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So I was an idiot and started a duel (enjoy my sweet sweet tears)
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baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#61 - 2013-05-12 22:50:04 UTC
Private Pineapple wrote:


There is only one warning. The dialog box is the only one I know of. But either ways, my modification does not add any warnings at all. It adds information to let the user make better decisions as to what he wants to do.



1st warning: Limited engagement.

2nd warning: No concord intervention.
Private Pineapple
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#62 - 2013-05-12 22:57:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Private Pineapple
baltec1 wrote:
Private Pineapple wrote:


There is only one warning. The dialog box is the only one I know of. But either ways, my modification does not add any warnings at all. It adds information to let the user make better decisions as to what he wants to do.



1st warning: Limited engagement.

2nd warning: No concord intervention.


The warning is the dialog box. Your "1st warning" and "2nd warning" are simply pieces of information, not warnings. But I'll play with you. If I assumed those are both warnings, then I would respond this way:

Limited Engagement: not clarified anywhere in the game and must be researched outside of the game (IGB also constitutes "outside of the game"). It should be clarified inside the game. But most people would already take it at face value and go "oh, so its like a 1v1 duel. okay." but would most likely not consider that podding is also allowed. They would have to look elsewhere to find that information -- which is not enough for your argument. This means the user is making bad decisions because the information is not there.

Concord intervention: same thing as limited engagement, so really this is a redundant 2nd warning. There is no second warning in this case.

I am still waiting for good reasons to NOT add in this edit. It does not hurt you and it only takes a couple minutes. Why are you still arguing about this?

.
Lady Areola Fappington
#63 - 2013-05-12 23:01:47 UTC
I'll give this much, the term "limited engagement" is kind of misleading. It implies that there's some sort of limitation between two parties in combat....like, no podding.

I honestly have no clue of a better way to phrase what's happening, though. Just dropping the "limited" part would likely help. Call it a "pilot engagement" and leave it there.

7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided. --Eve New Player Guide
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#64 - 2013-05-12 23:02:53 UTC
"Direct hostilities."

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Private Pineapple
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#65 - 2013-05-12 23:03:21 UTC
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:
I'll give this much, the term "limited engagement" is kind of misleading. It implies that there's some sort of limitation between two parties in combat....like, no podding.

I honestly have no clue of a better way to phrase what's happening, though. Just dropping the "limited" part would likely help. Call it a "pilot engagement" and leave it there.


"Timed engagement" would accurately describe it better than "Limited Engagement", but not clarify that it does not stop at ship destruction. An edit similar to this one would be perfect for that shortcoming.

.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#66 - 2013-05-12 23:11:05 UTC
Private Pineapple wrote:



I am still waiting for good reasons to NOT add in this edit. It does not hurt you and it only takes a couple minutes. Why are you still arguing about this?


Because you have no case for adding it.

We already have warning in place that most of us understood months ago when CCP punkturis uttered the words limited engagement. The people who dont understand only have themselves to blame and anyone who falls for it a second time cannot be helped. The automatic responce when you lose your pod is to get of grid as fast as possible anyway, sticking around is just asking for trouble.
Galaxy Pig
New Order Logistics
CODE.
#67 - 2013-05-12 23:13:33 UTC
Who's the carebear douche going around telling noobs to put hundreds of millions of ISK into their brains?

Highsec is owned by players now. Systems 0.5-1.0 are New Order Territory. All miners and other residents of Highsec must obey The Code. Mining without a permit is dangerous and harmful to the EVE community. See www.MinerBumping.com
Private Pineapple
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#68 - 2013-05-12 23:15:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Private Pineapple
baltec1 wrote:
Private Pineapple wrote:



I am still waiting for good reasons to NOT add in this edit. It does not hurt you and it only takes a couple minutes. Why are you still arguing about this?


Because you have no case for adding it.

We already have warning in place that most of us understood months ago when CCP punkturis uttered the words limited engagement. The people who dont understand only have themselves to blame and anyone who falls for it a second time cannot be helped. The automatic responce when you lose your pod is to get of grid as fast as possible anyway, sticking around is just asking for trouble.


Many people get confused and assume that limited engagement does not include podding. There's my case. OP's case is a lot more better than mine because there are already a million other confirmation dialog boxes in EVE. Mine only deals with information and should be even easier for you to not argue against it.

Simply put, you have even less reasons for arguing against the added information than my (and others) reasons for supporting the added information. You also have no reasons to care about the added information. I wonder if you are just arguing for the fun of it.

.
Lady Areola Fappington
#69 - 2013-05-12 23:25:02 UTC
Private Pineapple wrote:
I wonder if you are just arguing for the fun of it.


Welcome to EVE!

Seriously though, many ~bittervets~ really hate the idea of duels to begin with. They're just so...WoWlike. The old system of canflipping and such let you pull of many interesting (and scummy) tricks.

Anyway, why tell someone flat-out, when learning by experience is much more enjoyable? It only takes one good pod-loss, then you know better. If we follow the "warning box" idea, then contracts, direct trades, market hub local, and other such things would need a warning attached.


Piggy brings up a good point too. If you PVP with a cheap pod, then getting podded is no biggy. It's only when you have a headfull of +5's and other silly things does it sting.

7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided. --Eve New Player Guide
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#70 - 2013-05-12 23:25:46 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
Private Pineapple wrote:


Some people get confused and assume that limited engagement does not include podding.


Fixed that for you.

Given the lack of threads on this subject over the last 4 months (this is the first I have seen) and utter lack of evidence of hoards of people getting confused in game I think we cansafely say its a minority who dont PvP much not reading the warnings.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#71 - 2013-05-12 23:29:37 UTC
Private Pineapple wrote:
Many people get confused and assume that limited engagement does not include podding. There's my case.

Assuming things leads people to incorrect conclusions.
There's the only case to be made.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Beachura
Doomheim
#72 - 2013-05-12 23:43:47 UTC
Stonkeep wrote:
You can get podded anywhere and everywhere, its part of the game. Why should duels clarify this before the engagement ? You agreed to shoot and kill each other, this includes your pod as well.


Okay kid, I'm going to teach you to read. The guy said that he thought there should be a confirmation; The duel invite is on the right click menu and appreciably easy to click by mistake. He is simply suggesting that a confirmation window appears to ask you that you're sure, just like the confirm button that you have to press when you disengage your safety settings.

This seems fairly reasonable to me.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#73 - 2013-05-12 23:45:56 UTC
Beachura wrote:
Stonkeep wrote:
You can get podded anywhere and everywhere, its part of the game. Why should duels clarify this before the engagement ? You agreed to shoot and kill each other, this includes your pod as well.


Okay kid, I'm going to teach you to read. The guy said that he thought there should be a confirmation; The duel invite is on the right click menu and appreciably easy to click by mistake. He is simply suggesting that a confirmation window appears to ask you that you're sure, just like the confirm button that you have to press when you disengage your safety settings.

This seems fairly reasonable to me.

Why? There's no confirmation window that appears after you hit "jump" instead of "bridge".

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#74 - 2013-05-12 23:49:53 UTC
Beachura wrote:
Stonkeep wrote:
You can get podded anywhere and everywhere, its part of the game. Why should duels clarify this before the engagement ? You agreed to shoot and kill each other, this includes your pod as well.


Okay kid, I'm going to teach you to read. The guy said that he thought there should be a confirmation; The duel invite is on the right click menu and appreciably easy to click by mistake. He is simply suggesting that a confirmation window appears to ask you that you're sure, just like the confirm button that you have to press when you disengage your safety settings.

This seems fairly reasonable to me.


Or you can read it before saying yes.
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#75 - 2013-05-12 23:54:08 UTC
Beachura wrote:
Stonkeep wrote:
You can get podded anywhere and everywhere, its part of the game. Why should duels clarify this before the engagement ? You agreed to shoot and kill each other, this includes your pod as well.


Okay kid, I'm going to teach you to read. The guy said that he thought there should be a confirmation; The duel invite is on the right click menu and appreciably easy to click by mistake. He is simply suggesting that a confirmation window appears to ask you that you're sure, just like the confirm button that you have to press when you disengage your safety settings.

This seems fairly reasonable to me.

"Would you like to [action]?"
[Yes] [No]
"Are you sure?"
[Yes] [No]
"Are you sure that you are sure?"
[Yes] [No]
"You might not be sure enough. You will be given time to make sure that you are sure. Initiating 24-hour action intention countdown timer."
[Okay]

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Private Pineapple
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#76 - 2013-05-12 23:54:51 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Beachura wrote:
Okay kid, I'm going to teach you to read. The guy said that he thought there should be a confirmation; The duel invite is on the right click menu and appreciably easy to click by mistake. He is simply suggesting that a confirmation window appears to ask you that you're sure, just like the confirm button that you have to press when you disengage your safety settings.

This seems fairly reasonable to me.

Why? There's no confirmation window that appears after you hit "jump" instead of "bridge".


baltec1 wrote:
Beachura wrote:
Okay kid, I'm going to teach you to read. The guy said that he thought there should be a confirmation; The duel invite is on the right click menu and appreciably easy to click by mistake. He is simply suggesting that a confirmation window appears to ask you that you're sure, just like the confirm button that you have to press when you disengage your safety settings.

This seems fairly reasonable to me.


Or you can read it before saying yes.


So why are there confirmations for:

buying an 20,000 isk item at 1 billion isk
entering lowsec
plugging in an implant
going yellow safety
going red safety
ejecting from your ship
...many others

.
Private Pineapple
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#77 - 2013-05-12 23:56:05 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Beachura wrote:
Stonkeep wrote:
You can get podded anywhere and everywhere, its part of the game. Why should duels clarify this before the engagement ? You agreed to shoot and kill each other, this includes your pod as well.


Okay kid, I'm going to teach you to read. The guy said that he thought there should be a confirmation; The duel invite is on the right click menu and appreciably easy to click by mistake. He is simply suggesting that a confirmation window appears to ask you that you're sure, just like the confirm button that you have to press when you disengage your safety settings.

This seems fairly reasonable to me.

"Would you like to [action]?"
[Yes] [No]
"Are you sure?"
[Yes] [No]
"Are you sure that you are sure?"
[Yes] [No]
"You might not be sure enough. You will be given time to make sure that you are sure. Initiating 24-hour action intention countdown timer."
[Okay]


Strawman. CCP would never do such a thing, and there is a missing confirmation window for issuing a duel request -- there should probably be one and that is all the OP is asking for.

.
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#78 - 2013-05-12 23:58:47 UTC
Private Pineapple wrote:
Strawman. CCP would never do such a thing

LOL

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Private Pineapple
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#79 - 2013-05-13 00:00:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Private Pineapple
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:
Private Pineapple wrote:
I wonder if you are just arguing for the fun of it.


Welcome to EVE!

Seriously though, many ~bittervets~ really hate the idea of duels to begin with. They're just so...WoWlike. The old system of canflipping and such let you pull of many interesting (and scummy) tricks.

Anyway, why tell someone flat-out, when learning by experience is much more enjoyable? It only takes one good pod-loss, then you know better. If we follow the "warning box" idea, then contracts, direct trades, market hub local, and other such things would need a warning attached.


Piggy brings up a good point too. If you PVP with a cheap pod, then getting podded is no biggy. It's only when you have a headfull of +5's and other silly things does it sting.


I hate the idea of duels as well. I was appalled when I got back because I actually thought Limited Engagements meant the fight would go down to 1 health, not ship loss. I have been pleased, however, to see that this is not the case. But I am not supportive of the pod killing thing though I wouldn't remove it -- all I ask for is that it should be there to inform people that pod killing is allowed.

But if you say it like that, "why tell someone flat-out, when learning by experience is much more enjoyable? It only takes one good pod-loss, then you know better." then I am fine with retreating my case and will bid farewell to this thread as I also support that spirit of EVE. But I will say this, I am not saying a new warning box should be added to everything now just to tell the person "Wait! You might be doing something wrong. Be sure to know this: [clarifications go here]". I was actually arguing from the stance that there is already a dialog box for informing the user of a duel request so a simple line of text clarifying pod killing would be easy to add in and it would not change anything for most people except those who do not know that Limited Engagements also allow pod killing.

.
Private Pineapple
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#80 - 2013-05-13 00:01:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Private Pineapple
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Private Pineapple wrote:
Strawman. CCP would never do such a thing

LOL


There is only one situation where I know it takes you past the first "confirmation" box. That is biomassing -- not an everyday activity which makes your post a sarcastic strawman. I think character moves and redeeming items have more than one dialog box, but I am not sure if those are all confirmation boxes.

.