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The Future Of The Rorqual
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Rebecha Pucontis
Doomheim
#1 - 2013-05-12 05:29:48 UTC
Greetings all. I've been wondering for some time how to make best use of the abilities of this great ship. Currently I have used them only in a POS for compressing ore, but not much else, which seems a shame for a ship which has so many potential uses if it were not for the fact that you are forced to siege for 5 minutes to get the most of its abilities.

In considering this, I was wondering on what exactly the future will hold for the Rorqual. It seems for definite with the removal of OGB intended that it will see some changes for certain. And I am sure CCP are aware that most people simply keep them tucked up safe behind a POS shield, and I think they may want to change this. Seeing as more Rorquals tempted into belts away from the safety of the POS shield, means more fun for everyone, and right now the risk/reward is rarely worth it.

My conclusion would be that CCP completely remove the need for the Rorqual to be sieged to use its abilities. The other option would be to somehow give the rorqual an ability to temporarily create a mobile POS shield which will run when the industrial core runs. Not sure how that would work though.

I wondered if anyone else had any ideas on what they'd like to see, seeing as change is almost certainly going to happen. And also has CCP mentioned anything regarding this, except for their intention to remove OGB.
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#2 - 2013-05-12 05:57:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
Not actually a new topic, but as a Rorqual owner, I'll bite:

If mining links become on-grid like the other links (they may not), then the majority of Rorqual will probably stay in POS force fields and no longer be used for boosting.

The best defense for an on-grid Rorqual is a cyno generator (a 50% duration reduction would be nice, but I doubt if it would ever happen).

Still I'd like to see:
* Increased local shield repping (possibly remote as well), capacitor recharge, and resistances when deployed.
* Greatly increased drone bay capacity, just under the volume of 1 fighter.
* Another mid slot, so that fitting a scanner was practical.

Would be nice for Capital Tractor Beams to be actually used.
Britta Nolen
Sama Guild
#3 - 2013-05-12 06:05:00 UTC
Yeah, its defense would have to be improved {ie to where it can tank 2 supers easily} in exchange for nuetered offience. The ore and corp hangar bays should also be expanded by atleast 3x.
mechtech
Ice Liberation Army
#4 - 2013-05-12 06:08:27 UTC
I like the increased risk from going into siege. The idea is that you should bring along combat support to support the mining fleet, or at least have support on call.

If the risk/reward is off, the reward should be increased a bit! A capital industrial ship should intuitively be the most lumbering, slow ship in the game.

Maybe have a slight boost when unsieged, and a 200% boost when sieged, so it's still a bit useful in higher risk situations.
Lugia3
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2013-05-12 07:05:14 UTC
Britta Nolen wrote:
Yeah, its defense would have to be improved {ie to where it can tank 2 supers easily} in exchange for nuetered offience. The ore and corp hangar bays should also be expanded by atleast 3x.


Ever heard of "balance"? Yeah, you're not doing it right.

"CCP Dolan is full of shit." - CCP Bettik
Rebecha Pucontis
Doomheim
#6 - 2013-05-12 07:05:32 UTC
Yes I pretty much agree. I actually think the rorqual has pretty good offensive capabilities right now, and defensively it isn't bad either at at all. The big thing for me though is you are stuck for 5 minutes so once you commit the ship to a siege cycle there is really no way to react to the enemy.

In my eyes the rorqual is actually a pretty good combat support vessel for the mining fleet in its own right and should be able to see off smaller ships by itself. But then if you see a suspicious ship and expect a hotdrop, then I think it would be nice to have the chance to halt the mining operation and withdrawl.

I'd be really interested to hear what CCP thoughts are on the way forward with this ship. Its a shame no one asked about it at fanfest.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#7 - 2013-05-12 07:08:21 UTC  |  Edited by: James Amril-Kesh
I'm of the opinion that forcing boosts in general on grid is dumb, but CCP would have to be ******** to force mining boosts on grid without at least moving the Rorqual's boosting bonuses from the Industrial Core to the hull itself.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Rebecha Pucontis
Doomheim
#8 - 2013-05-12 07:09:56 UTC
mechtech wrote:
I like the increased risk from going into siege. The idea is that you should bring along combat support to support the mining fleet, or at least have support on call.

The trouble with this is that most alliances can call an unlimited number of capitals very quickly and the fight will continually escalate until you've lost. So for a small entity you really have no chance. Hence the reason I don't think allowing cyno abilities on the rorqual will help much for most people either.

Now perhaps this is intended and CCP want the use of Rorquals to be for only large alliances, but I think it would be nice if smaller entities could utilise them fully in the belts also.
Rebecha Pucontis
Doomheim
#9 - 2013-05-12 07:20:24 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
I'm of the opinion that forcing boosts in general on grid is dumb, but CCP would have to be ******** to force mining boosts on grid without at least moving the Rorqual's boosting bonuses from the Industrial Core to the hull itself.

Yes indeed. Which is why I came to the conclusion will end up removing most of the abilities currently tied to the industrial core to the hull instead. I reckon they will just leave the compression perhaps on the core. Seems like the most logical thing to do when you consider all the possibilities.
Danni stark
#10 - 2013-05-12 08:46:02 UTC
mechtech wrote:
I like the increased risk from going into siege. The idea is that you should bring along combat support to support the mining fleet, or at least have support on call.

If the risk/reward is off, the reward should be increased a bit! A capital industrial ship should intuitively be the most lumbering, slow ship in the game.

Maybe have a slight boost when unsieged, and a 200% boost when sieged, so it's still a bit useful in higher risk situations.



well no, because of how supply and demand works increasing the bonus to flood the market with minerals just results in minerals being worth less so your isk/hour is largely unchanged as you're mining a higher volume for less isk/volume.

the reward is fine, the risk is the issue. as has been said, the bonus needs to be moved from the industrial core to the hull itself.

Ice Mining Skill Plan.
iskflakes
#11 - 2013-05-12 09:28:26 UTC
Reduce cycle time to 60 seconds, alter fuel use accordingly.

If an organized mining operation puts in effort to defending it (cyno jammer, defensive bubbles, intel channels) it will be nearly completely safe.

-
ElQuirko
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2013-05-12 11:38:47 UTC  |  Edited by: ElQuirko
Britta Nolen wrote:
Yeah, its defense would have to be improved {ie to where it can tank 2 supers easily} in exchange for nuetered offience.


...wut? A sieged Moros melts easily (within a minute or two) in the face of two nyxes' fighterbombers. You think a Rorqual, a ship built for industry, should have a thicker tank than a ship built for sitting in range of and getting six kinds of excrement kicked out of it by POS guns whilst shooting at a tower?

Dodixie > Hek
I Love Boobies
All Hail Boobies
#13 - 2013-05-12 11:58:08 UTC
Use it in fleet engagements. There was just a killmail where a titan was taken down, and a Rorqual participated, he he he. Thought that was funny.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#14 - 2013-05-12 12:04:20 UTC
I'd like to see it's compression ratio adjusted accordingly to actually make it more viable than producing a bunch of large guns for compression.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
NEONOVUS
Mindstar Technology
Goonswarm Federation
#15 - 2013-05-12 12:10:32 UTC
Mining links != warfare links

Mining links will remain anywhere in system while combat links will become on grid only
Rebecha Pucontis
Doomheim
#16 - 2013-05-12 12:37:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Rebecha Pucontis
I Love Boobies wrote:
Use it in fleet engagements. There was just a killmail where a titan was taken down, and a Rorqual participated, he he he. Thought that was funny.

They are actually badass killing machines if you look at the stats which is the cool thing about them. But everyone is too scared to use them due to the 5 minute siege timer.
Aemonchichi
Limited Access
#17 - 2013-05-12 12:37:28 UTC
NEONOVUS wrote:
Mining links != warfare links

Mining links will remain anywhere in system while combat links will become on grid only


the only way it makes sense, there can never be a reward in mining making up for the risk bringing a rorqual in

if ccp doesnt do it like this the rorqual is a useless ship
Rebecha Pucontis
Doomheim
#18 - 2013-05-12 12:40:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Rebecha Pucontis
Aemonchichi wrote:
NEONOVUS wrote:
Mining links != warfare links

Mining links will remain anywhere in system while combat links will become on grid only


the only way it makes sense, there can never be a reward in mining making up for the risk bringing a rorqual in

if ccp doesnt do it like this the rorqual is a useless ship

I think your both missing the point. What would be good for the game and for everyone, is to enable rorquals to come out of the POS shield. Simply making them not affected by the OGB nerf would be like putting a bandage on the problem. People would still just keep them under the POS shield.
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2013-05-12 12:41:22 UTC
Danni stark wrote:
mechtech wrote:
I like the increased risk from going into siege. The idea is that you should bring along combat support to support the mining fleet, or at least have support on call.

If the risk/reward is off, the reward should be increased a bit! A capital industrial ship should intuitively be the most lumbering, slow ship in the game.

Maybe have a slight boost when unsieged, and a 200% boost when sieged, so it's still a bit useful in higher risk situations.



well no, because of how supply and demand works increasing the bonus to flood the market with minerals just results in minerals being worth less so your isk/hour is largely unchanged as you're mining a higher volume for less isk/volume.

the reward is fine, the risk is the issue. as has been said, the bonus needs to be moved from the industrial core to the hull itself.


So wait you have to go into siege in order for the mining boosts to work? Or just for ore compression?
Rebecha Pucontis
Doomheim
#20 - 2013-05-12 12:45:15 UTC
Derath Ellecon wrote:
So wait you have to go into siege in order for the mining boosts to work? Or just for ore compression?

Currently for mining boosts you need to be sieged.
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