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Upcoming Changes To Industrials?

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MaRU2760 133
Unit 439
#1 - 2013-05-11 17:30:19 UTC
I read a dev blog a while back about changes to skill requirements, etc. As I remember it, they hadn't really decided what they were going to do. Can someone give me a link to a thread about it, or a later dev blog?
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#2 - 2013-05-11 17:33:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Zhilia Mann
Would love to... but there isn't one yet. All we know is that changes are coming, but probably not in June.

Edit: Derp. Question was about skill changes, not ship changes. Skill changes are well-documented; see posted links.
Simeon Tor
New Dawn Corp
New Eden Research.
#3 - 2013-05-11 17:35:17 UTC
You may mean this blog. Here's an example of the changes.

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CCP Ytterbium
C C P
C C P Alliance
#4 - 2013-05-12 14:15:07 UTC
We're changing the skill requirements for Industrials as with all other ships for Odyssey.


However, the roles / attributes themselves will have to stay as they are for a while longer - we initially planed for them to go in the expansion as well, but they slipped out due to lack of time.

Tech1 Industrial overhaul has a high priority on our balanc-o-meter though - once battleships are updated, they'll be the last tech1 sub-capital hulls that need to go through the Tiericide fires.

Plans we have for them so far is to have the same kind of treatment than we've done with the Mining Barges. Have one Industrial variation with good mobility, low EHP and low cargo for quickly moving things around, another with low mobility, low EHP and high cargo for bulk transport and the last one with good defenses but poor mobility / cargo to compensate.

Which of course poses a problem with Gallente industrials and their 5 variations - as CCP Fozzie keeps saying all the time, if all else fail we'll shuffle the last two unused Iteron variations to have a dedicated bay for Spiced Wine and Exoctic Dancers P
Jonas Sukarala
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#5 - 2013-05-12 14:17:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonas Sukarala
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
We're changing the skill requirements for Industrials as with all other ships for Odyssey.


However, the roles / attributes themselves will have to stay as they are for a while longer - we initially planed for them to go in the expansion as well, but they slipped out due to lack of time.

Tech1 Industrial overhaul has a high priority on our balanc-o-meter though - once battleships are updated, they'll be the last tech1 sub-capital hulls that need to go through the Tiericide fires.

Plans we have for them so far is to have the same kind of treatment than we've done with the Mining Barges. Have one Industrial variation with good mobility, low EHP and low cargo for quickly moving things around, another with low mobility, low EHP and high cargo for bulk transport and the last one with good defenses but poor mobility / cargo to compensate.

Which of course poses a problem with Gallente industrials and their 5 variations - as CCP Fozzie keeps saying all the time, if all else fail we'll shuffle the last two unused Iteron variations to have a dedicated bay for Spiced Wine and Exoctic Dancers P


delete them instead .. problem solved :P
or make them into frigate haulers

'Tech3 ships need to be put down, like a rabid dog drooling everywhere in the house, they are out of line' CCP Ytterbium Nerf missile range into place where is the TD missile change?  ..projectiles should use capacitor. ABC's should be T2 HABC and nerf web strength its still too high

Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#6 - 2013-05-12 14:23:35 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
low EHP and low cargo for quickly moving things around

Guess I won't train a cloaky hauler then.

Oh god.
Alexa Coates
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2013-05-12 14:25:12 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
We're changing the skill requirements for Industrials as with all other ships for Odyssey.


However, the roles / attributes themselves will have to stay as they are for a while longer - we initially planed for them to go in the expansion as well, but they slipped out due to lack of time.

Tech1 Industrial overhaul has a high priority on our balanc-o-meter though - once battleships are updated, they'll be the last tech1 sub-capital hulls that need to go through the Tiericide fires.

Plans we have for them so far is to have the same kind of treatment than we've done with the Mining Barges. Have one Industrial variation with good mobility, low EHP and low cargo for quickly moving things around, another with low mobility, low EHP and high cargo for bulk transport and the last one with good defenses but poor mobility / cargo to compensate.

Which of course poses a problem with Gallente industrials and their 5 variations - as CCP Fozzie keeps saying all the time, if all else fail we'll shuffle the last two unused Iteron variations to have a dedicated bay for Spiced Wine and Exoctic Dancers P

give the last 2 versions a different bonus that will entice people to possible cross train, like combat bonuses or cloak bonuses.

In fact, having all races have exactly the same bonuses is pretty damn boring.

That's a Templar, an Amarr fighter used by carriers.
hellcane
Never Back Down
#8 - 2013-05-12 14:28:17 UTC
Riot Girl wrote:
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
low EHP and low cargo for quickly moving things around

Guess I won't train a cloaky hauler then.

Still a good idea for expensive stuff.
Danni stark
#9 - 2013-05-12 14:38:40 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Plans we have for them so far is to have the same kind of treatment than we've done with the Mining Barges. Have one Industrial variation with good mobility, low EHP and low cargo for quickly moving things around, another with low mobility, low EHP and high cargo for bulk transport and the last one with good defenses but poor mobility / cargo to compensate.


you are aware your mining barge rebalance was horrible and failed at the "balance" part (look at your dev blog where you showed how much ore was mined by skiffs and procurers) so this already sounds bad.

also, i fail to see how a bulk or good defense industrial will have anything to offer over what an orca currently offers without being ridiculously OP, or a heavy nerf to the orca.

please prove me wrong and don't **** this up.

Ice Mining Skill Plan.
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#10 - 2013-05-12 14:49:17 UTC
Alexa Coates wrote:
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
We're changing the skill requirements for Industrials as with all other ships for Odyssey.


However, the roles / attributes themselves will have to stay as they are for a while longer - we initially planed for them to go in the expansion as well, but they slipped out due to lack of time.

Tech1 Industrial overhaul has a high priority on our balanc-o-meter though - once battleships are updated, they'll be the last tech1 sub-capital hulls that need to go through the Tiericide fires.

Plans we have for them so far is to have the same kind of treatment than we've done with the Mining Barges. Have one Industrial variation with good mobility, low EHP and low cargo for quickly moving things around, another with low mobility, low EHP and high cargo for bulk transport and the last one with good defenses but poor mobility / cargo to compensate.

Which of course poses a problem with Gallente industrials and their 5 variations - as CCP Fozzie keeps saying all the time, if all else fail we'll shuffle the last two unused Iteron variations to have a dedicated bay for Spiced Wine and Exotic Dancers P

give the last 2 versions a different bonus that will entice people to possible cross train, like combat bonuses or cloak bonuses.

In fact, having all races have exactly the same bonuses is pretty damn boring.

This.

Also Caldari and Amarr only have 2 industrials now, so they could not have all 3 (unless you add ships).

Possible roles:

Fast
Tough
Big
Fleet hangar
Fitting service
Secure market (like we have in stations)
Script-able specialized bay

Warp while cloaked Id keep for T2.
Hard to catch ( Warp core strength) is currently T2 in industrials, but slipped into T1 ships with the Venture. Maybe it should be a T1 industrial too.

Know a Frozen fan? Check this out

Frozen fanfiction
Phoenix Jones
Small-Arms Fire
#11 - 2013-05-12 14:53:38 UTC
Actually the mining barge changes were very successful. It is a matter of opinion though.

The industrials are much different than the mining barges though. Most people care about 1 thing with them.

M3

The more m3 it has, the more we haul, the faster we get things done, the faster we get to go back to pew pew. The high m3 hauler better have some massive m3 ability. I'm talking about 150,000 m3 range. If you really want to restrict it, give that mass hauler the old freighter restrictions so the orca still has a role.

Yaay!!!!
Rengerel en Distel
#12 - 2013-05-12 15:02:01 UTC
Phoenix Jones wrote:
Actually the mining barge changes were very successful. It is a matter of opinion though.

The industrials are much different than the mining barges though. Most people care about 1 thing with them.

M3

The more m3 it has, the more we haul, the faster we get things done, the faster we get to go back to pew pew. The high m3 hauler better have some massive m3 ability. I'm talking about 150,000 m3 range. If you really want to restrict it, give that mass hauler the old freighter restrictions so the orca still has a role.



The problem with adding m3 is that you're adding the value of the cargo you carry (in general). The T1 industrials just don't have the EHP to survive as well as an orca or freighter (and even they are weak with the amount of dps thrown out now).

It is really the freighter line that should get a change.

With the increase in shiptoasting, the Report timer needs to be shortened.
Dato Koppla
Spaghetti Militia
#13 - 2013-05-12 15:17:16 UTC
Please maintain the ability of one of the industrials (preferrably the quick low tank/cargo one) ability to fit an 10mn MWD + Cloak, currently all the races top tier industrials are able to fit it although the Iteron Mark V has the easiest time fitting it while maintaining the largest cargo.
Jason Xado
Doomheim
#14 - 2013-05-12 15:33:12 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
We're changing the skill requirements for Industrials as with all other ships for Odyssey.


However, the roles / attributes themselves will have to stay as they are for a while longer - we initially planed for them to go in the expansion as well, but they slipped out due to lack of time.

Tech1 Industrial overhaul has a high priority on our balanc-o-meter though - once battleships are updated, they'll be the last tech1 sub-capital hulls that need to go through the Tiericide fires.

Plans we have for them so far is to have the same kind of treatment than we've done with the Mining Barges. Have one Industrial variation with good mobility, low EHP and low cargo for quickly moving things around, another with low mobility, low EHP and high cargo for bulk transport and the last one with good defenses but poor mobility / cargo to compensate.

Which of course poses a problem with Gallente industrials and their 5 variations - as CCP Fozzie keeps saying all the time, if all else fail we'll shuffle the last two unused Iteron variations to have a dedicated bay for Spiced Wine and Exoctic Dancers P


The first one sounds like a blockade runner and the last one sounds like a deep space transport. So what will make the tech 2 and tech 1 roles different if the tech 1 ships have the same roles as the tech 2?
Phoenix Jones
Small-Arms Fire
#15 - 2013-05-12 15:58:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Phoenix Jones
Rengerel en Distel wrote:
Phoenix Jones wrote:
Actually the mining barge changes were very successful. It is a matter of opinion though.

The industrials are much different than the mining barges though. Most people care about 1 thing with them.

M3

The more m3 it has, the more we haul, the faster we get things done, the faster we get to go back to pew pew. The high m3 hauler better have some massive m3 ability. I'm talking about 150,000 m3 range. If you really want to restrict it, give that mass hauler the old freighter restrictions so the orca still has a role.



The problem with adding m3 is that you're adding the value of the cargo you carry (in general). The T1 industrials just don't have the EHP to survive as well as an orca or freighter (and even they are weak with the amount of dps thrown out now).

It is really the freighter line that should get a change.



If you want to risk transporting stuff afk through 25 jumps, thats up to you.

Transporting stuff 2 jumps though, that would help a ton. There's nothing like hauling for 4 hours back and forth in a Bestower because there's too much crap in there, and a freighter is either illogical (Can't fit into the wormhole), suicidal (lowsec/null jumps), or not available.

This guy got it right, least with the Deep Space Transport.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2968429#post2968429

That makes sense. Will the dev's do something like that. I don't know. But right now 90% of my time is taken up literally moving stuff in and out. A freighter can't be used in my case. So my quality of life drops from being available to move 300,000 m3 in a jump freighter, which takes 5 minutes, to moving 300,000 m3 in a bestower for the next 2 hours.

Yaay!!!!
Kasutra
No Vacancies
No Vacancies.
#16 - 2013-05-12 16:03:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Kasutra
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Plans we have for them so far is to have the same kind of treatment than we've done with the Mining Barges. Have one Industrial variation with good mobility, low EHP and low cargo for quickly moving things around, another with low mobility, low EHP and high cargo for bulk transport and the last one with good defenses but poor mobility / cargo to compensate.

Which of course poses a problem with Gallente industrials and their 5 variations - as CCP Fozzie keeps saying all the time, if all else fail we'll shuffle the last two unused Iteron variations to have a dedicated bay for Spiced Wine and Exoctic Dancers P

Having spent several seconds thinking about the issue, and therefore being highly qualified to speak on it, I think the "other" two could be used to just give the Gallente lineup more granularity than the others enjoy.

Itty 1 could be speedy, Itty 3 could be spacious, Itty 5 could be tanky (or whatever). Then Itty 2 could straddle the line between being speedy and spacious, the Itty 4 the one between being spacious and tanky.

The other races would instead enjoy more specialized ships (at the cost of the line only having two of the big roles). The Minmatar speedy indie would be the speediest, the Amarr tanky indie would be the tankiest, and so on.

Final thought: all the races should probably have a spacious indie, because yeah, that's why we bought the ticket to begin with.
Danni stark
#17 - 2013-05-12 16:18:20 UTC
Phoenix Jones wrote:
Actually the mining barge changes were very successful. It is a matter of opinion though.


not really, the mackinaw has the worst 0 attributes with regard to (ehp/cargo/yield) and the hulk has the worst of 2. that's not balanced in the slightest.
the fact that the skiff and procurer mine less than 10% of any given non mercoxit ore is also an indicator that the ship isn't used (arguably, because it's poorly balanced)

it's not an opinion, the numbers speak for themselves. i don't want to derail the thread, but you're wrong.

Ice Mining Skill Plan.
Phoenix Jones
Small-Arms Fire
#18 - 2013-05-12 16:40:22 UTC
Different conversation.

Eitherway. This needs to be addressed cause my logistic pilots are getting burned out. 6 million m3 in nothing but t1 industrials between a few guys would burn most people out.

Yaay!!!!
Tul Breetai
Impromptu Asset Requisition
#19 - 2013-05-12 17:15:28 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
We're changing the skill requirements for Industrials as with all other ships for Odyssey.


However, the roles / attributes themselves will have to stay as they are for a while longer - we initially planed for them to go in the expansion as well, but they slipped out due to lack of time.

Tech1 Industrial overhaul has a high priority on our balanc-o-meter though - once battleships are updated, they'll be the last tech1 sub-capital hulls that need to go through the Tiericide fires.

Plans we have for them so far is to have the same kind of treatment than we've done with the Mining Barges. Have one Industrial variation with good mobility, low EHP and low cargo for quickly moving things around, another with low mobility, low EHP and high cargo for bulk transport and the last one with good defenses but poor mobility / cargo to compensate.

Which of course poses a problem with Gallente industrials and their 5 variations - as CCP Fozzie keeps saying all the time, if all else fail we'll shuffle the last two unused Iteron variations to have a dedicated bay for Spiced Wine and Exoctic Dancers P

"ooooh nooooo what ever should we dooooo"

They currently are 5 shades of stats, right? Just use itty 2 and 4 for midrange stuff. Your problem is coming up with a shiny new amarr indy that'll make the empress proud.

There's nothing worse than an EVE player, generally considered to be top of the food chain in the MMO world, that cannot smacktalk with wit and coherency.
Ines Tegator
Serious Business Inc. Ltd. LLC. etc.
#20 - 2013-05-12 17:46:17 UTC
Make sure you keep some racial flavor to them- not that there's that much in the t1 line anyway. But don't forget when it comes to the t2 versions. Blockade runners have one of the best give/take dyamics between races of any ship, and freighters are nice as well (esp the JF's). Repurpose the DST's (preferably into mini-freighters, a role that's currently missing) and give BR's a tune up, but don't change the overall meta.

Overhaul Dscan!
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