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Commemoration for Karin Midular
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Caellach Marellus
Stormcrows
#21 - 2013-05-12 18:50:29 UTC
Arista Shahni wrote:
Caellach Marellus wrote:
Arista Shahni wrote:
Lyn Farel wrote:
If some of you are interested, please let me know. If some of you are interested in organizing the event as well, please let me know. I hope that more experienced people could help in the process.




Funny how quickly people overlook important parts of a missive to tell others to go to hell.



Indeed, but then again some people have been showing clear incapability for rational thought and have been emotionally strung and coming out with uncharacteristic levels of ignorance as of late. I appreciate that the loss of the Ray of Matar has been a grieving blow beyond describable words, but those people should think to refrain from posting if they're incapable of doing anything but dishonouring her memory with such aggressive crap.


I'm sorry -- who exactly is being aggressive? Perhaps the way I define our common language is different than yours. Please do explain.


Telling people to go to hell is hardly a polite and reserved comment.

When your gut instincts tell you something is wrong, trust them. When your heart tells you something is right, ignore it, check with your brain first. Accept nothing, challenge everything.
Ava Starfire
Khushakor Clan
#22 - 2013-05-12 18:57:52 UTC
All of us are under quite an immense amount of stress, and emotions are running high. Karin Midular was well loved, both inside and outside of the Republic, and it is heartwarming to see others desiring to honor her passing.

Please, however, understand that as much as she represented to the cluster as a whole, she represented so much more to the Sebiestor Tribe, in ways which are extremely culturally significant. While some responses to this may have been quite emotionally charged, what people are doing in return is tantamount to screaming "I know she was your mother, but she was our friend too, and we know better." The grief of her death, the horror of the circumstances, is still fresh, still painful, still a very, very touchy topic.

Karin Midular worked very hard to bridge gaps between our people, and she set an example in doing so. Please remember that some gaps do still remain, and that they may not make much sense to some. Emotions here are running high.

Avlynka Surionen
Sebiestor Tribe

"There is no strength in numbers; have no such misconception." -Jayka Vofur, "Warfare in the North"
Scrap Dora
Ammatar Outlands Trading
#23 - 2013-05-12 19:45:03 UTC
Yulai would seem to be a good venue for any memorial.
Fredfredbug4
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#24 - 2013-05-12 20:47:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Fredfredbug4
Lyn Farel wrote:
I have been thinking a bit more on the location for the event. Considering there has already been a vigil in Pator, and that most of the answers that I got from Minmatar loyalists for now have been a clear negative, I would tend to favor Yulai above Pator.

Feel free to object if you have other ideas.


I'm not too sure about Yulai. I'm pretty sure the CONCORD station is still burning there. Hardly the place to celebrate the life of peacemaker.

Another neutral, CONCORD owned system would be a good venue, though most people would need directions so I don't know.

Rens or Hek would be good locations to consider.

Watch_ Fred Fred Frederation_ and stop [u]cryptozoologist[/u]! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it!
James Syagrius
Luminaire Sovereign Solutions
#25 - 2013-05-12 20:48:39 UTC  |  Edited by: James Syagrius
Anabella Rella wrote:
I support the words of Elsebeth Rhiannon. All the rest of you bigots, bloviators and blowhards can indeed go straight to hell.

It seems the Amarr did better than we thought. I didn't think you Tribals believed in “Hell”.

“Here also are the heralds of his praise."
Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#26 - 2013-05-12 20:57:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Lyn Farel
Hell does not really stems from Amarrian scriptures, Mr Syagrius, as far as I cal recall. In Scriptures - and Amarrian theologists will correct me if I am mistaken - there is only Heaven in the afterlife.

Actually, I am not sure where the concept of Hell comes from.

Fredfredbug4 wrote:
Lyn Farel wrote:
I have been thinking a bit more on the location for the event. Considering there has already been a vigil in Pator, and that most of the answers that I got from Minmatar loyalists for now have been a clear negative, I would tend to favor Yulai above Pator.

Feel free to object if you have other ideas.


I'm not too sure about Yulai. I'm pretty sure the CONCORD station is still burning there. Hardly the place to celebrate the life of peacemaker.

Another neutral, CONCORD owned system would be a good venue, though most people would need directions so I don't know.

Rens or Hek would be good locations to consider.


Rens or Hek are no different than Pator: they are still Minmatar territory. And since it seems considering the answers that this commemoration would be greatly unwelcome in Republic space, I am not sure that they would be a better choice.

And if you are afraid of fires in the CONCORD main station, I can assure you that the station continues to work perfectly fine in core areas, and fires long gone. And there are other CONCORD stations too.
Fredfredbug4
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2013-05-12 21:31:55 UTC
Lyn Farel wrote:
Hell does not really stems from Amarrian scriptures, Mr Syagrius, as far as I cal recall. In Scriptures - and Amarrian theologists will correct me if I am mistaken - there is only Heaven in the afterlife.

Actually, I am not sure where the concept of Hell comes from.

Fredfredbug4 wrote:
Lyn Farel wrote:
I have been thinking a bit more on the location for the event. Considering there has already been a vigil in Pator, and that most of the answers that I got from Minmatar loyalists for now have been a clear negative, I would tend to favor Yulai above Pator.

Feel free to object if you have other ideas.


I'm not too sure about Yulai. I'm pretty sure the CONCORD station is still burning there. Hardly the place to celebrate the life of peacemaker.

Another neutral, CONCORD owned system would be a good venue, though most people would need directions so I don't know.

Rens or Hek would be good locations to consider.


Rens or Hek are no different than Pator: they are still Minmatar territory. And since it seems considering the answers that this commemoration would be greatly unwelcome in Republic space, I am not sure that they would be a better choice.

And if you are afraid of fires in the CONCORD main station, I can assure you that the station continues to work perfectly fine in core areas, and fires long gone. And there are other CONCORD stations too.


Eh just my two cents. I don't strongly object to Yulai. Whatever you feel will be most convenient and most respectful should be fine.

Watch_ Fred Fred Frederation_ and stop [u]cryptozoologist[/u]! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it!
Arista Shahni
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#28 - 2013-05-12 23:41:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Arista Shahni
Caellach Marellus wrote:
Arista Shahni wrote:
Caellach Marellus wrote:
Arista Shahni wrote:
Lyn Farel wrote:
If some of you are interested, please let me know. If some of you are interested in organizing the event as well, please let me know. I hope that more experienced people could help in the process.




Funny how quickly people overlook important parts of a missive to tell others to go to hell.



Indeed, but then again some people have been showing clear incapability for rational thought and have been emotionally strung and coming out with uncharacteristic levels of ignorance as of late. I appreciate that the loss of the Ray of Matar has been a grieving blow beyond describable words, but those people should think to refrain from posting if they're incapable of doing anything but dishonouring her memory with such aggressive crap.


I'm sorry -- who exactly is being aggressive? Perhaps the way I define our common language is different than yours. Please do explain.


Telling people to go to hell is hardly a polite and reserved comment.


I see. Well, obviously, the indiivdual is quite emotionally moved, and perhaps the IGS is not the best place for such outbursts.

"I say that even as the holy and the righteous cannot rise beyond the highest which is in each one of you - so the wicked and the weak cannot fall lower than the lowest which is in you also.  And as a single leaf turns not yellow but with the silent knowledge of the whole tree, so the wrong-doer cannot do wrong without the hidden will of you all."
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
#29 - 2013-05-12 23:45:57 UTC
Elsebeth Rhiannon wrote:
This is not for yours to do, Ammatar.


Oh stuff it.

Elsebeth Rhiannon wrote:
No commemoration by you would ever be "genuine". Moreover, how could a commemoration for Karin Midular to not be political? Political was what she was. She was our Leader, for all good gods and ancestors! To think that you as an outsider can lead some sort of "neutral, genuine, apolitical" ceremony for her is laughable and offensive.


True, nothing we do could ever be as genuine as your open & blatant racism.

Elsebeth Rhiannon wrote:
If you truly wanted to do this, you would have quietly suggested it to someone who actually is in position to do this honorably, instead of trying to act as some sort of beneficiary to the tribe.


So in other words, not you.

Elsebeth Rhiannon wrote:
Go to hell.


Already been there. It's called a Brutor training camp. I escaped.

For all Karin did to promote peace between the Mandate and the Republic I'd think she'd be quite proud to have the Ammatar paying their respects to her. But since when have your kind of tribal supremacists ever cared for what the Ray of Matar stood for?

Your words go against everything she believed in. Her spirit would spit on them.

http://youtu.be/t0q2F8NsYQ0
Caellach Marellus
Stormcrows
#30 - 2013-05-13 00:09:49 UTC
Arista Shahni wrote:

I see. Well, obviously, the indiivdual is quite emotionally moved, and perhaps the IGS is not the best place for such outbursts.


Several are, they've been letting themselves down from their usual level of better conduct with some of their emotional tripe.

And it's tripe by their own better standards.

When your gut instincts tell you something is wrong, trust them. When your heart tells you something is right, ignore it, check with your brain first. Accept nothing, challenge everything.
Cipher7
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#31 - 2013-05-13 01:25:45 UTC
Lyn Farel wrote:
Cipher7 wrote:

While much light has been shed on the motivations of the Nefantar (colloquially "Ammatars") and perhaps one day the other tribes will welcome them back into the fold, the wounds are still too fresh.

As such, a rememberance hosted by an Ammatar would not be appropriate at this time, and I advise that it be postponed indefinitely for the good of future tribal relations.


To that kind of ignorant and vitriolic answers, I will be brief:

1) I am no Nefantar, and barely half Ammatar by blood, if blood really means anything.

2) You are not to decide what is appropriate at the New Eden scale, no more than anyone else. This is not a tribal commemoration.


Lyn,

The Ammatar Mandate is a confederation of Nefantar tribesmen under the control of an Amarrian governor.

So when you say "I am no Nefantar, and barely half Ammatar by blood" I don't know what that means, and I suspect neither do you.

It's not about determining your pedigree by blood, that does not matter.

The Empire want to destroy us because they're jealous. We have roots. You have roots.

I encourage you to find them and stop being a lackey.

Good day.
Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#32 - 2013-05-13 18:46:08 UTC
Katran Luftschreck wrote:
Elsebeth Rhiannon wrote:
This is not for yours to do, Ammatar.


Oh stuff it.

Elsebeth Rhiannon wrote:
No commemoration by you would ever be "genuine". Moreover, how could a commemoration for Karin Midular to not be political? Political was what she was. She was our Leader, for all good gods and ancestors! To think that you as an outsider can lead some sort of "neutral, genuine, apolitical" ceremony for her is laughable and offensive.


True, nothing we do could ever be as genuine as your open & blatant racism.

Elsebeth Rhiannon wrote:
If you truly wanted to do this, you would have quietly suggested it to someone who actually is in position to do this honorably, instead of trying to act as some sort of beneficiary to the tribe.


So in other words, not you.

Elsebeth Rhiannon wrote:
Go to hell.


Already been there. It's called a Brutor training camp. I escaped.

For all Karin did to promote peace between the Mandate and the Republic I'd think she'd be quite proud to have the Ammatar paying their respects to her. But since when have your kind of tribal supremacists ever cared for what the Ray of Matar stood for?

Your words go against everything she believed in. Her spirit would spit on them.


Yes, although, this is not an Ammatar event.
Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#33 - 2013-05-13 18:57:25 UTC
Cipher7 wrote:
Lyn Farel wrote:
Cipher7 wrote:

While much light has been shed on the motivations of the Nefantar (colloquially "Ammatars") and perhaps one day the other tribes will welcome them back into the fold, the wounds are still too fresh.

As such, a rememberance hosted by an Ammatar would not be appropriate at this time, and I advise that it be postponed indefinitely for the good of future tribal relations.


To that kind of ignorant and vitriolic answers, I will be brief:

1) I am no Nefantar, and barely half Ammatar by blood, if blood really means anything.

2) You are not to decide what is appropriate at the New Eden scale, no more than anyone else. This is not a tribal commemoration.


Lyn,

The Ammatar Mandate is a confederation of Nefantar tribesmen under the control of an Amarrian governor.

So when you say "I am no Nefantar, and barely half Ammatar by blood" I don't know what that means, and I suspect neither do you.

It's not about determining your pedigree by blood, that does not matter.

The Empire want to destroy us because they're jealous. We have roots. You have roots.

I encourage you to find them and stop being a lackey.

Good day.


We might not share the same definition for it then.

The Ammatar Mandate is not a tribal system. The Ammatar Mandate is ruled by Ammatar slave owners, which hold the same amount of power as true Amarr Holders, and in the same vein pledge fealty to various higher demesnes. The highest ranking of them all pledge allegiance to the Ardishapur current Heir. Without the Ardishapur link, the Ammatar Mandate could roughly be considered the equal to the Khanid Kingdom or the Tash Murkon Family before the departure of Khanid II, in terms of feudal position.

The Ammatar left the old Nefantar social system behind when they choosed to join the Greater Amarria. What remains of the old Nefantar civilisation are a lot of traditional trinkets, bits of language, or other various cultural remnants dating back from their time in the Ani Constellation.

The Nefantar has not ceased to exist, however, since the last few loyalists to the tribe choosed to come back to the Republic in YC 111.

And my roots do not lay in Derelik, which is merely a birthplace as any other one, and even less in Metropolis or Heimatar. My ancestors are not me, and I am not them. I am not my... mother either.
Makkal Hanaya
Revenent Defence Corperation
#34 - 2013-05-13 20:01:07 UTC
Cipher7 wrote:
So when you say "I am no Nefantar, and barely half Ammatar by blood" I don't know what that means, and I suspect neither do you.

Your ignorance isn't hers. She knows exactly what she means.

Render unto Khanid the things which are Khanid's; and unto God the things that are God's.
Nerva Auris
Doomheim
#35 - 2013-05-13 20:26:49 UTC
Fredfredbug4 wrote:

If anything, the fact that even an Ammatar would like to honor Karin Midular and her legacy proves the extremely positive impact the poor woman had on New Eden. For someone with conflicting political beliefs to honor said politician is quite humble.

You should be happy that Ms. Farel is organizing a ceremony, if an unofficial and nontraditional one. Hell, if she wasn't organizing it and instead, protesting it, you would be shouting the same derogatory remarks.


Perhaps she worries that Ms. Fare's commemoration will outshine her own?


Though I doubt she has cause, I doubt anything Ms. Farel could arrange could match the blood sacrifice of tens of thousands of Gallente and Matar that the Republic and it's Electus Matari friends arranged to honor the spirit and life of the Ray of Matar.
Shintoko Akahoshi
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#36 - 2013-05-13 22:30:50 UTC
Nerva Auris wrote:
I doubt anything Ms. Farel could arrange could match the blood sacrifice of tens of thousands of Gallente and Matar that the Republic and it's Electus Matari friends arranged to honor the spirit and life of the Ray of Matar.


What is it they say? Blood for the Blood God?

Bio and writing

(Nothing I say is indicative of corporate policy unless otherwise stated)
Arista Shahni
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#37 - 2013-05-14 08:33:35 UTC
Caellach Marellus wrote:
Arista Shahni wrote:

I see. Well, obviously, the indiivdual is quite emotionally moved, and perhaps the IGS is not the best place for such outbursts.


Several are, they've been letting themselves down from their usual level of better conduct with some of their emotional tripe.

And it's tripe by their own better standards.


Words spoken in grief should be excused for what they are. Grief, like faith, can bring peple to extremes others will find unacceptable. This is my opinion on the matter, anyway.

"I say that even as the holy and the righteous cannot rise beyond the highest which is in each one of you - so the wicked and the weak cannot fall lower than the lowest which is in you also.  And as a single leaf turns not yellow but with the silent knowledge of the whole tree, so the wrong-doer cannot do wrong without the hidden will of you all."
Zsaryna Adrelana
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#38 - 2013-05-14 09:32:52 UTC
Words spoken in grief should be taken as such indeed.
Rounds fired however?

I do this for many reasons. I do it because I believe it is right. I do it because I will profit by it. These all consolidate into one reason: I do it because I can.
Kade Jeekin
Masuat'aa Matari
Ushra'Khan
#39 - 2013-05-14 11:28:12 UTC
Lyn Farel wrote:
After all the political exploitation around the death of former Prime Minister and Chief Karin Midular,.

aha aha ha
**** off
Cipher7
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#40 - 2013-05-14 14:04:23 UTC
Lyn Farel wrote:

We might not share the same definition for it then.

The Ammatar Mandate is not a tribal system. The Ammatar Mandate is ruled by Ammatar slave owners, which hold the same amount of power as true Amarr Holders, and in the same vein pledge fealty to various higher demesnes. The highest ranking of them all pledge allegiance to the Ardishapur current Heir. Without the Ardishapur link, the Ammatar Mandate could roughly be considered the equal to the Khanid Kingdom or the Tash Murkon Family before the departure of Khanid II, in terms of feudal position.

The Ammatar left the old Nefantar social system behind when they choosed to join the Greater Amarria. What remains of the old Nefantar civilisation are a lot of traditional trinkets, bits of language, or other various cultural remnants dating back from their time in the Ani Constellation.

The Nefantar has not ceased to exist, however, since the last few loyalists to the tribe choosed to come back to the Republic in YC 111.

And my roots do not lay in Derelik, which is merely a birthplace as any other one, and even less in Metropolis or Heimatar. My ancestors are not me, and I am not them. I am not my... mother either.


"Ammatar" is a political construct.

The Nefantar yielded to this construct as a means of protecting the Starkmanirs from genocide.

"Half Ammatar" my left foot.

Tell me whelp, from whence your urge to honor Midular?

She is your enemy, and now your blood sings for you to honor her.

Just as your blood sings for your mother, your clan and your ancestors.

You'll connect the dots sooner or later.
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