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Gnosis: Why is it so Terrible
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Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#61 - 2013-05-10 22:43:37 UTC
There should be similar ships in all sizes, exploration/science vessels with enough versatility and power to function for combat in a pinch but geared towards being able to solo/duo exploration content.

Hopefully this ship is just the first step to meet CCP's claim to want to make Eve into a place where players can get that childish gleam of amazement back in their eyes as they (re)discover the world in earnest.
Anyura
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#62 - 2013-05-10 22:51:36 UTC
This free ship is utterly terrible and I want my money back right now, goddamn it. Evil
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#63 - 2013-05-10 23:00:03 UTC
For all the skill it takes to fly and how much CCP charged me it should be uber powerful! Give me back my money and all the skill points I wasted learning to fly it back NOW!
Ireland VonVicious
Vicious Trading Company
#64 - 2013-05-11 00:27:10 UTC
For us gurista pilots this is a a god send.

The few people who have invested large amounts of SP in shields/missiles/drones finally got a battle cruiser we can use.

If fitted well this thing is amazing. If anything it's over powered not under powered.

If you have yet to figure out how to fit this thing properly that's on you.
Innabiggahurry
Doomheim
#65 - 2013-05-11 04:26:01 UTC
Mavnas wrote:
Yes, pretty amazing how the guy with all 5s in all racial cruisers and BC 5 would fail to notice this. Oh, wait...

What I have always wanted is a ship that could passive shield tank and shoot lasers, sadly the gnosis doesn't do an adequate job of passive shield tanking without a few SPRs. Needless to say that doesn't work so well with shooting lasers.

What you've always wanted? Someone who has all 5s? Man, you're crazy. I cannot believe you even posted this.
Felicity Love
Doomheim
#66 - 2013-05-11 23:35:44 UTC
This is a great ship but I hope CCP will make the BPC version slightly and noticeably weaker -- sort of a "reverse engineered" version that our non-Jovian technology can build.

If this is truly supposed to be a Jovian ship, then I would like to see some distinction made between the hulls given out and the hulls that pilots can build -- because we're not supposed to have that level of technical ability, or so the "fluff" always says.

"EVE is dying." -- The Four Forum Trolls of the Apocalypse.   ( Pick four, any four. They all smell.  )
Garresh
Mackies Raiders
Wild Geese.
#67 - 2013-05-12 02:06:34 UTC
It's not Jovian. It's already a reverse engineered Jovian ship. That's the "weak" version. lol.


I rather like the theory that it's the Jovian rookie ship, though. Lol

This Space Intentionally Left Blank
Verity Sovereign
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#68 - 2013-05-13 10:56:29 UTC
IIshira wrote:
For all the skill it takes to fly and how much CCP charged me it should be uber powerful! Give me back my money and all the skill points I wasted learning to fly it back NOW!



Ok, if you give your Gnosis (or Gnosii) to me, I will refund all the SP and ISK you spent to buy/build the ship, and train for it.

Shall I make the contract, or do you wish to make it?
If I make it, I need to know how many of this ship you posses.
Mick Arthir
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
#69 - 2013-05-27 12:25:56 UTC
Did anyone notice that repairs on the Gnosis are for free? Yes, I have needed them...noob myself. That must be a bug, right?
Jojo Jackson
Dead Red Eye
#70 - 2013-05-27 16:11:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Jojo Jackson
You do notice, that the Gnosis is better then the Prophesy?

low slots: 7 <-> 7
med slots: 7 <-> 4
high slots: 6 <-> 5
weapons: 5 with bonus <-> 4
drones: 50m³ bonused <-> 75m³ bonused (5 med v 3 heavy)

shield: 5000 <-> 3000
armor: 5000 <-> 5500 (with resi bonus)

Over all you get a tiny bit less tank with MUCH more flexibility (4 slots more) and MUCH more DPS (7,5 laser|hybrid|missile|projektil <-> 4 laser) which is not depending on one weapon system.

[Gnosis, nice level 3 runner]
3*Tracking Enhancer II
3*Gyrostabilizer II

10MN Microwarpdrive II
2*Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Large Shield Extender II
Medium Shield Booster II
Shield Boost Amplifier II

5*425mm AutoCannon II, EMP M
[empty high slot]

3*Medium Core Defense Field Extender I

Hammerhead II x5

Why the hell can't I fitt capital repairs or shield booster on an Orca ... it's an CAPITAL ship!
Skelee VI
Appetite 4 Destruction
#71 - 2013-05-27 19:35:50 UTC
Dont like your gnosis, contract it to me!
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#72 - 2013-05-27 21:23:52 UTC
Jojo Jackson wrote:
You do notice, that the Gnosis is better then the Prophesy?

low slots: 7 <-> 7
med slots: 7 <-> 4
high slots: 6 <-> 5
weapons: 5 with bonus <-> 4
drones: 50m³ bonused <-> 75m³ bonused (5 med v 3 heavy)

shield: 5000 <-> 3000
armor: 5000 <-> 5500 (with resi bonus)

Over all you get a tiny bit less tank with MUCH more flexibility (4 slots more) and MUCH more DPS (7,5 laser|hybrid|missile|projektil <-> 4 laser) which is not depending on one weapon system.

[Gnosis, nice level 3 runner]
3*Tracking Enhancer II
3*Gyrostabilizer II

10MN Microwarpdrive II
2*Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Large Shield Extender II
Medium Shield Booster II
Shield Boost Amplifier II

5*425mm AutoCannon II, EMP M
[empty high slot]

3*Medium Core Defense Field Extender I

Hammerhead II x5


1. You don't compare 3 heavies with 5 mediums. Since we're doing theoretical EFT fits you will use 2 heavies 2 mediums and a light on the prophecy.

2. Prophecy does not (should not) use laz0rs. They are unbonused and projectiles are much easier to fit and dont use cap.

3. Who cares about the shield amount on prophecy when it's an armour tanked ship.

4. Why on earth are you using an LSE on an active tank setup.

5. Why on earth are you using core extender rigs on an active tank setup

6. Prophecy does more damage and tanks more.

7. You're right about versatility though.

Art of Explosions
Jojo Jackson
Dead Red Eye
#73 - 2013-05-27 23:04:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Jojo Jackson
Damn forum eat my text AGAIN :(. Stupid draft-****.

My Gnosis setup was a quick'n'dirty setup. Just replace the shield-extender stuff with active-stuff. (second amp, core def rigs).

2/2/1 drone setups are terror-craft setups! They are not practical in reality.

If you use compareble setups (3 damage mods) Prophecy LOSES. Less DPS with less def at the same time.
Prophecy 5 med, 3 drone damage mods, rep, DC, 2 EANM, 4 425mm = 527 DPS, 215 rep, 45,6k EHP... MWD + 3 med slots unused, rep rigs.
606 DPS with 3 heavys, 581 DPS with 3 sentry.
Gnosis 5 med, 3 drone damage, med booster, 2*amp, 2*invu = 600 dps, 250 boost, 25.7k EHP ... MWD + boost rigs, 3 low slots unused
673 DPS with 5 neutron Blaster, 623 DPS with 5 heavy Pulse.
You still have 3 lowslots for GyroStabs or whatever (732 DPS with 5*425mm then but CPU probs). And for Missions EHP isn't that important, just nice to have sometimes ;).

If you use defens only Prophecy has far more def, right. But not even half the DPS.

Why the hell can't I fitt capital repairs or shield booster on an Orca ... it's an CAPITAL ship!
Kazumi Kouvo
Paragons of Starlight
#74 - 2013-05-27 23:27:08 UTC
Not enough cap for Lasers? My alt has lasers, a DCU, and a Medium repper and it's cap stable.
Not enough CPU? My alt also has lasers, a HAM, armor mods, and Cap rechargers.

Gnosis fit

Damage Control Unit II
Prototype Energized Adaptive Membrane I
Medium Armor Repairer II
Dark Blood Adaptive Nano Plating
2x Heat Sink II

Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Large Shield Extender II

Heavy Pulse Laser II @ Conflagration
Heavy Pulse Laser II @ Conflagration
Heavy Pulse Laser II @ Conflagration
Heavy Pulse Laser II @ Conflagration
Heavy Pulse Laser II @ Conflagration
Prototype 'Arbalest' Heavy Assault Missile Launcher @ Scourge Heavy Assault Missile

Medium Anti-EM Pump I
Medium Anti-Thermic Pump I
Medium Anti-Kinetic Pump I

Hammerhead II
Hammerhead II
Hammerhead II
Hammerhead II
Hammerhead II

Cap stable at 2.5%
577.1 DPS

I'm 13 and I play EVE. I hope that doesn't change the way you fly in fleets with me. :3

Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#75 - 2013-05-27 23:37:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Tsukino Stareine
Kazumi Kouvo wrote:
Not enough cap for Lasers? My alt has lasers, a DCU, and a Medium repper and it's cap stable.
Not enough CPU? My alt also has lasers, a HAM, armor mods, and Cap rechargers.

Gnosis fit

Damage Control Unit II
Prototype Energized Adaptive Membrane I
Medium Armor Repairer II
Dark Blood Adaptive Nano Plating
2x Heat Sink II

Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Large Shield Extender II

Heavy Pulse Laser II @ Conflagration
Heavy Pulse Laser II @ Conflagration
Heavy Pulse Laser II @ Conflagration
Heavy Pulse Laser II @ Conflagration
Heavy Pulse Laser II @ Conflagration
Prototype 'Arbalest' Heavy Assault Missile Launcher @ Scourge Heavy Assault Missile

Medium Anti-EM Pump I
Medium Anti-Thermic Pump I
Medium Anti-Kinetic Pump I

Hammerhead II
Hammerhead II
Hammerhead II
Hammerhead II
Hammerhead II

Cap stable at 2.5%
577.1 DPS


what on earth is that for exactly?

Jojo Jackson wrote:
Damn forum eat my text AGAIN :(. Stupid draft-****.

My Gnosis setup was a quick'n'dirty setup. Just replace the shield-extender stuff with active-stuff. (second amp, core def rigs).

2/2/1 drone setups are terror-craft setups! They are not practical in reality.

If you use compareble setups (3 damage mods) Prophecy LOSES. Less DPS with less def at the same time.
Prophecy 5 med, 3 drone damage mods, rep, DC, 2 EANM, 4 425mm = 527 DPS, 215 rep, 45,6k EHP... MWD + 3 med slots unused, rep rigs.
606 DPS with 3 heavys, 581 DPS with 3 sentry.
Gnosis 5 med, 3 drone damage, med booster, 2*amp, 2*invu = 600 dps, 250 boost, 25.7k EHP ... MWD + boost rigs, 3 low slots unused
673 DPS with 5 neutron Blaster, 623 DPS with 5 heavy Pulse.
You still have 3 lowslots for GyroStabs or whatever (732 DPS with 5*425mm then but CPU probs). And for Missions EHP isn't that important, just nice to have sometimes ;).

If you use defens only Prophecy has far more def, right. But not even half the DPS.


Your fits are terrible for pve. Short range means you will burn yourself out of cap getting to each rat with mwd on almost full time and medium drones being shot up all the time unless you only deploy them onto things you're already next to...

This is a real fit:

[Gnosis, test]
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II

10MN Afterburner II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Dread Guristas Large Shield Booster
Republic Fleet Shield Boost Amplifier
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II

720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion M
720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion M
720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion M
720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion M
720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion M
[empty high slot]

Medium Core Defense Capacitor Safeguard I
Medium Projectile Locus Coordinator I
Medium Projectile Ambit Extension I


Garde II x2
Hobgoblin II x5

22+42 range with the 290 burst tank means everything is safe and easy. Totals 497 DPS at 21km and around 450 at 37km garde range. Furthest feasible engagement range is around 45km but best to be within 40 for optimal damage.

Now reason why artillery: this fit doesnt work with any other weapon type since the active shield fit means very little cpu left for weapons.

Art of Explosions
Jojo Jackson
Dead Red Eye
#76 - 2013-05-27 23:51:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Jojo Jackson
[Gnosis, Laser Level 3 Mission]
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II

10MN Microwarpdrive II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Shield Boost Amplifier II
Shield Boost Amplifier II
Gistum C-Type Medium Shield Booster

Heavy Pulse Laser II, Multifrequency M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Multifrequency M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Multifrequency M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Multifrequency M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Multifrequency M
[empty high slot]

Medium Processor Overclocking Unit I
Medium Semiconductor Memory Cell I
Medium Semiconductor Memory Cell I

Hammerhead II x5

Nice too. 683 DPS, 201 boost, cap for all active 1m47s.
655 DPS with scorch, 29+8.2 laser range.

Why the hell can't I fitt capital repairs or shield booster on an Orca ... it's an CAPITAL ship!
Kazumi Kouvo
Paragons of Starlight
#77 - 2013-05-28 00:03:53 UTC
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
[quote=Kazumi Kouvo]Not enough cap for Lasers? My alt has lasers, a DCU, and a Medium repper and it's cap stable.
Not enough CPU? My alt also has lasers, a HAM, armor mods, and Cap rechargers.

Gnosis fit

Damage Control Unit II
Prototype Energized Adaptive Membrane I
Medium Armor Repairer II
Dark Blood Adaptive Nano Plating
2x Heat Sink II

Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Large Shield Extender II

Heavy Pulse Laser II @ Conflagration
Heavy Pulse Laser II @ Conflagration
Heavy Pulse Laser II @ Conflagration
Heavy Pulse Laser II @ Conflagration
Heavy Pulse Laser II @ Conflagration
Prototype 'Arbalest' Heavy Assault Missile Launcher @ Scourge Heavy Assault Missile

Medium Anti-EM Pump I
Medium Anti-Thermic Pump I
Medium Anti-Kinetic Pump I

Hammerhead II
Hammerhead II
Hammerhead II
Hammerhead II
Hammerhead II

Cap stable at 2.5%
577.1 DPS


what on earth is that for exactly?

Level 2/3s/Ratting.

I'm 13 and I play EVE. I hope that doesn't change the way you fly in fleets with me. :3

Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#78 - 2013-05-28 00:08:17 UTC
Kazumi Kouvo wrote:
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
[quote=Kazumi Kouvo]Not enough cap for Lasers? My alt has lasers, a DCU, and a Medium repper and it's cap stable.
Not enough CPU? My alt also has lasers, a HAM, armor mods, and Cap rechargers.

Gnosis fit

Damage Control Unit II
Prototype Energized Adaptive Membrane I
Medium Armor Repairer II
Dark Blood Adaptive Nano Plating
2x Heat Sink II

Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Large Shield Extender II

Heavy Pulse Laser II @ Conflagration
Heavy Pulse Laser II @ Conflagration
Heavy Pulse Laser II @ Conflagration
Heavy Pulse Laser II @ Conflagration
Heavy Pulse Laser II @ Conflagration
Prototype 'Arbalest' Heavy Assault Missile Launcher @ Scourge Heavy Assault Missile

Medium Anti-EM Pump I
Medium Anti-Thermic Pump I
Medium Anti-Kinetic Pump I

Hammerhead II
Hammerhead II
Hammerhead II
Hammerhead II
Hammerhead II

Cap stable at 2.5%
577.1 DPS


what on earth is that for exactly?

Level 2/3s/Ratting.


So you fly around at 150m/s to attempt to get within 12km of things then realise you cant hit frigates with heavy pulses at that range and then all your hammerheads die while trying to kill them and then you have to warp out and get more?

Sounds awesome.

Art of Explosions
Jojo Jackson
Dead Red Eye
#79 - 2013-05-28 11:14:33 UTC
Tsukino Stareine wrote:

Your fits are terrible for pve. Short range means you will burn yourself out of cap getting to each rat with mwd on almost full time and medium drones being shot up all the time unless you only deploy them onto things you're already next to...

If you didn't notice the Gnosis has enough drone bay for one set of med and on set of light. I thought people understand it even if I don't put the 5 light in the drone bay ... my fault *g*.
And the range is absolut fine. Most level 3 missions don't need anythink above 30km anyway. And if you didn't read it .. I named it LEVEL 3 FIT! Cap is no problem even if you activate the MWD frequently. Fly some amarr ships and you will learn how to manage your cap ;).

Tsukino Stareine wrote:

This is a real fit:

[Gnosis, test]
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II

10MN Afterburner II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Dread Guristas Large Shield Booster
Republic Fleet Shield Boost Amplifier
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II

720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion M
720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion M
720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion M
720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion M
720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion M
[empty high slot]

Medium Core Defense Capacitor Safeguard I
Medium Projectile Locus Coordinator I
Medium Projectile Ambit Extension I


Garde II x2
Hobgoblin II x5

22+42 range with the 290 burst tank means everything is safe and easy. Totals 497 DPS at 21km and around 450 at 37km garde range. Furthest feasible engagement range is around 45km but best to be within 40 for optimal damage.

Now reason why artillery: this fit doesnt work with any other weapon type since the active shield fit means very little cpu left for weapons.

Realy? This is a terrible slow setup for Level 3 missions. And even for ratting it's terrible slow.
4 gyros + 2 TE might look cool in EFT, ingame 3+3 is MUCH better and faster!
720mm do have a cool alpha .. but wast of cycle time if you alpha a 500 hp frig for 3000 *g*. And as soon as they are at 10km or less you don't hit them anymore.

Short:
- most level 3 mission don't need range above 30km which you can reach with Autocanons
- high alpha against level 3 ships is massive overkill
- sentrys ?? against what ?? I know only 1 level 3 storryline where you fight against battleships
- Faction booster + boost amp ... this two mods cost more then the hole ship. As long as you don't realy know what you do => FAIL as you will be ganged within hours ;)

If you attack other with "Your fits are terrible for pve." you should at last try to bring some real fits and no troll stuff.

Why the hell can't I fitt capital repairs or shield booster on an Orca ... it's an CAPITAL ship!
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#80 - 2013-05-28 12:35:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Tsukino Stareine
Jojo Jackson wrote:
Tsukino Stareine wrote:

Your fits are terrible for pve. Short range means you will burn yourself out of cap getting to each rat with mwd on almost full time and medium drones being shot up all the time unless you only deploy them onto things you're already next to...

If you didn't notice the Gnosis has enough drone bay for one set of med and on set of light. I thought people understand it even if I don't put the 5 light in the drone bay ... my fault *g*.
And the range is absolut fine. Most level 3 missions don't need anythink above 30km anyway. And if you didn't read it .. I named it LEVEL 3 FIT! Cap is no problem even if you activate the MWD frequently. Fly some amarr ships and you will learn how to manage your cap ;).

Tsukino Stareine wrote:

This is a real fit:

[Gnosis, test]
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II

10MN Afterburner II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Dread Guristas Large Shield Booster
Republic Fleet Shield Boost Amplifier
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II

720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion M
720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion M
720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion M
720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion M
720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion M
[empty high slot]

Medium Core Defense Capacitor Safeguard I
Medium Projectile Locus Coordinator I
Medium Projectile Ambit Extension I


Garde II x2
Hobgoblin II x5

22+42 range with the 290 burst tank means everything is safe and easy. Totals 497 DPS at 21km and around 450 at 37km garde range. Furthest feasible engagement range is around 45km but best to be within 40 for optimal damage.

Now reason why artillery: this fit doesnt work with any other weapon type since the active shield fit means very little cpu left for weapons.

Realy? This is a terrible slow setup for Level 3 missions. And even for ratting it's terrible slow.
4 gyros + 2 TE might look cool in EFT, ingame 3+3 is MUCH better and faster!
720mm do have a cool alpha .. but wast of cycle time if you alpha a 500 hp frig for 3000 *g*. And as soon as they are at 10km or less you don't hit them anymore.

Short:
- most level 3 mission don't need range above 30km which you can reach with Autocanons
- high alpha against level 3 ships is massive overkill
- sentrys ?? against what ?? I know only 1 level 3 storryline where you fight against battleships
- Faction booster + boost amp ... this two mods cost more then the hole ship. As long as you don't realy know what you do => FAIL as you will be ganged within hours ;)

If you attack other with "Your fits are terrible for pve." you should at last try to bring some real fits and no troll stuff.


It just sounds like you don't know how to pve effectively...

TE will be nerfed in about a week, 3rd TE after nerf will give so little it won't be worth it. Currently 3rd TE is questionable already and is only used on VERY high falloff ships like the mach.

Learn to separate your guns, sure it's easy just to group them up and blap things but it's far from optimal when using high alpha weapon systems like artillery and missiles.

At 10km or less you use drones, I thought that was a given.

Most level 3 missions that are worth doing like extravaganza and vengeance have spawns regularly over 50km away and in the case of angel extra 2nd and last room there are some even 70km+ away. 30km is also in deep falloff for autocannons meaning you do less than half of your "EFT DPS" at that range. Artillery will hit for almost full damage at 30km.

Sentries aren't only used against battleships, you stick a bouncers out they will shoot out to 60km+ and can easily pop small things on approach.

Faction booster costs 20m and you can happily downgrade the amp to a meta and it will drop your tank down to 278 and if you REALLY want to be cheap you can use a meta booster as well which takes tank down to 205. Seeing as this is a unique ship and is pretty resistant against ganking, I don't see why you shouldnt fit at least a faction booster on it.

Art of Explosions