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Midular shooter identified, appears in court
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Seriphyn Inhonores
Elusenian Cooperative
#61 - 2013-05-12 19:01:01 UTC
Caellach Marellus wrote:
But that's how you view alliances? One side refuses to give you what you want so you run crying into the arms of the first people to sweet talk you with promises and fair words?


The level of stupidity among people these last few weeks has known no bounds, it's like you want to torch the bridges intentionally.


Ha...
Shintoko Akahoshi
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#62 - 2013-05-12 19:28:00 UTC
Tootenh'amon wrote:
Possibly, but the State and the Republic have one thing in common- the desire for freedom and independence. Funny how the Gallenteans keep shouting freedom left right and center, yet they never had to actually fight for it.


Anyone who's not Caldari or Gallente - especially anyone whose ancestors weren't warmed by the light of Luminaire - can't possibly understand the conflict between the State and the Federation, nor the feelings of those of us who are working towards its eventual resolution.

See? Anyone can make that sort of argument. Dumb, isn't it?

But what do I know. I'm just a Gallentean, right?

Bio and writing

(Nothing I say is indicative of corporate policy unless otherwise stated)
Fox Frijmann
La Dolce Vita
#63 - 2013-05-12 19:40:06 UTC
The Republic is greatly in debt to the Gallente Federation, culturally, financially, and otherwise. As bad as conditions have been within Republic borders it would have only been much worse without Gallentean corporate and Federal backing after our Rebellion. The Republic stagnates under current leadership, and so many of us chose to live as immigrants to the Federation, who have for the most part been only welcoming.

I can see how some might resent this, but they have no constructive solutions of their own.

I feel we can and should trust the due process of the Gallentean system, within whose borders this crime took place. While not perfect they are fair and just with hundreds of years as a free society to get it right. The social safety net here and abundant charity assures that everyone can get the basics of food, clothes, and a decent education, and there are always jobs for anyone willing to work hard.

Back home there is starvation, privation, hopelessness. In many systems people look to criminal pirate cartels like the Serpentis and Angels who exploit them terribly but are better organized than the government and provide necessities they would otherwise do without.

As ethnic Matari immigrants we chose to live here in the Federation, and Karin travelled knowing the risk anyone of her stature faces when going abroad. It could have happened anywhere. And politics being what it is, there could even be an Amarrian hand ultimately behind it. It would not surprise me as they are well known for playing the long game. Their leaders live for hundreds of years.

If the Sebiestor Tribe leadership and Parliaiment continues as they have been lately then it only justifies the (false) views that we truly are little more than the savages the Amarrians claim we are. They should butt out. Across the border, the Republic leadership holds no claim to our lives. And they bring nothing but shame to the legacy of Karin Midular.

These recent Tribal and Republican hysterics are not what Karin Midular stood for. If we truly wish to honor her and her memory, then they should back down and be patient and let justice be done with deliberation and the due process guaranteed to everyone in the Federation. And maybe watch and learn while they are at it.
Caellach Marellus
Stormcrows
#64 - 2013-05-12 20:25:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Caellach Marellus
Tootenh'amon wrote:
Caellach Marellus wrote:
Anabella Rella wrote:
Just give up Elsebeth. There's no point in trying to have a discussion with those whose minds are already made up.


But that's how you view alliances? One side refuses to give you what you want so you run crying into the arms of the first people to sweet talk you with promises and fair words?



So that's how You view alliances? Denying the other party anything because you're in a better position and your ally "has to learn his place"?


I don't think they've denied the Republic anything the Republic has had a right to. Just because you kick up a fuss doesn't mean you're entitled to anything.

Nor has anyone said they have to "learn their place" if you're going to quote people in an attempt to further stir up trouble, at least be accurate.

Seriphyn Inhonores wrote:


Ha...


Glad to see you're amused Inhonores, care to share the joke?

When your gut instincts tell you something is wrong, trust them. When your heart tells you something is right, ignore it, check with your brain first. Accept nothing, challenge everything.
Jelani Akinyemi Affonso
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#65 - 2013-05-12 20:28:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Jelani Akinyemi Affonso
Fredfredbug4 wrote:
So many Republican tears.

Perhaps we would allow you to have a say in this trial if you didn't invade our country hmm?

Nonetheless, justice will be delivered. However, this is a huge stain on Mentas Blaque's political career. Someone with similar beliefs as him is now standing in front of a court for mass murder. This is a good thing of course, the more we can discredit Mentas Blaque, the less likely we are to turn into a totalitarian regime.

I hope the Republic will remember this. Us going forth with the trial after their defeat at Colelie could not be a more humiliating punishment for their heinous crimes against the Federation.

Hmmm, speaking of crimes, Shakor is probably the next person who should stand trial. Colelie was like what, the fourth or fifth 5th time he breached the Yulai Convention? Clearly his government is not fond of honoring a century old agreement.



Funny your ignorance even now still shows.

For your information, it was the tribal council who ordered the RF into Colelie. Your government did something really amazing . They disrespected the Republic so much, that the whole tribal council felt the need to make a statement!

But you can keep up being an hypocrite and ignorant just like most of your fellow gallenteans, as always.
James Syagrius
Luminaire Sovereign Solutions
#66 - 2013-05-12 20:38:24 UTC  |  Edited by: James Syagrius
Julianus Soter wrote:
Elsebeth Rhiannon wrote:
Bastian Valoron wrote:
Since keeping the identity of this man from the public has already cost more lives than what he ever alone could have taken, and jeopardized the strategic and diplomatic interests of the Federation, I hope this nonsense will now swiftly be brought to a resolution which is satisfactory to all involved parties.

It should also be investigated whether the withholding of the assailant's identity for "technical reasons" has been a severe misjudgment or an intentional plot. The authorities behind the relevant decisions should be interrogated, their backgrounds should be checked, and if nothing is found, they should be fired for incompetence.


Yes.


That is precisely why the Villore Accords has taken the stance it has.

It always astonishes me how many self haters arise out of the Federation.

So I am sure all you justice seekers and truth tellers will agree that a similar investigation should occur in the former Republic.

One to determine exactly who ordered the murder of all those Federal service personnel in Colelie.

“Here also are the heralds of his praise."
Fredfredbug4
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#67 - 2013-05-12 20:53:54 UTC
Jelani Akinyemi Affonso wrote:
NO U!!!!!.



There, I modified your argument which is quite similar to all of the other Republican arguments. So to which I will make my rebuttal

*Ehem*

... NO U!!!!!!!

Watch_ Fred Fred Frederation_ and stop [u]cryptozoologist[/u]! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it!
Fredfredbug4
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#68 - 2013-05-12 21:12:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Fredfredbug4
Anabella Rella wrote:


Oh well. The Caldari seem to want better relations with the Republic. Perhaps we should investigate that possibility, Heth's self-serving statements notwithstanding.


Great idea, partner up with the Caldari who recently took massive military losses and is one spark away from civil war.

Oh! And don't forget that such an alliance would force the Amarr, the largest and one of the most powerful nations of New Eden, to team up with us, the second largest and equally as powerful.

Watch_ Fred Fred Frederation_ and stop [u]cryptozoologist[/u]! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it!
Utremi Fasolasi
La Dolce Vita
#69 - 2013-05-12 21:32:49 UTC
Fredfredbug4 wrote:


Oh! And don't forget that such an alliance would force the Amarr, the largest and one of the most powerful nations of New Eden, to team up with us, the second largest and equally as powerful.


Eh.. no.

If anything like Fox above intimates this would fit more into an Amarrian conspiracy to split the Republic from the Federation, divide and conquer.

We would never form an alliance with slavers.
Jelani Akinyemi Affonso
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#70 - 2013-05-12 21:45:21 UTC
James Syagrius wrote:
Julianus Soter wrote:
Elsebeth Rhiannon wrote:
Bastian Valoron wrote:
Since keeping the identity of this man from the public has already cost more lives than what he ever alone could have taken, and jeopardized the strategic and diplomatic interests of the Federation, I hope this nonsense will now swiftly be brought to a resolution which is satisfactory to all involved parties.

It should also be investigated whether the withholding of the assailant's identity for "technical reasons" has been a severe misjudgment or an intentional plot. The authorities behind the relevant decisions should be interrogated, their backgrounds should be checked, and if nothing is found, they should be fired for incompetence.


Yes.


That is precisely why the Villore Accords has taken the stance it has.

It always astonishes me how many self haters arise out of the Federation.

So I am sure all you justice seekers and truth tellers will agree that a similar investigation should occur in the former Republic.

One to determine exactly who ordered the murder of all those Federal service personnel in Colelie.



I'll leave this here for you: http://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels/world-news/republic-fleet-force-destroyed-entering-federation-despite-capsuleer-pleas-for-peace/

Beginning of the second paragraph, if you are interested. It clearly states the "Tribal Council" ordered such action. We have already taken the first step, when can we expect for your nation to do the same. Unlike you, we do not mind "sharing" information and letting you know upfront about our actions.

We also we no reasons to be cowards nor deceiving about our actions either. We also most certainly do not require to hide important information pertaining to the both of us behind the veiled of "National Security".

But I would not have any high hopes about the members of the Tribal Council being fired though. Just to let you know, before you and your fellow Gallenteans start spouting nonsense about Shakor or Shakorites. Let me remind you once again, it was the Tribal Council as a whole who ordered the Republic Fleet into colelie. This means ,for you ignorant fools hereabout, that the Republic as a sovereign state acted as a whole, regardless and knowing full well of the consequences. This should really tell you something about the road which we both are traveling on.

Last and final, before you go back to your ignorance, please sit down and think. Do not just sit in your little CQ, surround by your ignorance and blame just one man or a group of of people for it (ie. Shakor or his supporters) for the failure of the alliance or friendship. Our relationship is far more complex, and the problems of the relationship is even deeper then that. But this is another subject entirely. If we are going to stop being allies, then we should at least know the reasons why. So if ever need to remain friends or rebuild our friendship and alliance, we can and know how to avoid such pitfalls in the future.

In my opinion, I do not agree with the way the Tribal Council acted. There were many other avenues to let the Gallentee know about the seriousness of the situation. We could have kick out their ambassadors, stop trading with them and simply declare to their face that we no longer view them as allies and a reset was due. There was no reason to send in those Naglfars. But what is done is done, when push come to shove, I will defend the Republic.

But then again, I was not in any of the meetings when the diplomatic between both states were taking place. Therefore, I do not know what was said as to **** off the Tribal Council so much to cause them to respond like that. Somewhere in my head, something is nagging me though. Maybe whoever was in charge of the diplomatic talks between the Republic and the Federation was a lot like the Federation admiral of that fateful day, just a thought. This is entirely my opinion though.
Jelani Akinyemi Affonso
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#71 - 2013-05-12 21:49:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Jelani Akinyemi Affonso
Fredfredbug4 wrote:
Anabella Rella wrote:


Oh well. The Caldari seem to want better relations with the Republic. Perhaps we should investigate that possibility, Heth's self-serving statements notwithstanding.


Great idea, partner up with the Caldari who recently took massive military losses and is one spark away from civil war.

Oh! And don't forget that such an alliance would force the Amarr, the largest and one of the most powerful nations of New Eden, to team up with us, the second largest and equally as powerful.


LMAO!!!

So says the guy who supports Freedom and all that comes along with it!

That was truly revealing of you Fred!

By the way, what about the many mataries living in the Federation, Fred. Let me guess!

*coughs*

"Sold into slavery"
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
#72 - 2013-05-13 00:23:38 UTC
Darius Shakor wrote:
Embarrassed by the factions within your perfect society that seek to attack other cultures within your borders?


Funny you should mention that... the name Abel Jarek ring any bells?

http://youtu.be/t0q2F8NsYQ0
Fredfredbug4
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#73 - 2013-05-13 01:24:04 UTC
Utremi Fasolasi wrote:


Eh.. no.

If anything like Fox above intimates this would fit more into an Amarrian conspiracy to split the Republic from the Federation, divide and conquer.

We would never form an alliance with slavers.


You'd be surprised. We've actually had quite a number of mutually beneficial deals with the Amarr, even if it was just to keep us from shooting at each other.

Put it this way, if the State and Republic start working together. The Empire and Federation will have to make due with each other for a short time.

If **** hits the fan, neither of us will care about what the other believes until the threat is dealt with.

Look at what happened when Sansha's Nation showed up again, everyone became temporary allies with each other. Time and time again you will find that all you need is a common enemy to bring people together.

Jelani Akinyemi Affonso wrote:


NO U!!!!!!


Oh, you again.

NO U!!!!!!!!

Watch_ Fred Fred Frederation_ and stop [u]cryptozoologist[/u]! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it!
James Syagrius
Luminaire Sovereign Solutions
#74 - 2013-05-13 02:09:30 UTC
Jelani Akinyemi Affonso wrote:

Beginning of the second paragraph, if you are interested. It clearly states the "Tribal Council" ordered such action.

Let me remind you once again, it was the Tribal Council as a whole who ordered the Republic Fleet into colelie. This means ,for you ignorant fools hereabout, that the Republic as a sovereign state acted as a whole, regardless and knowing full well of the consequences. This should really tell you something about the road which we both are traveling on.

If we are going to stop being allies, then we should at least know the reasons why. So if ever need to remain friends or rebuild our friendship and alliance, we can and know how to avoid such pitfalls in the future.

Oh I think we “ignorant fools” know the reasons.

By your own admission the Tribal Council, which is what passes for a government in the former Republic, with malice of forethought made the determination to invade the Federation.

As to the future, now we know with what regard and affection you and yours hold the Federation.

You are my enemy, and I am most certainly yours.

“Here also are the heralds of his praise."
Katrina Oniseki
Oniseki-Raata Internal Watch
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#75 - 2013-05-13 02:23:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Katrina Oniseki
Anabella Rella wrote:
Just give up Elsebeth. There's no point in trying to have a discussion with those whose minds are already made up.

It's clear that there's blame to be placed on both sides in this dispute, however, it seems the Gallente aren't willing to accept their share.

Oh well. The Caldari seem to want better relations with the Republic. Perhaps we should investigate that possibility, Heth's self-serving statements notwithstanding.



We've already been down this road roughly a year ago, or don't you remember?

Ishuk-Raata approached the Republic with an offer of trade. We offered it without demanding you sever ties with the Federation. We offered it without demanding you cease fighting the Amarr. We offered it in the spirit of mutual benefit.

We were summarily rejected on all approaches based on multiple criteria. You yourself, Anabella Rella, had been one of the most vocal opponents of any sort of cooperation with us. Now that the Federation has snubbed you, you suddenly change your tone and wonder what it might be like to have taken us up on our offer?

You could have already had this sort of relationship with the Caldari. You could have been partners in business with us long ago. You could have forged the way ahead by considering the powerful statement that Electus Matari and Ishuk-Raata joined in mutual trade could have meant.

You chose not to.

ADDENDUM: After review of the thread in question, I have found that Anabella Rella was not an active participant in the discussions there. Perhaps I am remembering her from other times she has decided to less than constructively post in Ishuk-Raata and Caldari threads. Nevertheless, I withdraw that point from my post.

Katrina Oniseki
Jelani Akinyemi Affonso
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#76 - 2013-05-13 02:24:58 UTC
The senate and your president actions say otherwise.

Quote
"The Gallente Senate has called an emergency session to discuss the breach of the border and hostile action by the Republic Fleet. President Jacus Roden has issued a statement saying, “The Federation is committed to peace and we will take every step necessary to preserve it.”

If the Federation wanted war , they would have chosen war when it came knocking on their door.

So please, go back to your cubicle captain James Syagrius.
Kytre Aurgnet
Better Hide R Die EVE
#77 - 2013-05-13 02:46:57 UTC
Looking for a peaceful solution is always the best course of action. Is it not what Midular was known for in the political arena after all, trying to promote peace between enemies?

However, if the Republic is so hell-bent on starting a war, so forgetful of what the woman they say they fight for did in life, they will get it. Continue to attack, continue to invade, continue to ignore attempts at peace...you will get your war, and if the latest battle is any indication, you may not really want it.
And if they go crawling to the Caldari for aid...they will have much to worry about; far more than if they stood alone. I may not like the idea of an alliance with the Amarr, but if the times call for it then so be it.
Jelani Akinyemi Affonso
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#78 - 2013-05-13 03:13:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Jelani Akinyemi Affonso
Let me be clear, as I already stated.

I did not agree with what the Tribal Council did but since we are at this cross road , I obviously am going to support my kin. I clearly stated some other routes they could have taken instead in one of my earlier post.

But let's be clear, all of this could have being avoided if the Federation has simply kept the Republic inform. But the Federation stated they did not trust us with information , as if we could not being trusted. The Federation treated the Republic at best as an neutral entity and at worst as an enemy , not as an ally or friend.

Yet I am shock to see so many Gallenteans are shocked when the Republic acted as as such. You chose your own poison.

Please be my guess, join the Amarrians. I rather be a friend to a Caldari any day of the week then to be one with an Amarrian. I am sure the Caldari will be many times more trusworthy then the Amarr. Well at least, they will be the lesser of the two evils.

Also, do try to talk to your fellow friends "the Amarr" with the same demeaning tone as you do while talking to us. Also please do try telling them that there beliefs and ideals are wrong. Finally, when a major Amarr official or Amarr Holder is assassinated in your lands, since your security services as surely amazing, please do tell them the same BS** that you have being telling us.

Oh and finally, please go ahead and declare war on us when the Amarr empire require you to do so, as proof of your friendship. But you probably will have to do something about that big population of Minmantars living in the Gallentee though.


Oh and by the way watch your back, the Amarrs have this belief called Reclamation, sure you heard of it.
In the past the Amarrs have supported slave raid into the Federation.

http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Slavery

Quote
"During the early years of contact between the Federation and Empire, several slave raids were conducted on the Federation's citizens"


I am sure you guys will have such an amazing time together.
We will be on the sideline watching you. Good luck!
Julianus Soter
Blades of Liberty
#79 - 2013-05-13 03:53:15 UTC
Mr. Affonso, I assure you, should any break in status of relations with the Minmatar occur, the blame will entirely rest with our present Administration.

An Administration which can only be categorized as one of two things: dangerously incompetent, or horrifically misguided.

Moira. Corporation CEO, Executor, Villore Accords, @Julianus_Soter https://zkillboard.com/alliance/99001634/
Svetlana Scarlet
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
#80 - 2013-05-13 04:18:58 UTC
I am not sure if I should be more amused at the Gallente arrogance or Minmatar indignation in this particular case.