Ships & Modules

I remember what the original issues were, and I remember giving up on the thread where it was being discussed because it was just too noisy for reasonable conversation. I also remember that my preferred solution was a mild nerf to lasers instead of a boost to projectiles. At any rate, they attempted to boost projectiles (As a weapon platform) to be equal to lasers (as a weapon platform). IMO, they succeeded - but what is most of the time overlooked is that Pulse ships (as a whole) are mildly inferior to AC ships.

I think when you take everything into account, they probably should have simultaneously purified damage types as well as added falloff by tier. The Hybrid changes look unexciting, but I'd hesitate to go nerfing the crap out of Projectiles until the changes from that are pretty well panned out.

-Liang

PS: Anyone got a link to the new EFT thread? I have been out of game for a while now.... :)

Got it. Thanks! Good to see you're up and about - though I'm mildly surprised to see you suggesting a Projectile nerf. :)

-Liang

Dramiel? I think you may have an issue with your ability to use your eyes.

HOLY **** LIANG IS BACK!

Good, I used to fly Ruppies and Rifters in FW before the projectile buff. It was simply hopeless. All those who could, flew Amarr or Gallente due to Minnie tank and dps being weak.

Even today, in FW, whenever there is a medium (for FW sizes) gang fight of say 30 vs 30, it's Amarr BS that are most used and get the most damage and survive the longest due to Guardians.

In other words, no.

First, this:


Second:
I'm in favor of both a laser and a projectile nerf.

My favored projectile nerf is to reduce T2 tracking computers/tracking enhancers falloff bonus to 20% or maybe 25% instead of 30%, and then leave it at that. That means that if I want to orbit at 20km in a cane, I should be using barrage, instead of sticking to EMP. As it is right now, it makes little difference either way.

My favored laser nerf is to reduce scorch damage to the same as either standard, or navy standard. As it is now, I use (navy) multifrequency, rarely x-ray, and then scorch. I never, ever use anything in between. This would make it so that there is sometimes a point in carrying something other than multi and scorch, which at the moment there isn't. It would also reduce the dps of pulse lasers to the point where if you are consistantly trying to hammer people from beyond about 20km on a non-optimal bonused hull, you would probably be better off using lasers.

These two nerfs combined would keep the 2 weapon systems pretty balanced combared to each other, and making there be some poing of using longrange weapons again, which 90% of the time there isn't anymore. It would also start to bring them back closer to the range that blasters operate in, so that way hopefully with the upcoming hybrid buffs they will actually be able to catch their targets and damage them, provided that you have good piloting skills.

As for longrange weapons... lets see how the hybrid buff turns out before addressing anything more there.

-Arazel

Honestly, this is nonsense. The most skill point-intensive race is Caldari.

Caldari have three lines of ships, each using a different and mutually non-SP-supporting weapon - hybrids, missiles and ECM. There are no shared support skills between hybrids and missiles, and the missile skill tree is longer than any single turret weapon tree.

What do Minmatar have? Armour and shield, sure, but competence in both is not a large SP sink, and your average Scorpion needs to be able to armour tank when needed. Projectiles, that's equal to hybrids as a SP-sink. No great focus on drones for either race. No real purpose in specialising in target painting, unlike ECM. Minmatar have only two non-SB ship that use missiles to any extent. On one of these (Cyclone), they're very much an optional extra, and the Typhoon works fine with projectiles.

Errr what damage buff to Minmatar Projectiles?

Fusion and Phased Plasma got buffed to be EQUAL in damage to EMP since they had the same disadvantages, the ammo was also made a bit smaller. Compared to using EMP previously there was no damage boost.

Because AC optimal was the smallest and the Arty optimal is the smallest of the long range guns, TEs + TCs prior to the change were practically pointless, they basically just added a bit of tracking and that was it. Now they are actually useful and can just about do some damage at long range, however its normally down to about 10-20% max DPS and ONLY if you half gimp yourself in other aspects to do this. Why are there complaints that ACs/Arties can finally increase their range via modules? Compared to a equivilent laser with the same number of TEs/TCs the Laser is going to always be more effective at range and far more easily able to switch crystals to keep max DPS on the target.

Minmatar have massive problems as soon as you remove their ability to move quickly, look at the Vaga's stats for example, its got 40k EHP with maxed skills and a good fit and only putting out a MAXIMUM of 500dps at point blank range, thats when it HASN'T been fitted out for max speed. The faster Vagas you see are often fit down to 25k EHP tank, less than some T1 cruisers. They maybe be harder to catch but it takes much less to drive them off, a single drake is a match for a vaga that tries it's luck, a zealot would however do nasty things to the same drake, particually if its AB fit.

Different ships for different roles, minmatar do work best in the skirmish, hard to catch but crap face to face role, thats how their ships are designed. Amarr ships are the slower, work better in massive fleets and combine fire better.

If we follow through with your suggestions then you have to nerf Minmatar for smaller gangs and buff them in bigger gangs, so basically make all the races an exact copy of the Amarr....... would that make you happy? Because thats the only way to make all the races balanced equally in all areas.

OH NO vaga cant solo a drake := lets boost matar !!!

Fixed.