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[Odyssey] Navy Battleships

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Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#161 - 2013-05-13 21:01:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Malcanis
Smoking Blunts wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:


RAVEN NAVY ISSUE
The CNR will be Caldari’s attack battleship, like the new tech 1 Raven. I wanted the Navy Raven to get something new, and the new Navy Drake pointed in a pretty good direction. We are giving the CNR an 8th launcher to make up for the loss of the rate of fire bonus, and replacing rate of fire with a bonus to explosion radius. Along with the incoming buff to cruise missiles, this ship is going to be an animal.

Caldari Battleship Skill Bonuses:
+5% bonus to Torpedo and Cruise Missile explosion radius
+10% bonus to Cruise Missile Torpedo Velocity

Slot layout: 8H, 7M(+1), 5L; 0 turrets , 8 launchers(+1)
Fittings: 12000 PWG(+1075), 780 CPU(+45)
Defense (shields / armor / hull): 10500(-750) / 8000(-1961) / 9500(-461)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate): 5900(+587.5) / 1150s(-4.875s)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 123(+29) / .12(-.008) / 97300000(-2000000) / 16.19s(-1.43s)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 75 / 100
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 75km / 105(-1.25) / 7
Sensor strength: 28 Gravimetric(+.5)
Signature radius: 410(-50)


I strongly disagree with this. You're nerfing the torp RNI in favor of the cruise variant, and go so far as to explicitly tell us you're basing the entire ship design off of cruise. Then you keep the cruise missile velocity bonus. Given that you're pigeon holing the ship into cruise, doesn't it make far more sense to trade the velocity bonus for the explosion radius bonus instead?



7 launchers, I like my utility high slot and would rather keep the rof bonus over a explosion or velocity bonus tbh


This was my preference when asked. On the other hand, with the CML buff that's coming, the new CNR will still do something like 15% more cruise missile DPS than the current one. It's hard to complain about that.

Well, it's hard to get anyone to listen, anyway.

Plus the CNR's alpha is going to be pretty brutal.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Marc McIntyre Crendraven
Brave Empire Inc.
Brave United
#162 - 2013-05-13 21:06:47 UTC
Navy Domi should be more drone focused and Navy Mega need 8 guns!!! I cannot stress enough the 8 guns part. Gallente have no 8 gun ships! It's a disgrace.

Eat Lead!!! Err....Antimatter...whatever!
Smoking Blunts
ZC Omega
#163 - 2013-05-13 21:07:14 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Smoking Blunts wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:


RAVEN NAVY ISSUE
The CNR will be Caldari’s attack battleship, like the new tech 1 Raven. I wanted the Navy Raven to get something new, and the new Navy Drake pointed in a pretty good direction. We are giving the CNR an 8th launcher to make up for the loss of the rate of fire bonus, and replacing rate of fire with a bonus to explosion radius. Along with the incoming buff to cruise missiles, this ship is going to be an animal.

Caldari Battleship Skill Bonuses:
+5% bonus to Torpedo and Cruise Missile explosion radius
+10% bonus to Cruise Missile Torpedo Velocity

Slot layout: 8H, 7M(+1), 5L; 0 turrets , 8 launchers(+1)
Fittings: 12000 PWG(+1075), 780 CPU(+45)
Defense (shields / armor / hull): 10500(-750) / 8000(-1961) / 9500(-461)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate): 5900(+587.5) / 1150s(-4.875s)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 123(+29) / .12(-.008) / 97300000(-2000000) / 16.19s(-1.43s)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 75 / 100
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 75km / 105(-1.25) / 7
Sensor strength: 28 Gravimetric(+.5)
Signature radius: 410(-50)


I strongly disagree with this. You're nerfing the torp RNI in favor of the cruise variant, and go so far as to explicitly tell us you're basing the entire ship design off of cruise. Then you keep the cruise missile velocity bonus. Given that you're pigeon holing the ship into cruise, doesn't it make far more sense to trade the velocity bonus for the explosion radius bonus instead?



7 launchers, I like my utility high slot and would rather keep the rof bonus over a explosion or velocity bonus tbh


This was my preference when asked. On the other hand, with the CML buff that's coming, the new CNR will still do something like 15 more cruise missile DPS than the current one. It's hard to complain about that.

Well, it's hard to get anyone to listen, anyway.

Plus the CNR's alpha is going to be pretty brutal.


the cnr having the same base dps as the raven isn't a good thing imo, ok I know it will be better applied in this version but forcing it to use 8 launchers instead of the 6 of the raven to get the same result is painful.

OMG when can i get a pic here
Pattern Clarc
Citeregis
#164 - 2013-05-13 21:13:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Pattern Clarc
FYI, the F-Tempest needs something like 4000 more power grid to be the armour equiv of the maelstrom, and that's before wanting to fit **** in your utility highs. Not that I care anymore, n-scorp, n-domi, f-phoon, n-raven. Waiting for the bombshell that will be the new price of all our shiney new toys.

Ex CSM member & Designer of the Tornado. Gallente - Pilot satisfaction
TheFace Asano
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#165 - 2013-05-13 21:17:53 UTC
The explosion radius bonus on the RNI is going to free up at least one rigor rig slot, giving more flexibility in rigging. The extra mid will give us a painter and plenty of space for tank, cap and a prop mod. Looking pretty positive for cruise boats as the phoon and the SNI are looking to be in a good spot (the SNI is just barely different anyway, always was close to a RNI).

The question is, however, is an "attack BS" worthwhile with t3 bc? I love my tornado, but it is pretty over powered. -1 turret on them all is probably a good idea, and the speed nerf they are getting just isn't enough.
Schmell
Russian Thunder Squad
Against ALL Authorities
#166 - 2013-05-13 21:20:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Schmell
Dat phoon Dat raven

I came

Oh btw welcome to Cruise Missiles Online: Age of Cap Warfare
Aducat Ragnarson
Blootered Bastards
#167 - 2013-05-13 21:23:30 UTC
How the hell can the same people be screaming for an 8 gun megathron and then in the same breathe complain about the megathron getting nerfed?
I would ******* LOVE a BS with 1 single gun, and a dmg bonus that gives it 7 effective turrets, that way all those lovely slots will be splattered on mids and lows and utility highs makign the ship GOD.
Mega gets 8 guns, looses its utility high, dmg bonus gets nerfed so the effective turrets stay the same -> more ammo consumtion, more cap use through guns -> less utility.
Or are you actually so daft as to demand the extra gun should just be added as is giving the mega 12.5% more dps "just because 8 guns feel better"?
You want a Mega hull with 8 guns? Get a vindi!
"Waah it's Serpentis not Gallente"
Fluff is nice, but has to take a step back if the game is to be balanced.
Great changes CCP Rise, for these and the t1 BS's.
90% of the complaints come from people viewing the changes in isolation or comparing the ships to their old version and how that version did in the old meta, thos complaints should be shoved **** into **** with **** and ****.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#168 - 2013-05-13 21:27:45 UTC
TheFace Asano wrote:
The explosion radius bonus on the RNI is going to free up at least one rigor rig slot, giving more flexibility in rigging. The extra mid will give us a painter and plenty of space for tank, cap and a prop mod.


For PvE specifically, I'd rather drop the target painter and keep the rigors (In fact I'll probably go to 2x T2 Rigor, 1x T2 Flare), because juggling the painter is annoying and :effort:

That gives 2 mids to play with, and I'm looking at a boost amp and drone mod so that I can use medium drones instead of lights to kill frigates....

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Fonac
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#169 - 2013-05-13 21:27:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Fonac
Is there any plans on the torpedo's ?
As Liang has already "proved" .. the raven is put up for being a cruise missile ship, and torpedos are still bad.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#170 - 2013-05-13 21:32:32 UTC
Smoking Blunts wrote:


the cnr having the same base dps as the raven isn't a good thing imo, ok I know it will be better applied in this version but forcing it to use 8 launchers instead of the 6 of the raven to get the same result is painful.


It's not the same result, though: it's qualitatively superior in damage application and alpha.

They'll both be equally good for shooting structures and capitals, I suppose. For anything else, the CNR will be a quantum step ahead.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#171 - 2013-05-13 21:32:32 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
TheFace Asano wrote:
The explosion radius bonus on the RNI is going to free up at least one rigor rig slot, giving more flexibility in rigging. The extra mid will give us a painter and plenty of space for tank, cap and a prop mod.


For PvE specifically, I'd rather drop the target painter and keep the rigors (In fact I'll probably go to 2x T2 Rigor, 1x T2 Flare), because juggling the painter is annoying and :effort:

That gives 2 mids to play with, and I'm looking at a boost amp and drone mod so that I can use medium drones instead of lights to kill frigates....


dont forget about a mjd for mission...

some missions have gates that are pretty far apart... being able to insta jump 100km forward will help out...

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#172 - 2013-05-13 21:35:54 UTC
Fonac wrote:
Is there any plans on working on the torpedo's ?
As Liang has already "proved" .. the raven is put up for being a cruise missile ship, and torpedos are still bad.


IMO the basic problem with torpedos is the fitting requirements for the launchers. Short range turrets have lower fitting reqs than the long range; for missiles this is reversed. I do not understand why.

Giving the CNR enough fitting space to put in 8 torp launchers would make fitting Cruise laughable. Cruise should be a little harder to fit, torps a little easier.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#173 - 2013-05-13 21:37:12 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
TheFace Asano wrote:
The explosion radius bonus on the RNI is going to free up at least one rigor rig slot, giving more flexibility in rigging. The extra mid will give us a painter and plenty of space for tank, cap and a prop mod.


For PvE specifically, I'd rather drop the target painter and keep the rigors (In fact I'll probably go to 2x T2 Rigor, 1x T2 Flare), because juggling the painter is annoying and :effort:

That gives 2 mids to play with, and I'm looking at a boost amp and drone mod so that I can use medium drones instead of lights to kill frigates....


dont forget about a mjd for mission...

some missions have gates that are pretty far apart... being able to insta jump 100km forward will help out...



The CNR is getting a pretty massive speed increase. It seems a shame to waste it.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Caljiav Ocanon
The Holy Rollers
#174 - 2013-05-13 21:38:13 UTC
8 guns for the Navythron please.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#175 - 2013-05-13 21:38:45 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Smoking Blunts wrote:


the cnr having the same base dps as the raven isn't a good thing imo, ok I know it will be better applied in this version but forcing it to use 8 launchers instead of the 6 of the raven to get the same result is painful.


It's not the same result, though: it's qualitatively superior in damage application and alpha.

They'll both be equally good for shooting structures and capitals, I suppose. For anything else, the CNR will be a quantum step ahead.


I dunno man. Stop and think about it this way. The damage application on the CNR is already good enough that people weren't clamoring to use Cruise Golems despite the dramatically superior damage application. The new bonus is extremely underwhelming and an outright nerf to the CNR.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Perihelion Olenard
#176 - 2013-05-13 21:39:43 UTC
Caljiav Ocanon wrote:
8 guns for the Navythron please.

It already got more damage from the drone bay.
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#177 - 2013-05-13 21:41:44 UTC
Fonac wrote:
Is there any plans on the torpedo's ?
As Liang has already "proved" .. the raven is put up for being a cruise missile ship, and torpedos are still bad.


torps are not bad on a raven or stealth bombers... cuss of the range bonus they get

but on a phoon... i am not sure i would use them mainly because they lack critical range to be usefull for a large weapon.

if it were up to me i would just increase flight time for torps so they can hit up to 35ish km on unbonused ships... then reduce the bonus on the stealth bombers so they dont get too much of a boost...

i would not mind a raven that can shoot torps out to 52km...

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Caljiav Ocanon
The Holy Rollers
#178 - 2013-05-13 21:44:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Caljiav Ocanon
Perihelion Olenard wrote:
Caljiav Ocanon wrote:
8 guns for the Navythron please.

It already got more damage from the drone bay.



Still needs another gun. Remove the other launcher point. Remove 25m3 of drone bay even, just make it happen.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#179 - 2013-05-13 21:44:09 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Smoking Blunts wrote:


the cnr having the same base dps as the raven isn't a good thing imo, ok I know it will be better applied in this version but forcing it to use 8 launchers instead of the 6 of the raven to get the same result is painful.


It's not the same result, though: it's qualitatively superior in damage application and alpha.

They'll both be equally good for shooting structures and capitals, I suppose. For anything else, the CNR will be a quantum step ahead.


I dunno man. Stop and think about it this way. The damage application on the CNR is already good enough that people weren't clamoring to use Cruise Golems despite the dramatically superior damage application. The new bonus is extremely underwhelming and an outright nerf to the CNR.

-Liang


Can you propose a scenario where the CNR will be worse on June 5th than it is right now?

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Maximus Andendare
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#180 - 2013-05-13 21:45:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Maximus Andendare
Pattern Clarc wrote:
FYI, the F-Tempest needs something like 4000 more power grid to be the armour equiv of the maelstrom, and that's before wanting to fit **** in your utility highs. Not that I care anymore, n-scorp, n-domi, n-phoon, n-raven. Waiting for the bombshell that will be the new price of all our shiney new toys.
It'd be nice to see the TFI buffed for use with 1400s to at least give it some flair from the T1 counterpart, considering that fitting 6x 1400s is cheaper fitting-wise than the 8x 1400s the Maels fit.
Caljiav Ocanon wrote:
Still needs another gun. Remove the two launcher points. Remove 25m3 of drone bay even, just make it happen.
No. You guys need to get over the "8" number for the turrets. As its been said quite a few times, less turrets = less ammo and more importantly, less cap. As long as the damage is working out the same, then by all means, CCP, cut the amount of turrets for cap-using weapons.

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