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Commemoration for Karin Midular

Author
Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#1 - 2013-05-12 10:43:35 UTC
After all the political exploitation around the death of former Prime Minister and Chief Karin Midular, I believe, perhaps, that it is time for a more genuine ceremony to celebrate what she stood for, and to mourn her disappearance in due time. I am even surprised that no one already proposed something similar.

I am not one to write endless declarations. I just do think that something has to be done in her name which actually involves what she believed in, for once. And as much as I hope such a ceremony could remain peaceful enough, I do want it to be neutral.

Please keep in mind that what I offer is not official in any way. I do not know what has been planned by the Sebiestor tribe or the Republic in general in the matter. I just hope to see something done by capsuleers as well. In such a light, I would like to organize a commemoration of capsuleers in a close future.

The date has not been decided yet, as I still wish to find individuals that wish to make testimonies in her name and that would like to speak at the event. I must warn you, though, that any political agenda is not welcome in the speeches in question. If some of you are interested, please let me know. If some of you are interested in organizing the event as well, please let me know. I hope that more experienced people could help in the process.

I hope that the fact that I did not come with a clear idea in mind and am willing to invite people to actually take part in the ceremony is proof enough that I really want this to be the most apolitical as possible.

The place has also yet to be decided. It could be done in Pator, of course. Or in Yulai if it can make it easier for people that could not come for various reasons, otherwise. In both cases, the symbol is different and worthwhile, but it does not really matter in the great scheme of things.

In the hope to see some of you responding.

Best regards,
Farel.
Elsebeth Rhiannon
Gradient
Electus Matari
#2 - 2013-05-12 10:51:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Elsebeth Rhiannon
This is not for yours to do, Ammatar.

No commemoration by you would ever be "genuine". Moreover, how could a commemoration for Karin Midular to not be political? Political was what she was. She was our Leader, for all good gods and ancestors! To think that you as an outsider can lead some sort of "neutral, genuine, apolitical" ceremony for her is laughable and offensive.

If you truly wanted to do this, you would have quietly suggested it to someone who actually is in position to do this honorably, instead of trying to act as some sort of beneficiary to the tribe.

Go to hell.

Elsebeth Rhiannon
Sebiestor Tribe
Zsaryna Adrelana
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#3 - 2013-05-12 11:02:08 UTC
To be fair she does have a point.
Midular did more on the Matari end for Amarr-Minmatar peace than most, and I can respect her for that, even if I might be on the opposing side. I can still respect a good foe, and Midular's loss will be felt throughout the cluster. She was one of the few serious chances for peace between Amarr and Matari. I would at some point like to offer a wreath if that would be acceptable?

I do this for many reasons. I do it because I believe it is right. I do it because I will profit by it. These all consolidate into one reason: I do it because I can.

Elsebeth Rhiannon
Gradient
Electus Matari
#4 - 2013-05-12 11:12:32 UTC
Offer a wreath for her work for Amarr-Minmatar piece if you like. But do not pretend that an Ammatar or Amarrian doing so would be "apolitical".

Elsebeth
Zsaryna Adrelana
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#5 - 2013-05-12 11:18:11 UTC
Very well, evemail me the details for the ceremony whenever it happens and I shall endeavour to either attend personally or send a representative.

I do this for many reasons. I do it because I believe it is right. I do it because I will profit by it. These all consolidate into one reason: I do it because I can.

Arista Shahni
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#6 - 2013-05-12 12:18:53 UTC
Lyn Farel wrote:
If some of you are interested, please let me know. If some of you are interested in organizing the event as well, please let me know. I hope that more experienced people could help in the process.




Funny how quickly people overlook important parts of a missive to tell others to go to hell.

"I say that even as the holy and the righteous cannot rise beyond the highest which is in each one of you - so the wicked and the weak cannot fall lower than the lowest which is in you also.  And as a single leaf turns not yellow but with the silent knowledge of the whole tree, so the wrong-doer cannot do wrong without the hidden will of you all."

Teinyhr
Ourumur
#7 - 2013-05-12 12:32:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Teinyhr
We did hold a silent vigil over Matar the day her death was announced. I don't have all the stats at hand, but there were around 10-15 capsuleers and their respectivve ship crews in orbit paying their respects.

Sadly this small memorial in honor of her was vastly overshadowed by the Colelie incident later in the day.
Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#8 - 2013-05-12 12:50:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Lyn Farel
Elsebeth Rhiannon wrote:
This is not for yours to do, Ammatar.

No commemoration by you would ever be "genuine". Moreover, how could a commemoration for Karin Midular to not be political? Political was what she was. She was our Leader, for all good gods and ancestors! To think that you as an outsider can lead some sort of "neutral, genuine, apolitical" ceremony for her is laughable and offensive.

If you truly wanted to do this, you would have quietly suggested it to someone who actually is in position to do this honorably, instead of trying to act as some sort of beneficiary to the tribe.

Go to hell.

Elsebeth Rhiannon
Sebiestor Tribe


So that is all what you have to say ? Racial slurs ?

Well, I am sad to hear that from you, but if you are not interested then do not take part in it. Maybe some others will want to do so.

You could have done it instead of myself, you know. As I said above, I am not especially good at that kind of things. Had I actually been I would not have felt the need to ask for the help of others.

I think that you have not been yourself recently, which is understandable. But I would suggest you to read my message again, with unbiased eyes for once, and see that I specifically indicated that I do not claim to act on the behalf of the tribes. How they handle their official, true memorial to her name, is their own, and I have no rights to include myself in that.

I think I could however have been clearer. If not for the Minmatar especially, it is a recognition by the cluster at large. This is aimed at capsuleers of every allegiance (or without), not close parents or tribe members more than any other one. This is not aimed to be a Minmatar event nor a tribal one. This is purely a secular commemoration valuing what Karin Midular did for new Eden, and how New Eden can return the favor, at least, symbolically.
Elsebeth Rhiannon
Gradient
Electus Matari
#9 - 2013-05-12 13:03:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Elsebeth Rhiannon
I could have done it?

No.

An apolitical commemoration for what the Ray stood for and what she did for the cluster, is what you are trying to organize, by your own words. No one can do that. I have the sense to not even attempt. What she stood for and what she did was political in the highest sense of the word. If people want to come together and speak in her honor, they should speak with a political agenda. What could anyone, let alone anyone not Sebiestor, say of her that did not touch about her politics?

And if you think that the objection to an Ammatar or Amarrian presuming to do this for the capsuleer community is a "racial slur", that further suggests that you do not even understand what "political" means.

You see, when people claim to be "apolitical" when they speak of a public matter, what they actually mean is that only politics that agree with them will be allowed as "common sense" while politics disagreeing with them will be dismissed as "agendas". In your event - I am guessing - we would be allowed to talk about the peace the Ray struggled for and use that to call for cessation of all hostilities on all fronts, but we would not be allowed to talk about the ongoing war with the Empire except to call for its end, and we would not be allowed to demand justice for the Tribe if it meant expressing anger towards the Federation.

That is not apolitical. That is you choosing what politics are allowed. That is you organizing an event where you tell Sebiestor what they should feel and hope for in this situation.

And that is presumptuous, from an outsider, and an Ammatar to boot.

So, yes, go to hell.

Elsebeth Rhiannon
Sebiestor Tribe
Cipher7
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2013-05-12 13:03:23 UTC

While much light has been shed on the motivations of the Nefantar (colloquially "Ammatars") and perhaps one day the other tribes will welcome them back into the fold, the wounds are still too fresh.

As such, a rememberance hosted by an Ammatar would not be appropriate at this time, and I advise that it be postponed indefinitely for the good of future tribal relations.
Quinzel Nikulainen
Kokako Acquisitions
#11 - 2013-05-12 13:29:51 UTC
The actions and words of Elsebeth and the Republic loyalists recently have been enlightening.

Good luck, Lyn. I hope that more like-minded Minmatar make themselves known to help out in the preparations.

Ex-Kaalakiota citizen. Ex-Hyasyoda citizen. CEO of KŌKAK, a Nugoeihuvi affiliate corporation.

Teinyhr
Ourumur
#12 - 2013-05-12 13:43:28 UTC
Here is a couple of recorded camera drone images from the vigil.

We Remember
We Remember II

The turnout was surprisingly big and heartfelt considering how busy capsuleers generally are. Most stayed there for an hour or more.


That said, I have nothing against another commemorative event. There should be more. More people should know what kind of a person Midular was, what she believed in, and know what kind of light has been taken from the universe.
Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#13 - 2013-05-12 13:54:23 UTC
Thank you for the information, Ms Teinyhr. Your support is appreciated.

Elsebeth Rhiannon wrote:

You see, when people claim to be "apolitical" when they speak of a public matter, what they actually mean is that only politics that agree with them will be allowed as "common sense" while politics disagreeing with them will be dismissed as "agendas". In your event - I am guessing - we would be allowed to talk about the peace the Ray struggled for and use that to call for cessation of all hostilities on all fronts, but we would not be allowed to talk about the ongoing war with the Empire except to call for its end, and we would not be allowed to demand justice for the Tribe if it meant expressing anger towards the Federation.

That is not apolitical. That is you choosing what politics are allowed. That is you organizing an event where you tell Sebiestor what they should feel and hope for in this situation.

And that is presumptuous, from an outsider, and an Ammatar to boot.


The only one showing presumption here might well be yourself, considering you seem to know a lot about what I would supposedly allow or not.

Cipher7 wrote:

While much light has been shed on the motivations of the Nefantar (colloquially "Ammatars") and perhaps one day the other tribes will welcome them back into the fold, the wounds are still too fresh.

As such, a rememberance hosted by an Ammatar would not be appropriate at this time, and I advise that it be postponed indefinitely for the good of future tribal relations.


To that kind of ignorant and vitriolic answers, I will be brief:

1) I am no Nefantar, and barely half Ammatar by blood, if blood really means anything.

2) You are not to decide what is appropriate at the New Eden scale, no more than anyone else. This is not a tribal commemoration.
Fredfredbug4
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2013-05-12 14:04:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Fredfredbug4
Elsebeth Rhiannon wrote:
This is not for yours to do, Ammatar.

No commemoration by you would ever be "genuine". Moreover, how could a commemoration for Karin Midular to not be political? Political was what she was. She was our Leader, for all good gods and ancestors! To think that you as an outsider can lead some sort of "neutral, genuine, apolitical" ceremony for her is laughable and offensive.

If you truly wanted to do this, you would have quietly suggested it to someone who actually is in position to do this honorably, instead of trying to act as some sort of beneficiary to the tribe.

Go to hell.

Elsebeth Rhiannon
Sebiestor Tribe


Republic Hypocrisy 101

1. Accuse someone of racism or any form of discrimination
2. Act racist towards said person
3. ???
4. PROFIT!!!
5. Rinse, repeat.

If anything, the fact that even an Ammatar would like to honor Karin Midular and her legacy proves the extremely positive impact the poor woman had on New Eden. For someone with conflicting political beliefs to honor said politician is quite humble.

You should be happy that Ms. Farel is organizing a ceremony, if an unofficial and nontraditional one. Hell, if she wasn't organizing it and instead, protesting it, you would be shouting the same derogatory remarks.

Watch_ Fred Fred Frederation_ and stop [u]cryptozoologist[/u]! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it!

Caellach Marellus
Stormcrows
#15 - 2013-05-12 14:23:38 UTC
Arista Shahni wrote:
Lyn Farel wrote:
If some of you are interested, please let me know. If some of you are interested in organizing the event as well, please let me know. I hope that more experienced people could help in the process.




Funny how quickly people overlook important parts of a missive to tell others to go to hell.



Indeed, but then again some people have been showing clear incapability for rational thought and have been emotionally strung and coming out with uncharacteristic levels of ignorance as of late. I appreciate that the loss of the Ray of Matar has been a grieving blow beyond describable words, but those people should think to refrain from posting if they're incapable of doing anything but dishonouring her memory with such aggressive crap.

When your gut instincts tell you something is wrong, trust them. When your heart tells you something is right, ignore it, check with your brain first. Accept nothing, challenge everything.

Xindi Kraid
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#16 - 2013-05-12 14:25:00 UTC
Elsebeth Rhiannon wrote:
This is not for yours to do, Ammatar.

No commemoration by you would ever be "genuine". Moreover, how could a commemoration for Karin Midular to not be political? Political was what she was. She was our Leader, for all good gods and ancestors! To think that you as an outsider can lead some sort of "neutral, genuine, apolitical" ceremony for her is laughable and offensive.

If you truly wanted to do this, you would have quietly suggested it to someone who actually is in position to do this honorably, instead of trying to act as some sort of beneficiary to the tribe.

Go to hell.

Elsebeth Rhiannon
Sebiestor Tribe

No wonder you attack your own allies when you can't comprehend the ability of someone to show respect for others outside their group.
Arista Shahni
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#17 - 2013-05-12 16:44:13 UTC
Caellach Marellus wrote:
Arista Shahni wrote:
Lyn Farel wrote:
If some of you are interested, please let me know. If some of you are interested in organizing the event as well, please let me know. I hope that more experienced people could help in the process.




Funny how quickly people overlook important parts of a missive to tell others to go to hell.



Indeed, but then again some people have been showing clear incapability for rational thought and have been emotionally strung and coming out with uncharacteristic levels of ignorance as of late. I appreciate that the loss of the Ray of Matar has been a grieving blow beyond describable words, but those people should think to refrain from posting if they're incapable of doing anything but dishonouring her memory with such aggressive crap.


I'm sorry -- who exactly is being aggressive? Perhaps the way I define our common language is different than yours. Please do explain.

"I say that even as the holy and the righteous cannot rise beyond the highest which is in each one of you - so the wicked and the weak cannot fall lower than the lowest which is in you also.  And as a single leaf turns not yellow but with the silent knowledge of the whole tree, so the wrong-doer cannot do wrong without the hidden will of you all."

Anabella Rella
Gradient
Electus Matari
#18 - 2013-05-12 18:02:09 UTC
I support the words of Elsebeth Rhiannon. All the rest of you bigots, bloviators and blowhards can indeed go straight to hell.

When the world is running down, you make the best of what's still around.

Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#19 - 2013-05-12 18:36:02 UTC
Arista Shahni wrote:
Caellach Marellus wrote:
Arista Shahni wrote:
Lyn Farel wrote:
If some of you are interested, please let me know. If some of you are interested in organizing the event as well, please let me know. I hope that more experienced people could help in the process.




Funny how quickly people overlook important parts of a missive to tell others to go to hell.



Indeed, but then again some people have been showing clear incapability for rational thought and have been emotionally strung and coming out with uncharacteristic levels of ignorance as of late. I appreciate that the loss of the Ray of Matar has been a grieving blow beyond describable words, but those people should think to refrain from posting if they're incapable of doing anything but dishonouring her memory with such aggressive crap.


I'm sorry -- who exactly is being aggressive? Perhaps the way I define our common language is different than yours. Please do explain.


I think there might be a misunderstanding: Mr Marellus was probably and actually emphasizing on your words, and not the opposite.

Anabella Rella wrote:
I support the words of Elsebeth Rhiannon. All the rest of you bigots, bloviators and blowhards can indeed go straight to hell.


Not unexpected, but I am sorry to hear it as well.

It just proves my point.
Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#20 - 2013-05-12 18:40:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Lyn Farel
I have been thinking a bit more on the location for the event. Considering there has already been a vigil in Pator, and that most of the answers that I got from Minmatar loyalists for now have been a clear negative, I would tend to favor Yulai above Pator.

Feel free to object if you have other ideas.
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