These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Ships & Modules

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
123Next page
 

How about gently adjusting Myrmidon & Brutix (non-hybrid related)
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#1 - 2011-11-03 10:06:03 UTC
While most agree that the Myrmidon is one of the best Gallente ships at the moment, it has one tiny detail that bothers me: Drone bandwidth is low. No, I don't think it should be battleship-level, but how about giving it 25 more of both drone bay and bandwidth? (for 4 sentries / heavies) This should probably be balanced by reducing powergrid and/or cpu a bit. This change would emphasize it's drone boat nature.


While the Myrm is a superb active tanker, poor Brutix shares the same armor rep bonus, but does not have the slot layout to actually fit a usable active tank at all. Now how about changing this bonus to something better suiting it's gunboat role, maybe the same bonus as Thorax has, or maybe some armour resists?


.
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2011-11-03 10:34:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Onictus
Roime wrote:
While most agree that the Myrmidon is one of the best Gallente ships at the moment, it has one tiny detail that bothers me: Drone bandwidth is low. No, I don't think it should be battleship-level, but how about giving it 25 more of both drone bay and bandwidth? (for 4 sentries / heavies) This should probably be balanced by reducing powergrid and/or cpu a bit. This change would emphasize it's drone boat nature.


While the Myrm is a superb active tanker, poor Brutix shares the same armor rep bonus, but does not have the slot layout to actually fit a usable active tank at all. Now how about changing this bonus to something better suiting it's gunboat role, maybe the same bonus as Thorax has, or maybe some armour resists?





I'd like the Brutix a LOT better if they would move a mid slot to the a medium, and gave it a shield or velocity bonus instead of a active armor.

Single repper doesn't rep enough and double repper means significant compromises in the pew department.

Armor resist bonuses could be pretty cool, particularly since the turret fittings are supposed to be getting toned down.

I'd LOVE to see a 125Mb Mrym, you mean I could brick tank it and sit out at 90km and plink away with meh Wardens. THAT WOULD ROCK.

I mean theoretically you could drop three and do the same thing, but even with decent skills you are only going to be doing 85dps with wardens and maybe 200 gardes ...unless you get extravagant with the faction mods and a rigs...but then you have a 700mil isk myrm, and that is just crazy.

Either way, Myrm is so slow that I really don't see 125Mb bandwidth being that crazy, rails are still rails and mediums are even worse than their large counterparts...and pretty much every thing below the unpropped BS level can outrun a dual plated myrm.

Let it be the ghetto-domi it was supposed to be, because the Talos fails to impress me.
Shivus Tao
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2011-11-03 10:46:18 UTC
Armor resist bonuses are probably a no since they're mostly amarr domain.

+5% to ship accelleration per level? Use it to prototype potential future gallente hull changes if the hybrids truly can't be fixed on their own? The ship does have about a dozen engines.
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2011-11-03 10:51:07 UTC
Shivus Tao wrote:
Armor resist bonuses are probably a no since they're mostly amarr domain.

+5% to ship accelleration per level? Use it to prototype potential future gallente hull changes if the hybrids truly can't be fixed on their own? The ship does have about a dozen engines.



Exactly, plus that would allow you to get a little straight line speed with a plate as well as counter-act rigging.

It'll never eclipse a nano-cane....but it would at least be somewhat useful.
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#5 - 2011-11-03 12:27:15 UTC
Speed bonus could well be most interesting... basically anything but the current one :D

.
Wacktopia
Fleet-Up.com
Keep It Simple Software Group
#6 - 2011-11-03 13:32:34 UTC
Onictus wrote:
Shivus Tao wrote:
Armor resist bonuses are probably a no since they're mostly amarr domain.

+5% to ship accelleration per level? Use it to prototype potential future gallente hull changes if the hybrids truly can't be fixed on their own? The ship does have about a dozen engines.



Exactly, plus that would allow you to get a little straight line speed with a plate as well as counter-act rigging.

It'll never eclipse a nano-cane....but it would at least be somewhat useful.


Shield Brutix with ship bonus changed to speed & agility should be faster than a shield-cane (without Nano mods) imho. It should be a "cathc-you-and-****-you" ship. :)

Kitchen sink? Seriousy, get your ship together -  Fleet-Up.com
Kate Diabolus
#7 - 2011-11-03 13:43:03 UTC
I would personally love to see a shield Brutix. It's my favourite way to fly my Thorax and if they could design it around that, it would be great.
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2011-11-03 13:55:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Onictus
Wacktopia wrote:
Onictus wrote:
Shivus Tao wrote:
Armor resist bonuses are probably a no since they're mostly amarr domain.

+5% to ship accelleration per level? Use it to prototype potential future gallente hull changes if the hybrids truly can't be fixed on their own? The ship does have about a dozen engines.



Exactly, plus that would allow you to get a little straight line speed with a plate as well as counter-act rigging.

It'll never eclipse a nano-cane....but it would at least be somewhat useful.


Shield Brutix with ship bonus changed to speed & agility should be faster than a shield-cane (without Nano mods) imho. It should be a "cathc-you-and-****-you" ship. :)



Right, which would allow for some play with the self scramming and travel time between targets.

It still wouldn't be a cane, blasters don't allow it, but it would be an amusing ship to fly.
vorneus
Hub2
#9 - 2011-11-03 14:00:16 UTC
I think the Myrmidon should be left alone for the time being. There has been a lot of talk about upping its bandwidth since the nerf - 100m3 would be nice, but 125m3 is probably too much and would require removing a turret slot at least.

I agree that the Brutix's active tank bonus should be swapped. Only one other of the 4 tier 2 BC's share the same defence bonus (Drake and Ferox's shield resists) so it isn't a 'rule' as such. Basically as mentioned the active tank bonus for the Brutix makes no sense with its slot layout and design philosophy, even a microwarp cap bonus like the Thorax would be more useful.

-Ed

This one time, I like, totally did some stuff.
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2011-11-03 14:29:36 UTC
vorneus wrote:
I think the Myrmidon should be left alone for the time being. There has been a lot of talk about upping its bandwidth since the nerf - 100m3 would be nice, but 125m3 is probably too much and would require removing a turret slot at least.

I agree that the Brutix's active tank bonus should be swapped. Only one other of the 4 tier 2 BC's share the same defence bonus (Drake and Ferox's shield resists) so it isn't a 'rule' as such. Basically as mentioned the active tank bonus for the Brutix makes no sense with its slot layout and design philosophy, even a microwarp cap bonus like the Thorax would be more useful.

-Ed


A set of heavy drones only does 470 DPS with perfect skills, and sucks against frigates without giving up two slots to omnis.

That is gardes that a lot of ships can flat outrun
Party Lips
Calamitous-Intent
#11 - 2011-11-03 15:01:12 UTC
this topic is hard to explore what would work best for the brutix till the details of the hybrid/ship buff/nerfs are in.
Goose99
#12 - 2011-11-03 15:30:10 UTC
Onictus wrote:
vorneus wrote:
I think the Myrmidon should be left alone for the time being. There has been a lot of talk about upping its bandwidth since the nerf - 100m3 would be nice, but 125m3 is probably too much and would require removing a turret slot at least.

I agree that the Brutix's active tank bonus should be swapped. Only one other of the 4 tier 2 BC's share the same defence bonus (Drake and Ferox's shield resists) so it isn't a 'rule' as such. Basically as mentioned the active tank bonus for the Brutix makes no sense with its slot layout and design philosophy, even a microwarp cap bonus like the Thorax would be more useful.

-Ed


A set of heavy drones only does 470 DPS with perfect skills, and sucks against frigates without giving up two slots to omnis.

That is gardes that a lot of ships can flat outrun


Agreed. The Myrm bandwidth nerf should be reversed. The Domi's prowess isn't due to its drones, but rather myriad loadouts of neuting power or large blaster, combined with gratuitous amount of mid and low slots.
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#13 - 2011-11-03 15:57:28 UTC
I think 100mbit/s would suffice, with 5 heavies/sentries a dual-repper Myrm could pump out 750+ dps, which is a bit too much imho.
Combined with 600 HP/s omnitank... (for example with Garde IIs half of that DPS has 30km optimal, half close range from turrets)

On the other hand, 4 heavies/sentries would place it properly between the Vexor and Ishtar/Domi. I'm training BC V, and currently there's little point for me to fly the Myrm, when my Vexor outdamages it with Cruiser V.

.
Songbird
#14 - 2011-11-03 16:03:25 UTC
if you have cruiser 5 just fly the ishtar - it's fast agile and carries 3 sets of large drones.

there's also the gila which is perfectly easy to train for (and which skills you got when you trained up for a drake, I know you have it don't lie ).
Alara IonStorm
#15 - 2011-11-03 16:11:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Alara IonStorm
Thorax
Brutix
Deimos
Megathron or Hyperion

+10% MWD Speed per level.

That outta shake things up.
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#16 - 2011-11-03 16:12:59 UTC
I've reserved the Ishtar for carebearing purposes due to budget constraints :D

Drake? The Caldari noobship? Nice targets

.
Jerick Ludhowe
Internet Tuff Guys
#17 - 2011-11-03 16:50:17 UTC
Both the Brutix and the Myrmidon have been in need of a look-over for a while now so i'm more or less in agreement with the OP. While I do agree there are issues with these ships I do not completely agree with the proposed changes.

Ahh the myrmidon... It does indeed need another 25m3 bandwidth to bring it's overall dps more inline with the other tier 2 BCs out there. Other than the current small bandwidth I love this ship, enough mids to shield gank if you want, or you have enough space for a double web making the myrmidon with a complement of small drones absolutely ferocious against frigates. Double cap injected triple rep can work wonders as well.

Now for the Brutix... +1 low, +25m3 drone bay would be a great start. As far as the armour rep bonus goes.... If CCP insists on keeping it at least add a cap reduction bonus to armor reps on top of the current rep amount bonus. Couple this with the removal of the speed penalty from armor rep rigs and you will have a nasty little small scale pvper.
Jacob Holland
Weyland-Vulcan Industries
#18 - 2011-11-03 17:32:09 UTC
I've said it before...

The primary change to the Myrm should be:

Either:
Reduce Bandwidth -> 50MBit (Making maximum damage potential 5 Medium Drones)
&
Change Bonus to 20% Drone Damage & Hitpoints per level.

or:
Increase Bandwidth -> 125MBit (5 Heavies or Sentries)
&
Change Bonus to 20% Scout Drone Damage & Hitpoints per level. (Using the same flag as the Combat Drone Operation skill to limit the bonus to Light and Medium Scout Drones only.

The result of both would be to give the Myrm an effective 20 unbonused Medium Drones Compared to the Vexor's 15 and the Domi's 15 Heavies (approximately equivalent to 30 Mediums in terms of damage output).

The first option is easier but removes the option of using sentries (it's niche now but this would stop it dead).
The second more tricky to code but would allow unbonussed Sentries or Heavies (Heavies in this case would have no advantage at all over mediums (except perhaps slightly higher EHP).
Cyniac
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2011-11-03 17:42:42 UTC
Eos needs the love. Myrm is fine.


Another idea - don't touch the Myrm, just modify augmented drones to use less bandwidth by about 40 %

So...

Augmented Ogre - 15 Mbit
Augmented Hammerhead - 6 Mbit
Augmented Hobgoblins - 3 Mbit

Now... given the cost of those things wouldn't it be interesting?

(Do NOT do this for Sentries!)
Sylar Reuwich
Hek Trade and Industries
#20 - 2011-11-03 22:15:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Sylar Reuwich
I think the Myrm is ok at the moment, it's one of the only BCs I've yet to take out a well piloted/fitted Drake 1v1 with and it generally does quite well solo however I also think a 25mb increase in bandwidth and bay would be awesome while being pretty reasonable. Maybe we'd see more Myrms in fleets when you can actually get alright DPS out of 4 Garde IIs or Bouncers from the moment of target acquisition while burning toward whatever needs blasting xD.

125mb would be too much. If it were given that, a triple rep Myrm would be able to field easily more than HAC level DPS and tank as long as its drones stay alive and it has cap boosters. Those cap boosters don't run out too quickly either, then you can take overloading into account...Yeah it would just too much lol.

Cyniac wrote:
Eos needs the love. Myrm is fine.


Another idea - don't touch the Myrm, just modify augmented drones to use less bandwidth by about 40 %

So...

Augmented Ogre - 15 Mbit
Augmented Hammerhead - 6 Mbit
Augmented Hobgoblins - 3 Mbit

Now... given the cost of those things wouldn't it be interesting?

(Do NOT do this for Sentries!)


Interesting idea. Would finally make them worth buying to more than just a few people.
123Next page