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Player morality in EVE online. Why did you leave it at the door?

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Mag's
Azn Empire
#641 - 2011-11-03 18:21:19 UTC
ACY GTMI wrote:
Danks wrote:
ACY GTMI wrote:

People who can't make that distinction are a danger to themselves, and others, both in game and IRL.


People who can't make a distinction between a game and real life are idiots who are a danger to themselves.


I'm suggesting that, in this game, the line is blurred. I spent two years of RL time getting the ISK together to buy that ship.
The old adage applies here, don't fly what you can't afford to lose.

Also if the line is blurred for you, then that is a problem for you to deal with, not I. Blink

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
ACY GTMI
Veerhouven Group
#642 - 2011-11-03 18:29:40 UTC
Danks wrote:
ACY GTMI wrote:
Danks wrote:
ACY GTMI wrote:

People who can't make that distinction are a danger to themselves, and others, both in game and IRL.


People who can't make a distinction between a game and real life are idiots who are a danger to themselves.


I'm suggesting that, in this game, the line is blurred. I spent two years of RL time getting the ISK together to buy that ship.


I'm suggesting if you get that worked up by a damn video game maybe you should take a step back. That also goes for writing long winded diatribes about how in-game actions reflect who you are IRL like some second rate philosophy student.


I'd suggest that you take a look at yourself. I know who I am, for better or for worse.

Suppose you spent two years building a ship in a bottle and your neighbor came over and smashed it against a wall.

No. I don't see the difference.

Also, I just noticed a Providence wreck off the Uedama/Sivala gate. I doubt that he self-destructed or got Concorded.

Part of the problem is that there are no repercussions for ganking. I saw a thread today about how to regain your Concord status in a day or so so that you can do it again.

Getting back to the Providence, I spent several days trying to have some effect on the ganking in Uedama and Sivala. I got pretty nasty about BCs with low sec statuses hanging around 10-30 km off the gates. End result? Nothing. I was never able to target a ganker before Concord got them, or their support industrial. Since losing their ship was part of the plan, there was nothing legal I could do.

What option does the ganked pilot have? Play by the same rules you do? Then what's the difference between you?

If I lost every ship I had to people like you, I still wouldn't stoop to your level.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#643 - 2011-11-03 18:29:46 UTC
Handsome Hussein wrote:
Michael Holmes Holmes wrote:
The Whole "I can act how I want because it is just a game" stuff does not make much sense to me though, I have said it over and over again, I don't care if you blow up my ship and pod me, I do care if you go out of your way to be a douche about it.

So, I can gank you whenever I want so long as I don't act like an *******?

"Tears" and KMs are p ******* boring IMO, but people offer them up all the time. :shrug: I love it when they try to convo me and tell me I'm an ******* or something; I just close the window. If you get bent out of shape by losing a ship in this game you're an idiot. If it makes you feel any better, I don't even insure my Thrashers; I usually forget.

I'll admit I enjoy the fear that is inspired when I enter local in my neighborhood, even if I'm just making a run to the trade hub. Maybe I'm different, though. I have a goal and when I reach it I'll likely stop. Well, unless I get invited to help gank a botting Hulk. Now that is a worthy cause.

Christ, can't stop posting in this train-wreck...
The thing is, much like the morally righteous brigade in this thread, it's the gankee that always send the hate mail and personal insults. With many a choice word and suggestions about who I should copulate with next. Lol

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
ACY GTMI
Veerhouven Group
#644 - 2011-11-03 18:31:23 UTC
Mag's wrote:
The old adage applies here, don't fly what you can't afford to lose.
Blink


I haven't bought it yet. Big smile
Aubepine Finfleur
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#645 - 2011-11-03 18:31:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Aubepine Finfleur
Danks wrote:

I'm suggesting if you get that worked up by a damn video game maybe you should take a step back.


The problem in a nutshell:

- Some people roleplay a god-amongst-humans billionaire capsuleer, adventuring in space to amass riches. As in any roleplaying game, losing what you spent a lot of time getting, is infuriating. Especially when it happens in empire gatecamps or ganks and there are very few ways to prevent it, all of which are horribly cumbersome and revolve around alts.

- Other people sit in front of their computers, log on EvE, and gank, scam, harass, just to read someone go mad in chat, or better, on voice comms. They are not roleplaying a capsuleer, they are not even playing a videogame. They are indulging in the emotional abuse of some random unknown person. They would do it IRL, if only they had the spine.

The second category NEEDS the first to effectively roleplay and have emotional investment in the game. Otherwise they wouldn't get their kicks out of it. So asking the roleplayers to take it easy is completely stupid.
The first category will always have emotional investment in their virtual goods, because they want to roleplay.


Persistent online worlds are serious business. We mostly all play for escapism, and it's highly disturbing when people interact with you online not for escapism, but just to get a kick out of your rage, just because they have psychological issues and are cowards IRL fearing getting punched in the face should they troll people in the flesh.
Escapism is serious business because the world we live in is circling the drain, we are largely helpless to make it better and whatever solace we can find is good to have. That some people want to ruin this poetic hobby, is downright infuriating.


Disclaimer: I should add that I myself am a RL troll. I enjoy trolling the hell out of politically correct people, especially far leftists -who are the new breed of totalitarian bungholes imo-. I often get thrown out of places or punched in the face. I know all about pushing people's buttons to make them rage. But I do it in the flesh because not everybody deserves to be trolled into the ground -you have to spend some time assessing people-, and also, I'm not a goddamn pansy.

Now, you can do whatever you want in EvE. Except be a Vigilante. I've been wanting for years to correct wrongs in New Eden. It's just not possible, largely due to the alts abomination. This game caters to gankers. The only place where you can tackle them is, very sadly, on those forums.

Remove Concord, make kill rights transferable, change gateguns mechanics (introduce tracking)
Mag's
Azn Empire
#646 - 2011-11-03 18:32:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Mag's
ACY GTMI wrote:
I'd suggest that you take a look at yourself. I know who I am, for better or for worse.

Suppose you spent two years building a ship in a bottle and your neighbor came over and smashed it against a wall.

No. I don't see the difference.
Which is your problem, not ours.

Oh and the difference is you owned that ship in a bottle, but you don't own your ship in the game. One is punishable by the law and courts, the other isn't. (yes I know concord blows up the ship if suicided in high sec)

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Riedle
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#647 - 2011-11-03 18:52:15 UTC
ACY GTMI wrote:
Mag's wrote:
Being able to distinguish between reality and a game, often helps. But hey what do I know, apparently I'm shallow, fail at being a human, a troll, wildlife, have no morals, ethics and a rat bastard in RL. Oh yea and an asshat, let's not forget that. Big smile


I think the point Issler is trying to make is that suicide ganker's actions in-game, although, "Just for fun". can have a significant effect on other player's gaming experience.

As an extreme example, I have been saving for two years to buy an Anshar. If some twinkie decided to gank it, somehow, I'm not going to take it well.

Yes, I have enough ISK to replace one, but the second one would have to sit in a hanger for about a year while I put together enough ISK to replace it.

To me, the loss of an Anshar, or even a Retriever are not on the same level as "Just for fun." or "Moar tears."

People who can't make that distinction are a danger to themselves, and others, both in game and IRL.



TLDR: You blew up my internet pixels spaceship therefore you kick kittens for laughs in real life.
Danks
Fat Angry Toe Tappin Inbreds
#648 - 2011-11-03 18:52:39 UTC
ACY GTMI wrote:
Danks wrote:
ACY GTMI wrote:
Danks wrote:
ACY GTMI wrote:

People who can't make that distinction are a danger to themselves, and others, both in game and IRL.


People who can't make a distinction between a game and real life are idiots who are a danger to themselves.


I'm suggesting that, in this game, the line is blurred. I spent two years of RL time getting the ISK together to buy that ship.


I'm suggesting if you get that worked up by a damn video game maybe you should take a step back. That also goes for writing long winded diatribes about how in-game actions reflect who you are IRL like some second rate philosophy student.


I'd suggest that you take a look at yourself. I know who I am, for better or for worse.

Suppose you spent two years building a ship in a bottle and your neighbor came over and smashed it against a wall.

No. I don't see the difference.

Also, I just noticed a Providence wreck off the Uedama/Sivala gate. I doubt that he self-destructed or got Concorded.

Part of the problem is that there are no repercussions for ganking. I saw a thread today about how to regain your Concord status in a day or so so that you can do it again.

Getting back to the Providence, I spent several days trying to have some effect on the ganking in Uedama and Sivala. I got pretty nasty about BCs with low sec statuses hanging around 10-30 km off the gates. End result? Nothing. I was never able to target a ganker before Concord got them, or their support industrial. Since losing their ship was part of the plan, there was nothing legal I could do.

What option does the ganked pilot have? Play by the same rules you do? Then what's the difference between you?

If I lost every ship I had to people like you, I still wouldn't stoop to your level.


You people? People like me? My level? Dude.... clear signs you need to stop playing video games if you can't see the difference.

Also, racism. Nice man, real nice.
ACY GTMI
Veerhouven Group
#649 - 2011-11-03 19:00:02 UTC
Mag's wrote:
ACY GTMI wrote:
I'd suggest that you take a look at yourself. I know who I am, for better or for worse.

Suppose you spent two years building a ship in a bottle and your neighbor came over and smashed it against a wall.

No. I don't see the difference.
Which is your problem, not ours.

Oh and the difference is you owned that ship in a bottle, but you don't own your ship in the game. One is punishable by the law and courts, the other isn't. (yes I know concord blows up the ship if suicided in high sec)



So, you apparently play for free? Must be nice.
Alpheias
Tactical Farmers.
Pandemic Horde
#650 - 2011-11-03 19:01:10 UTC
ACY GTMI wrote:
Mag's wrote:
ACY GTMI wrote:
I'd suggest that you take a look at yourself. I know who I am, for better or for worse.

Suppose you spent two years building a ship in a bottle and your neighbor came over and smashed it against a wall.

No. I don't see the difference.
Which is your problem, not ours.

Oh and the difference is you owned that ship in a bottle, but you don't own your ship in the game. One is punishable by the law and courts, the other isn't. (yes I know concord blows up the ship if suicided in high sec)



So, you apparently play for free? Must be nice.


It's called ISK for PLEX. You too can do it.

Agent of Chaos, Sower of Discord.

Don't talk to me unless you are IQ verified and certified with three references from non-family members. Please have your certificate of authenticity on hand.
ACY GTMI
Veerhouven Group
#651 - 2011-11-03 19:01:43 UTC  |  Edited by: ACY GTMI
Danks wrote:


Also, racism. Nice man, real nice.


Racism? What have you been smoking? Is it racist to call you a person?

Nice to know that you aren't one after all.

And @ Mags, my ISK goes into my ships and equipment. You see, I have goals, and I get closer every day. What do you get out of what you do?
Jita Alt666
#652 - 2011-11-03 19:06:24 UTC
Chelone wrote:
Ambassadeur Ur-Shulgi wrote:
There is an Easy fix to peoples lack of morals in the game. Fix the bounty system. To do this CCP needs to do the following.

1. You have to apply for a bounty hunter licence, a Corp licence, making everyone in your corp a bounty hunter. Everyone in your corp needs to have positive sec status.

2. As soon as you shoot someone in low sec you get Negative standing and automaticly become wanted. Bounty corps can shoot these people anywhere and concord wont get involved they also dont lose sec status if they do so. Also if they shoot back at the bounty hunters in highsec concord responds ( this is a serious thing, locking people who kill others out of highsec) If you get a negative status you are kinda screwed untill you can turn your sec status around.

3. The victim also has the Option to Contract a bounty to a bounty corp.. making it even more lucrative to hunt the offender. when going into the bounty system ingame. Bounty hunter corps show up and can be contacted and contracted through the game placing a lucrative bounty on the offender.


#1 and #2 won't work, since pirates can just have an alt in a bounty hunter corp. Then it's no different than the current system of easy bounty abuse.

#3 could work I guess. You're kind of requiring trust of a bounty corp then... and trust and Eve don't mix too well.



Your argument with #1 and #2 apply to every corp/alliance based activity in eve. Sov can't work cause your enemies have an alt in the corp/alliance?

If the "bounty" corps are player run, and the players accept spies that is called playing Eve. A good quality corp who recruit selectively could work really well.

#2 should not have concord retaliate - If a "bounty" corp can not handle the fight they initiate that is their problem - not concords. For clarification: I'm not saying pirates should be able to start fights with bounty corps without concord intervention. I'm saying bounty corps should be able to start fights without concord intervention and concord should not intervene full stop.

I quite like this idea - I would like to see it work like the private fire fighting companies of old New York viva Gangs of New York.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#653 - 2011-11-03 19:06:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Mag's
ACY GTMI wrote:
Mag's wrote:
ACY GTMI wrote:
I'd suggest that you take a look at yourself. I know who I am, for better or for worse.

Suppose you spent two years building a ship in a bottle and your neighbor came over and smashed it against a wall.

No. I don't see the difference.
Which is your problem, not ours.

Oh and the difference is you owned that ship in a bottle, but you don't own your ship in the game. One is punishable by the law and courts, the other isn't. (yes I know concord blows up the ship if suicided in high sec)



So, you apparently play for free? Must be nice.
I play with a yearly sub on 2 accounts, but I still don't own anything on my account. You don't own anything either, no matter how you pay to play.

Edit: Also this is an option, but you still wouldn't own anything.
Alpheias wrote:
It's called ISK for PLEX. You too can do it.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Jita Alt666
#654 - 2011-11-03 19:10:05 UTC
ACY GTM wrote:
stuff and more stuff and more stuff, started out rationally and ended non rationally


CCP make the rules, CCP purposely made it so that the moral tone of space was set by players. Players play to those rules. Just like real life. Play to the call of the ref.
Danks
Fat Angry Toe Tappin Inbreds
#655 - 2011-11-03 19:17:59 UTC
ACY GTMI wrote:
Danks wrote:


Also, racism. Nice man, real nice.


Racism? What have you been smoking? Is it racist to call you a person?

Nice to know that you aren't one after all.

And @ Mags, my ISK goes into my ships and equipment. You see, I have goals, and I get closer every day. What do you get out of what you do?


I'll stoop to your level, maybe you can understand that. "People like you" should not play VIDEO GAMES because you are very obviously emotionally unfit to handle it.
Jhagiti Tyran
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#656 - 2011-11-03 19:26:49 UTC
Naran Eto wrote:
Huehuehue wrote:
Abrazzar wrote:
There are no real consequences, so there is no real morality. Games are not real. Do not confuse player behaviour with real person behaviour.


But of course you cannot seperate the two. You do not suddenly turn into another person that has no affect on your real person when you log on. Like I said, I would never ever kill a miner or missioner UNLESS they are in enemy corporation I'm in war with and thus it's part of agreed combat. And how can you say there are no real consenquenses, each player devotes his time, which is the single most valuable asset any human has to this game, and you can bet the missioneer who lost his brand new cnr because you felt the kill mail would look nice does not feel good.




What the hell's agreed about a war dec?

You war dec someone and that's it you can attack them when they're in space whether they like it or not, there's no tick box agreeing to the war (well there is mutual war, but whether it's mutual or not they have a war if you dec them like it or not want it or not).


You agreed the moment you agreed to the EULA and logged in.

Aubepine Finfleur wrote:
Those people also naively believe there are tools to either prevent that or enact revenge. While preventing those things is possible.


The tools do exist, you can use your brain and learn the methods of minimising the risk and you can use your brain to either shoot the person that killed/scammed/w/e you or hire someone else to do it, you can also be more creative and scam them back or infiltrate their corp or any number of other types of revenge.

The tools are all there, its purely the players fault if they cannot make use of them.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#657 - 2011-11-03 19:28:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Mag's
ACY GTMI wrote:
And @ Mags, my ISK goes into my ships and equipment. You see, I have goals, and I get closer every day. What do you get out of what you do?
I don't have any issues with ISK and have done most things in Eve.
I do enjoy being with friends, the pilots in the united are friends and good guys. Also expecting to get hot dropped at any moment, is a real thrill. When it happens, you never really know what the end results will be.

But at the moment I'm busy in RL and don't have much time to play. Sad

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
ACY GTMI
Veerhouven Group
#658 - 2011-11-03 19:28:09 UTC
Danks wrote:
ACY GTMI wrote:
Danks wrote:


Also, racism. Nice man, real nice.


Racism? What have you been smoking? Is it racist to call you a person?

Nice to know that you aren't one after all.



I'll stoop to your level, maybe you can understand that. "People like you" should not play VIDEO GAMES because you are very obviously emotionally unfit to handle it.


Sorry, I'll keep playing as long as I can afford, and there isn't much you can do about it.

It's pretty obvious by now that we aren't playing the same game. Just using the same server and client software.
Alpheias
Tactical Farmers.
Pandemic Horde
#659 - 2011-11-03 19:29:41 UTC
ACY GTMI wrote:
Danks wrote:
ACY GTMI wrote:
Danks wrote:


Also, racism. Nice man, real nice.


Racism? What have you been smoking? Is it racist to call you a person?

Nice to know that you aren't one after all.



I'll stoop to your level, maybe you can understand that. "People like you" should not play VIDEO GAMES because you are very obviously emotionally unfit to handle it.


Sorry, I'll keep playing as long as I can afford, and there isn't much you can do about it.

It's pretty obvious by now that we aren't playing the same game. Just using the same server and client software.


Hello Kitty Online is to your left.

Agent of Chaos, Sower of Discord.

Don't talk to me unless you are IQ verified and certified with three references from non-family members. Please have your certificate of authenticity on hand.
Jhagiti Tyran
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#660 - 2011-11-03 19:31:54 UTC
ACY GTMI wrote:
Danks wrote:
ACY GTMI wrote:
Danks wrote:


Also, racism. Nice man, real nice.


Racism? What have you been smoking? Is it racist to call you a person?

Nice to know that you aren't one after all.



I'll stoop to your level, maybe you can understand that. "People like you" should not play VIDEO GAMES because you are very obviously emotionally unfit to handle it.


Sorry, I'll keep playing as long as I can afford, and there isn't much you can do about it.

It's pretty obvious by now that we aren't playing the same game. Just using the same server and client software.


Until you lose your ship that's been your "goal" for two years, then you will probably blow a fuse and have a nervous breakdown.