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Upcoming Ice Changes and Multiboxers

Author
Sabotaged
Veritas Vincit
#1 - 2013-05-12 18:15:24 UTC
I played on Singularity. I noticed that existing ice belt systems will have the ice belt anomalies. So they don't appear to be random and in every system. You can use the ship scanner. Sites are not probed down.

There's about 50+ people in an ice belt right now on Tranquility. In the same system in Singularity the size of the ice belt is about 100 ice per roid, and 16 roids total. Thats about 1600 blocks. With 50 people it will take 20 minutes complete a belt.

I'm basing this on current ~100 second cycle times with orca boosts and the newly double cycle rate.

What happens when an ice roid pops in the middile of a cycle? You can't sit still now, you will have to move your fleet around. It looks like jetcanning and orca tractor beamers will make a come back. No dumping into fleet hangers anymore.

One thing is for certain, the new system will not accommodate current conditions, not even remotely close.
Quote:

At our current numbers, the maximum supply of ice from highsec (assuming that each belt is mined out completely five times a day) would provide approximately 80% of the game's ice needs, ensuring that at least some of the ice mining must be undertaken in lower security space.

I for one won't be mining in Lowsec. Why? I'm not taking 14 macks and an Orca to mine ice, put up a POS, have it shot down, scout for gatecamps, jump bridging the goods to hisec, BC and BS rats etc. just so I can get ganked in 1.5 hour belt...of course I would have a lot of drones... but I dont want to have to work. Besides, would you risk 4 billion in assets just so you can have an ice belt to yourself in lower sec?

Join a corp with access? That may work for some. But personally I'm not going join all my characters. I've noticed recruiters tend to be greedy in this regard. They want your mining alt fleet and they also want all your unrelated characters too. So they get nothing.

While CCP is ensuring that some ice must be mined in low sec, I suspect that if you don't do it already, you won't. if 20% of ice isn't mined in lower security space currently, I expect shortages. It's a harsh game remember?

The market is already reflecting changes before the release of the expansion. Whats going to happen? Higher fuel prices? Less POS's maintained? Increased T3 costs? Less Plex subs for multiboxers?

However, the real question is, what happened to our Simcities in Space?
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
#2 - 2013-05-12 18:16:25 UTC
You are a tad late to the party.


There's a million angry citizens looking down their tubes..at me.

Mr. Orange
Band of Freelancers
#3 - 2013-05-12 18:23:01 UTC
Sabotaged wrote:
I played on Singularity. I noticed that existing ice belt systems will have the ice belt anomalies. So they don't appear to be random and in every system. You can use the ship scanner. Sites are not probed down.

There's about 50+ people in an ice belt right now on Tranquility. In the same system in Singularity the size of the ice belt is about 100 ice per roid, and 16 roids total. Thats about 1600 blocks. With 50 people it will take 20 minutes complete a belt.

I'm basing this on current ~100 second cycle times with orca boosts and the newly double cycle rate.

What happens when an ice roid pops in the middile of a cycle? You can't sit still now, you will have to move your fleet around. It looks like jetcanning and orca tractor beamers will make a come back. No dumping into fleet hangers anymore.

One thing is for certain, the new system will not accommodate current conditions, not even remotely close.
Quote:

At our current numbers, the maximum supply of ice from highsec (assuming that each belt is mined out completely five times a day) would provide approximately 80% of the game's ice needs, ensuring that at least some of the ice mining must be undertaken in lower security space.

I for one won't be mining in Lowsec. Why? I'm not taking 14 macks and an Orca to mine ice, put up a POS, have it shot down, scout for gatecamps, jump bridging the goods to hisec, BC and BS rats etc. just so I can get ganked in 1.5 hour belt...of course I would have a lot of drones... but I dont want to have to work. Besides, would you risk 4 billion in assets just so you can have an ice belt to yourself in lower sec?

Join a corp with access? That may work for some. But personally I'm not going join all my characters. I've noticed recruiters tend to be greedy in this regard. They want your mining alt fleet and they also want all your unrelated characters too. So they get nothing.

While CCP is ensuring that some ice must be mined in low sec, I suspect that if you don't do it already, you won't. if 20% of ice isn't mined in lower security space currently, I expect shortages. It's a harsh game remember?

The market is already reflecting changes before the release of the expansion. Whats going to happen? Higher fuel prices? Less POS's maintained? Increased T3 costs? Less Plex subs for multiboxers?

However, the real question is, what happened to our Simcities in Space?


I have a job for you. Contact me in-game.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#4 - 2013-05-12 18:41:05 UTC
In a free market like EVE, there are no long term shortages of anything. Prices rise until quantity demanded drops to/below quantity supplied. As prices rise, quantity supplied tends to go up (there are probably enough miners currently in 0.0 to produce that 20%. They haven't been because Ice mining in 0.0 is far worse income than ore mining for the same effort).


In other words, instead of being shortages, there will be people who say "welp, too expensive, I'm getting rid of my POS/Cap/whatever" and people who say "hey, Ice is really expensive. I think I'll Rorq over to that friendly Ice system and do some mining."


Even if the Quantity Supplied doesn't go up at all, the price increase will drive enough people out of the market for ice products to allow ice to keep flowing. Just like it did during the various Ice Interdictions.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon

GreenSeed
#5 - 2013-05-12 18:56:51 UTC
honestly, this change is way too beneficial to multiboxers instead of regular miners. once a belt spawns a single boxer can kill half the belt in under 5 minutes. the new ice cycle timer is completely unnecessary.


and as far as having to move to low/null... do it. if you can already run that many accounts you can keep an index of 4 alone. on any system. once the ore changes hit, just switch to mining ore and join a null sec alliance. just remember this, when you join, make the clones, and fly to your home in pods or ventures. if you are giving them 20 man hours per hour, they better be ready to set up a safe pos for you and give you atleast 5 production lines.

with your extraction power and the new ore refining values you'll be space rich in a month, and you can buy yourself your very own JF alt that will get ganked in a week and get you booted from the alliance for shaming their killboard.

Danni stark
#6 - 2013-05-12 19:03:46 UTC
Sabotaged wrote:
In the same system in Singularity the size of the ice belt is about 100 ice per roid, and 16 roids total. Thats about 1600 blocks.



wrong.
Jayrendo Karr
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#7 - 2013-05-12 19:19:23 UTC
They should add 6-10 systems in lowsec with infinite ice fields, if people need ice so bad, they can risk getting it in losec.
GreenSeed
#8 - 2013-05-12 19:38:58 UTC
Danni stark wrote:
Sabotaged wrote:
In the same system in Singularity the size of the ice belt is about 100 ice per roid, and 16 roids total. Thats about 1600 blocks.



wrong.


actually its correct, current sisi build has that per system. checked in 7 ice systems.
Klymer
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#9 - 2013-05-12 19:47:20 UTC
So how big of a fleet of mining ships would you need to suck up an ice field in say 5 to 10 minutes?

Who has the logistical prowess to Titan bridge said fleet into a losec system, or an enemy held nullsec system for that matter?
Danni stark
#10 - 2013-05-12 19:49:40 UTC
GreenSeed wrote:
Danni stark wrote:
Sabotaged wrote:
In the same system in Singularity the size of the ice belt is about 100 ice per roid, and 16 roids total. Thats about 1600 blocks.



wrong.


actually its correct, current sisi build has that per system. checked in 7 ice systems.


ccp fozzy already confirmed there are 2500 ice blocks per anom.

op is wrong, or would you like to argue that ccp fozzy is wrong?
Mhax Arthie
Doomheim
#11 - 2013-05-12 19:53:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Mhax Arthie
Ice belts are ok, I salute the changes. But I cannot understand what happened with the gravimetric sites... in the next expansion you have to be completely nuts to mine in a gravi site. I had a test with a friend on the test server, took me about 8 seconds to gank him in the gravi site soon as I landed in his system. Miners in null and WH willl have to skip the gravi sites and mine in the regular belts or they will fall like flies, ganking miners will be just too easy.
Danni stark
#12 - 2013-05-12 19:55:30 UTC
Mhax Arthie wrote:
Ice belts are ok, I salute the changes. But I cannot understand what happened with the gravimetric sites... in the next expansion you have to be completely nuts to mine in a gravi site. I had a test with a friend on the test server, took me about 8 seconds to gank him in the gravi site soon as I landed in his system. Miners in null and WH willl have to skip the gravi sites and mine in the regular belts or they will fall like flies, ganking miners will be just too easy.


yeah because belts aren't as easy to warp to, right?
Felicity Love
Doomheim
#13 - 2013-05-12 20:12:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Felicity Love
Sabotaged wrote:

I for one won't be mining in Lowsec. Why? I'm not taking 14 macks and an Orca to mine ice, put up a POS, have it shot down, scout for gatecamps, jump bridging the goods to hisec, BC and BS rats etc. just so I can get ganked in 1.5 hour belt...of course I would have a lot of drones... but I dont want to have to work. Besides, would you risk 4 billion in assets just so you can have an ice belt to yourself in lower sec?


Conflict drives EVE... so you should add a few logi's to that fleet of ice-mining goodness, and get some friends to cover your Six in exchange for some of your ice.... Onoes... working together... Roll

"EVE is dying." -- The Four Forum Trolls of the Apocalypse.   ( Pick four, any four. They all smell.  )

Valari Nala Zena
Perkone
Caldari State
#14 - 2013-05-12 20:29:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Valari Nala Zena
The amount of ice currently in singularity doesn't reflect the amount there will actually be in Odyssey:

CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey everyone. We're updating SISI now with Odyssey, and it's not quite going to have our latest Ice designs in this build. So I wanted to give a clear update on our plans here so you all don't get confused by the numbers live on SISI today.

Here's what we currently have planned for the volumes of ice in each Ice Anomaly:

Highsec:
2500 units of standard racial ice.

Lowsec:
3000 units of standard racial ice
400 units of Glare Crust

Nullsec with weak truesec (0.0 to -0.5):
3000 units of improved racial ice
400 units of Glare Crust
500 units of Dark Glitter
200 units of Gelidus

Nullsec with strong truesec (-0.5 to -1.0):
3500 units of improved racial ice
400 units of Glare Crust
1000 units of Dark Glitter
300 units of Gelidus
250 units of Krystallos

As mentioned before, these belts will appear in systems that currently have ice belts, and will respawn four hours after they are depleted.


We're also adjusting the composition of Krystallos to bring it out of the gutter and help ensure enough ozone supply:
Heavy Water: 125 (+25)
Liquid Ozone: 500 (+250)
Stront: 125 (+25)


https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=233568
Sabotaged
Veritas Vincit
#15 - 2013-05-12 21:02:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Sabotaged
Danni stark wrote:
GreenSeed wrote:
Danni stark wrote:
Sabotaged wrote:
In the same system in Singularity the size of the ice belt is about 100 ice per roid, and 16 roids total. Thats about 1600 blocks.



wrong.


actually its correct, current sisi build has that per system. checked in 7 ice systems.


ccp fozzy already confirmed there are 2500 ice blocks per anom.

op is wrong, or would you like to argue that ccp fozzy is wrong?


1600 wasn't meant to be exact, just estimate, roids had a bit over 100 using a survey scanner, some roids had 109, 126. I didnt see anything that would indicate an average of 150. Could it still have been 2500, sure. I didnt go and check each roid.

four hour respawn timer? wow.
Xpaulusx
Naari LLC
#16 - 2013-05-13 01:36:44 UTC
Massive Ice mining in Null...........Bomber Groups Like Bombers Bar/Templeton, DirtNap Squad and others must be jizzing in their pants. Should be fun. Lol

......................................................

Corey Fumimasa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#17 - 2013-05-13 02:56:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Corey Fumimasa
Sabotaged wrote:


However, the real question is, what happened to our Simcities in Space?


Simcity worked because it was designed to be "won" There really was no challenge or threat. Eve is a game in which you build something in spite of other players trying to destroy it.

This is not "sim city" in space, and never has been. Your f2p PLEXed accounts are no more interesting than AI rats.

As for the value of PLEX; CCP can subsidize that at any time. You farm resources that can be produced with a hand wave. Perhaps no one is terribly concerned whether you log in or not.

Maybe that is what this next xpac is all about.
Ghazu
#18 - 2013-05-13 03:23:48 UTC
lol you guys used to have sov.

http://www.minerbumping.com/ lol what the christ https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2299984#post2299984

James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#19 - 2013-05-13 03:30:18 UTC  |  Edited by: James Amril-Kesh
GreenSeed wrote:
honestly, this change is way too beneficial to multiboxers instead of regular miners. once a belt spawns a single boxer can kill half the belt in under 5 minutes. the new ice cycle timer is completely unnecessary.

You do realize that depletion of ice belts and the decreased cycle time makes things harder on multiboxers, don't you?

Not only will their ore holds fill up twice as fast so they'll have to micromanage that, the depleting ice chunks means that they can't sit in one spot either. Not only will their fleet deplete ice, other fleets will also deplete it and ice depletion will be fairly unpredictable, meaning you can't go semi-AFK and expect to pull decent amounts like you can now. Controlling multiple mining ships + Orcas with one person is going to be a lot harder to manage.
This is why, despite ore being more profitable, you don't see multiboxing ore mining fleets at nearly the same scale as multiboxing ice miners.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

Lexar Mundi
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#20 - 2013-05-13 04:09:28 UTC
Danni stark wrote:
GreenSeed wrote:
Danni stark wrote:
Sabotaged wrote:
In the same system in Singularity the size of the ice belt is about 100 ice per roid, and 16 roids total. Thats about 1600 blocks.



wrong.


actually its correct, current sisi build has that per system. checked in 7 ice systems.


ccp fozzy already confirmed there are 2500 ice blocks per anom.

op is wrong, or would you like to argue that ccp fozzy is wrong?


The op may be in a belt that has been mined on the test server. I scanned a belt in a system with my orca. I got 19 ice rocks with around 100+ units per rock on it.
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