00:23:43 UTC
MinutemanKirk wrote:
Grath Telkin wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:
MinutemanKirk wrote:
Any particular reason why you don't want to make the Dominix have 20 fitting slots like every other Navy BS? Would be kinda nice to have 8 low slots since it's a split weapon platform AND supposed to be armor tanked...


drones.

apparently drone utility negates a fitting slot for some reason.



Because drones can imitate a target painter, web, jammer, dampener, reps, or dps, so ships that specialize in high drone payloads receive one less slot.


An armor tanked ship isn't going to NEED drones for EWAR with 6 mids. As the domi only has 6 turrets, 90% of the time drones are used for DPS. As the navy variant will be keeping the turret bonus, it will promote needing to use magstabs in addition to drone damage augs thus meaning a smaller tank. As drones have expressly been stated as needing work, saying that the flexibility of drones = 1 low slot is hardly right. If that were the case the Mega would need to lose a low as it has plenty of drone options as well.


I'm not sure if anybody has bothered to tell you this yet in life, but I'll go ahead and be the first::

Just because you don't agree with something doesn't make it wrong or factually incorrect.

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#237 - 2013-05-14 00:26:35 UTC
Caljiav Ocanon wrote:



Give me a compelling reason to buy a Navy Megathron then.


No, don't buy one if you don't find it worth your money, I own two and am thinking of picking up a 3rd.

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
MinutemanKirk
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#238 - 2013-05-14 00:27:29 UTC
[quote=Grath Telkin
I'm not sure if anybody has bothered to tell you this yet in life, but I'll go ahead and be the first::

Just because you don't agree with something doesn't make it wrong or factually incorrect.
[/quote]

Har, har, funny man. I'm fairly sure this thread is for the feedback of what was proposed, which is what I gave. "Life lessons" is in the other thread
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#239 - 2013-05-14 00:28:00 UTC
Grunnax Aurelius wrote:

Oh boohoo, CNR is no longer quite as good at bashing a POS, I don't GAF, its actually more viable for PvP because of application finally. Im happy, eight launchers that apply really well.


It's actually straight up worse in PVP because it doesn't have a utility high now. It also has less overall DPS.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#240 - 2013-05-14 00:29:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Grath Telkin
MinutemanKirk wrote:
Grath Telkin wrote:

I'm not sure if anybody has bothered to tell you this yet in life, but I'll go ahead and be the first::

Just because you don't agree with something doesn't make it wrong or factually incorrect.


Har, har, funny man. I'm fairly sure this thread is for the feedback of what was proposed, which is what I gave. "Life lessons" is in the other thread


I wasn't being funny, I was being serious, just because you do not agree with their reasoning doesn't make that reasoning wrong.

Liang Nuren wrote:
Grunnax Aurelius wrote:

Oh boohoo, CNR is no longer quite as good at bashing a POS, I don't GAF, its actually more viable for PvP because of application finally. Im happy, eight launchers that apply really well.


It's actually straight up worse in PVP because it doesn't have a utility high now. It also has less overall DPS.

-Liang


I also fully disagree with Liang, the CNR looks sexy as hell now.

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.