EVE General Discussion

I have heard this argument several times from pro-MT/NEX quislings. That basically "we already surrendered Eve's virginity with PLEX so we might as well put her out on the street charging Aurum for NeX handjobs by the bus shelter."

But I do think its the logical fallacy of one point of compromise inevitably leading to full surrender of principle and virtue.

Yes PLEX is pay to win. But its pay to win by harnessing the labour of other PLAYERS (and paying them) to gain your own in-game advantage (flashy ships and implant sets etc). In essence PLEX is YOU paying another player somewhere else in the world $15 to mine you 350-400m isk. The stuff you buy with that isk also comes from other PLAYERS.

NEX/MT stuff is creeping MT corruption of the sandbox that threatens to extend further and further into the game like a malign cancer that removes content we should have as part of our subscriptions and delivers it in the cheap and nasty cash shop.

And this is the point that a lot of the MT supporters simply refuse to see - this "hybrid model" of subscription + MT is just insulting to the intelligence and integrity of players who have grown used to getting their Eve content in exchange for a premium rate subscription. Eve is not a cheap game to play - its subscripton is high. Nobody complained years ago when the CCP management declared that it was a premium product and premium costs so subs would remain high. But people surely have a right to complain when subs remain at the current level while other content is nickel and dimed on from the cash store.

But back to your point about PLEX. Yes, Eve years ago did lose her virginity. The Management told us they desperately needed the additional revenue stream and PLEX would serve the additional function of opening up the game to players from poorer countries without stable currency, to students, to the unemployed etc - who couldn't afford the premium subs and frankly that argument is true. That is the other side of PLEX.

Eve lost her virginity but partly through charity work.

Now you are suggesting that she start turning tricks by the hour for NeX clothes and ship skins and thats alright because we acquiesed to PLEX years ago? Sorry its not the same thing. People have standards and lines of behaviour things they will do and things they will not do. There is a limit to greed also, and how much a company will get to trade on its greed before the customers will go elsewhere.These limits we saw fully demonstrated this last summer.

On your initial point : while in principle I would agree that WiS didn't have to ALL be about the MT/NEX - in practise it was. Perhaps it was fortunate that we all got to see a glimpse into the future and see what a fully MT Eve would look like? Now we know, it looks like the NeX store.

Question we need to ask ourselves on the future of Eve is do we like that NeX store icon on our station services? How are we going to feel about it when the NeX/MT gurus who survived the 20% chop at CCP start arguing for ship skins and alliance logos by NeX? Are we going to listen to the Mittani NeXt time he tells us its just "vanity" (and doesn't matter) despite the fact that ship painting/colour schemes has been a long term promise for Eve gameplay for everyone not just credulous idiots who somehow think that MT in a subs game is something good.

Blame the "industry experts" they hired that told Hilmar the players would eat up being double charged for content and would buy the $1000 jeans argument. Some people in CCP HQ were literally living in cloud cuckoo land to believe that gamers were somehow insulated from a world wracked with economic woes and financial crisis and actually cared about "defining themselves" by spending $72 on an ugly virtual monocle rather than taking their girlfriends out for a fish supper.

I applaud your commitment to content free trollness! You do the goons proud!

But currently you are only an average troll. To move past that you need to consider branding! For example I have worked on making "asshat" a standard Eve term. I for example would call you an "asshat" not only to characterize your content free trolling but to also make the concept of me calling someone like you an "asshat" as part of the Issler brand.

There is a great Zefrank video about branding you might study to help you develop your brand!

I am sure with just a little effort you can make your insanely ugly troll face into a seriously recognized brand in Eve! Maybe calling folks space barbies could be part of your brand.

For now I will focus on my brand by calling you an "asshat" for your weak efforts at trolling!

Issler

It had better not be. Regardless of how foolish some players are being about considering ship skins "vanity" (and hence ideal targets for the MT clowns) I have hope that CCP management has learned its lesson and will deliver ship skins/painting and logos etc by traditional methods within the sandbox and will not risk another storm of player discontent by trying to nickel and dime us on what has been long promised as game content for everyone.

If NeX sells ship skins this game will take another staggering lurch towards free-to-play oblivion as the subscriptions will again take a hit.

I think it's a foregone conclusion skins will be sold via the NeX (or webstore directly). I highly doubt we'll get em for free, though.

And truth be told, I'd pay real money for a Hello Kitty Kestrel skin. What's life without a little fun? And honestly, I don't care. I'm paying office rent and stuff too. If they'd let me rent a nice 3D office, I'd pay extra for that too.

Don't get me wrong: I'd rather have it for free, of course (or rather, have it included as part of my monthly subscription); but I'm fair certain this is the stuff we'll have to pay extra for, though.

Didn't say I want MT; only that it's pretty much a foregone conclusion that skins and such will be vanity items we'll have to pay extra for. So, the only question then is, will you pay for it? Personally, I haven't bought NeX clothes or anything. But they start offering ship skins, I don't see the harm in buying one or two. And why would I? It's a space game, as we're reminded of so often; so I'd be buying a spaceship skin for the spaceship game -- that's gotta be not wrong in at least a few universes. :)

Well some people think "walking in stations" does not equal "walking in stations"

They think "walking in stations" = "so much more than walking in stations"


As for the point of WIS. I think there were two. 1) hoping for some cash from the mt. 2) was to get the infrastructure to develop many other games. Games where you can smash computer avatars faces in.

But I find it hard to believe ccp thought men would like to dress up a computer avatar and walk it around looking at how other men dressed up their computer avatars.

You make some good points. I just don't see CCP giving up monetizing on virtual items any time soon, is all. For one, they haven't solidly bid the NeX store farewell yet. It's just sitting there, waiting to be filled with... something. I just fear we'll get either no ship skins/paint jobs, etc, or we'll have to pay extra for it. We'll see. Would be nice, though, if history proves you right.

Here is an example of someone twisting my statements around and portraying them out of context. Not to mention the entire post is off-topic. They spent a lot of time searching and grouping together single sentences from various posted replies in an attempt to discredit and portray me as the bad guy.

Omitting the core subject matter of my various posted replies made in response to statements directed towards me by other players shows how someone can manipulate and change a thread. Maybe their intention is to derail this thread and escalate a forum flame war. Usually whenever someone personally singles me out with negative replies, I'll respond likewise.

I could also search through this thread and group together all of that players negative statements in a posted reply. I could also report them as well as other posted replies and have them edited and or removed.

But that would only continue to escalate this forum flame war and help derail this thread. I have better things to do, mainly go in-game and do some FiS.

Yea about cutting out labor from the economy part. I've given it some thought before, now what if gold ammo was sold in the form of BPCs?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating MT, actually I don't really care about MT if it is vanity only. I'm interested in WiS.


I believe what you saw in trailer regarding Ambulation was build on a completely different engine, and that was all trashed, in favor of Carbon. So, no I won't go so far as to say features were cut out in favor of MT, but rather Incarna was incomplete at launch, god they only had 1 CQ out of 4 races, how pathetic was that?