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PLEX prices to CHANGE!
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Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#21 - 2013-05-13 04:29:41 UTC
Short term this will spike PLEX. My two accounts both have characters that could use this for short-term science/production training (Advanced Lab Operation 3 or 4, Science 5, maybe also Production Efficiency 5 and Advanced Mass Production 3 or 4).

Long term I think the effect will be minimal, as people will still generally prefer an alt on a second account to a dual trained account. Being able to log two characters in at once is significant, it means you have someone else you can absolutely trust.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#22 - 2013-05-13 21:19:35 UTC
Before you go off speculating on the PLEX, consider how many accounts will go dormant once huge multiboxed ice mining fleets are no longer viable.

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Manny Moons
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#23 - 2013-05-14 00:13:31 UTC
But wait - CCP controls PLEX market prices through market intervention. Or at least that's what I heard somewhere.
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#24 - 2013-05-14 00:32:40 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
Manny Moons wrote:
But wait - CCP controls PLEX market prices through market intervention. Or at least that's what I heard somewhere.


only in unforseen and/or extreme cases. for example, if the goons decided to buy every plex in the game

*Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal

, some more would magically appear on the market at reasonable prices.

I should buy an Ishtar.
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#25 - 2013-05-14 15:37:39 UTC
Manny Moons wrote:
But wait - CCP controls PLEX market prices through market intervention. Or at least that's what I heard somewhere.


This was discussed at Fanfest. So far they have done it once. Last year there was a PLEX price spike to around 660 mil. CCP took 200 PLEX from perma-banned accounts and sold them. A few observations:

It was only 200 PLEX, yet it controlled a market instability.
CCP did not create anything, those PLEX had already been created by player actions.
CCP said they do not have a price target for the PLEX that triggers intervention. What the trigger is is market instability. They can see the total supply of PLEX in the market all over Eve and how its evolving with time to see potential instabilities.
CCP also said they have far more PLEX available to do this than they foresee ever needing.

Know a Frozen fan? Check this out

Frozen fanfiction
Manny Moons
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2013-05-14 21:32:14 UTC
Usually they try to manage PLEX prices by offering discount promotions. Look, there's one now!
Danni stark
#27 - 2013-05-14 22:14:51 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
Before you go off speculating on the PLEX, consider how many accounts will go dormant once huge multiboxed ice mining fleets are no longer viable.


they're still perfectly viable, in fact, they're even more viable now to ensure the ice respawns sooner (4hrs is fixed once the site is emptied, but you have to empty it first. more accounts, sooner you empty it) and more accounts mean you deny more ore to competitors as you mine it yourself quicker than they will.

Ice Mining Skill Plan.
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#28 - 2013-05-15 16:12:11 UTC
Danni stark wrote:
Vincent Athena wrote:
Before you go off speculating on the PLEX, consider how many accounts will go dormant once huge multiboxed ice mining fleets are no longer viable.


they're still perfectly viable, in fact, they're even more viable now to ensure the ice respawns sooner (4hrs is fixed once the site is emptied, but you have to empty it first. more accounts, sooner you empty it) and more accounts mean you deny more ore to competitors as you mine it yourself quicker than they will.


We need to do the math.

Right now any given ice harvesting account needs to harvest for about 3 hours a day to pay for the account via PLEX. As your goal is to make ISK for other activities say you want 4 hours. After the change that will drop to 2 hours due to the increase in harvesting rate, and maybe to 90 minutes due to price increase.

So lets say you hit a belt with 80 ships. that is sufficient to clear it in 15 minutes. To get your 90 minutes of mining you would need 6 spawns. But with a 4 hour re-spawn that cannot happen.

So yes with no sleep and no contesting for the site you could just barely pay for all the accounts, but not make extra ISK.

In reality, with reasonable play time, each ice belt can only support 30 or so miners, spread out over the day. The rest will be on suspended accounts. There simply will not be sufficient ice in high sec to support all the current harvesting accounts.

I'm predicting the remaining ice miners will end up becoming a few huge locust fleets, flying from system to system to clear each spawn before flying to the next. This will be easy in all space but Amarr. For some reason there are no clusters of systems with ice in Amarr space, while there are in everyone else's space.

I proposed to CCP that the re-spawn timer should start when the first ship warps into the anomaly, not when the site is cleared. Then the re-spawn happens either when the field is cleared or the timer expires, whichever happens last.

Know a Frozen fan? Check this out

Frozen fanfiction
Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
#29 - 2013-05-15 21:15:08 UTC
I really see no point to this. if you are willing to pay basically full subscription price to train a second character, why not have them on a separate account? You gain the benefit of being able to log both on at the same time.

The only advantage I can see to this is if you want to train up an alt, you save the character transfer fee from moving them to your main account. If you stop PLEXing the alt, you can still play them as the account is active, but not train them without stopping training on your alt. So i guess it does fill a small niche.

I just don't see this generating enough of a demand to affect PLEX prices. The speculation will affect the price more than the change itself. But that is true of almost every major change EVE has seen in the last few years.
Verkashi Ralas
Doomheim
#30 - 2013-05-17 17:42:13 UTC
I'm completely new to the marketing side of EVE, but I have been watching various prices and taking notes. Plex's have dropped a decent amount today vs. yesterday -- fallout from the anouncement? Why would a plex price drop rather than rise (on a gradual curve) if there is a dual training ability? Has this long-term projected devaluated the Plex to a degree?
Airto TLA
Acorn's Wonder Bars
#31 - 2013-05-17 18:43:19 UTC
Bugsy VanHalen wrote:
I really see no point to this. if you are willing to pay basically full subscription price to train a second character, why not have them on a separate account? You gain the benefit of being able to log both on at the same time.

The only advantage I can see to this is if you want to train up an alt, you save the character transfer fee from moving them to your main account. If you stop PLEXing the alt, you can still play them as the account is active, but not train them without stopping training on your alt. So i guess it does fill a small niche.

I just don't see this generating enough of a demand to affect PLEX prices. The speculation will affect the price more than the change itself. But that is true of almost every major change EVE has seen in the last few years.


Isee two reasons to use this feature, dropping a 20-30 day skill plan alt in place on an existing account where it is not needed to be logged in except occasionally, Second would be where you "finished" and alt tranfered it to a permanent account and CCP changed the rules (or the Meta game changed) on you and you need some more skills to function
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#32 - 2013-05-17 19:15:06 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
Manny Moons wrote:
But wait - CCP controls PLEX market prices through market intervention. Or at least that's what I heard somewhere.


This was discussed at Fanfest. So far they have done it once. Last year there was a PLEX price spike to around 660 mil. CCP took 200 PLEX from perma-banned accounts and sold them. A few observations:

It was only 200 PLEX, yet it controlled a market instability.
.


Go back & re listen. you are off by a factor of 10. Dr E injected 2,000 PLEXes from his banned PLEX account for the intervention.
So the bank may hold around 8k now ( maybe more with added PLEX from account bans since CCP Scregs was on a tear rom the past year )
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
Alex Grison
Grison Universal
#33 - 2013-05-17 20:15:45 UTC
I don't see how this will have an affect on plex anymore than using plex to run a separate account. Its pretty much the same thing for all intents and purposes.

New Account ( been around forever ) = 1 plex per month for dual skill training

Dual Train on same account = 1 plex per month.

yes
Dood Toon
Liberate to te Me
#34 - 2013-05-17 20:40:15 UTC
Alex Grison wrote:
I don't see how this will have an affect on plex anymore than using plex to run a separate account. Its pretty much the same thing for all intents and purposes.

New Account ( been around forever ) = 1 plex per month for dual skill training

Dual Train on same account = 1 plex per month.


have you actually read the thread?? this has been pointed out, and commented about 100 times now, sherlock.
CEO Lator
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#35 - 2013-06-09 15:22:18 UTC
I just recently returned to the game, and came across the "Dual Character Training". At first glance that seemed to be a good idea, but upon further investigation I ran into some issues. I hope you guys can clear those up for me.

1. If I subscribe for an EVE account I pay $14.95 on a monthly basis.
2. Activating "Dual Character Training" requires me to buy a plex, which are currently offered by CCP for $19.95 for 30 days.


That does not make any sense to me. What is whith the price difference? I might as well just get a second account for another $14.95, and that would safe me $5 each month. I do not understand that! What am I missing?

I think the price for the Dual Character Training needs to come down to at least $9.99, otherwise there is not really a good reason for it. ( I understand that people buy PLEX to sell them in-game for ISK.)

Please feel free to comment.

Thanks.
Nyancat Audeles
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#36 - 2013-06-09 15:27:33 UTC
CEO Lator wrote:
I just recently returned to the game, and came across the "Dual Character Training". At first glance that seemed to be a good idea, but upon further investigation I ran into some issues. I hope you guys can clear those up for me.

1. If I subscribe for an EVE account I pay $14.95 on a monthly basis.
2. Activating "Dual Character Training" requires me to buy a plex, which are currently offered by CCP for $19.95 for 30 days.


That does not make any sense to me. What is whith the price difference? I might as well just get a second account for another $14.95, and that would safe me $5 each month. I do not understand that! What am I missing?

I think the price for the Dual Character Training needs to come down to at least $9.99, otherwise there is not really a good reason for it. ( I understand that people buy PLEX to sell them in-game for ISK.)

Please feel free to comment.

Thanks.

This has been said countless times...

Whereas a second account would require you to pay for as long as you want it to be active, Dual Character Training means you only have to plex the second char for as long as you need to train it, but you can use it as long as your account is active.
CEO Lator
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#37 - 2013-06-09 15:41:35 UTC
Nyancat Audeles wrote:

This has been said countless times...

Whereas a second account would require you to pay for as long as you want it to be active, Dual Character Training means you only have to plex the second char for as long as you need to train it, but you can use it as long as your account is active.


Thanks for the clarification.
Nyancat Audeles
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#38 - 2013-06-09 17:07:08 UTC
CEO Lator wrote:
Nyancat Audeles wrote:

This has been said countless times...

Whereas a second account would require you to pay for as long as you want it to be active, Dual Character Training means you only have to plex the second char for as long as you need to train it, but you can use it as long as your account is active.


Thanks for the clarification.

No problem. I wish CCP made this clearer, because at first, I didn't understand it...
Joan Greywind
The Lazy Crabs
#39 - 2013-06-10 06:22:13 UTC
Nyancat Audeles wrote:
CEO Lator wrote:
Nyancat Audeles wrote:

This has been said countless times...

Whereas a second account would require you to pay for as long as you want it to be active, Dual Character Training means you only have to plex the second char for as long as you need to train it, but you can use it as long as your account is active.


Thanks for the clarification.

No problem. I wish CCP made this clearer, because at first, I didn't understand it...



Examples include manufacturing and invention characters, market alts, cyno alts to set up a chain and pi characters. More options are never bad, CCP is not forcing you to use it. That is why I don't understand what the whining is about, it is just an option, you don't like it just don't use it. Clarification isn't really needed because the people that are going to use this already know the inherent benefits.
HalfArse
Wixo Trading Co.
#40 - 2013-06-10 11:50:13 UTC
I may have missed something but isnt having a second account a hell of a lot better than training two on the same account?

RL cost of plex is £17. cost of a full account is £10 a month. If you use isk instead to buy plex they cost the same.

why on earth would anyone ever use this feature?
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